AMoC vs. Blink Strikes as SV Hunter

[Deleted]

Hello community,

i just got my 2p bonus and startet playing SV in SoO. I was wonder if AMoC might be the better choice for SV hunter since its damage got increased by 40% with the latest patch. On the other hand you cant reset its CD anymore, what are you thoughts on that?

[Glurp]

aMoC is generally better than Blink Strikes as Survival. Sim it for your character to make sure.

[Deleted]

aMoC is definitely better than Blink Strikes as Survival.

Any sims to confirm this? Pretty sure I've seen every hunter rolling with blink strikes even as SV. Only place where I could see AMOC pulling ahead is on Garrosh with multiple 20% phases.

[Roshar]

Any sims to confirm this? Pretty sure I've seen every hunter rolling with blink strikes even as SV. Only place where I could see AMOC pulling ahead is on Garrosh with multiple 20% phases.

Sims of my character definitely puts AMoC far ahead of BS for survival. The only place where I use BS instead of AMoC is Immerseus. It's AmoC + TotH which gives me the highest DPS in my gear (556 ilvl).

[dzidek]

FD sims +7093.35 DPS with Blink Strikes for me. And most top hunters use BS instead of AMoC.

-edit-
A simmed also my friend hunter with 550 ilvl. And for her sims +768DPS with amoc instead of BS. I have 563.

[Deleted]

FD sims +7093.35 DPS with Blink Strikes for me. And most top hunters use BS instead of AMoC.

exaclty. Rogerbrown for example is using BS over AmoC for survival, thats why im kinda confused.

edit: he also uses Fervor instead of TotH

[Glurp]

Any sims to confirm this? Pretty sure I've seen every hunter rolling with blink strikes even as SV. Only place where I could see AMOC pulling ahead is on Garrosh with multiple 20% phases.

My first post was honestly worded badly as it could change between characters, however I don't see why Blink Strikes would pull ahead even with specific gear since neither talents are effected by weapon damage. Possibly with myself being an Engineer the Synapse Springs make aMoC slightly better but it shouldn't be enough to change the outcome. If you don't know how to Sim yourself I'll be happy to do it for you.

[Deleted]

FD sims +7093.35 DPS with Blink Strikes for me. And most top hunters use BS instead of AMoC.

-edit-
A simmed also my friend hunter with 550 ilvl. And for her sims +768DPS with amoc instead of BS. I have 563.

if you sim a 7k difference is because you specced AmoC and you didn't even put it on the priority list.

AMoC is better as long as you can get full benefit from it, not losing ticks or uses during a fight. On an earlier thread in this forums there are log comparisons that shows that "at worst" AMoC deals 35-40% more damage than BS, and most of the times it is over 50%. Thats not factoring on the focus cost or the opportunity cost of it, but it is not likely that 3 globals and 180 focus on a 6 min fight can make up for such a large gap.

Also just armoring some1 from a top guild and saying " he is using X, so X is better", is just silly. These people pick the talent which is better in a specific boss with a specific strategy, and many times it may not be the best guideline talent or the best simming talent.

Also as SV all of the lvl 60 and 75 talents are so close (even lynx rush sims as only 1-3k dps loss depending on setup) that you will see top hunters or top ranks combining all kind of talents (DB+AMoC, DB+BS, ToTH+AmoC,ToTH+BS, etc) and getting very similar results. The dps differences on SV boils down to lucky procc streaks, be it from the 2 pieces + ToTH or from the 4piece. The 4piece bonus alone makes a lot more difference than any possible talent choice.

[Glurp]

The 4piece bonus alone makes a lot more difference than any possible talent choice.

Agreed on that, however it still doesn't mean that proper talent choices won't increase your damage, regardless of your 4set procs.


Also from SimCraft, just to rule out any sort of RNG from cloak/meta/trinket RNG.

aMoC: 10049 DPS
Claw (non BS): 9275 DPS
Total: 19,324

Claw (with BS): 13,878 DPS

Difference: 5446 in favor of aMoC.


EDIT:

I personaly can not play crows without fervor , its too clunky otherwise, on the other hand blinks + thrill is something you dont have to think about since its all passive so i can see why its default option for alot of hunters

We're talking about which is better, not which requires less brain power to use.

[Bluesftw]

I personaly can not play crows without fervor , its too clunky otherwise, on the other hand blinks + thrill is something you dont have to think about since its all passive so i can see why its default option for alot of hunters

[Libertarian]

aMoC is definitely better than Blink Strikes as Survival.

This is not true in all cases

[dzidek]

if you sim a 7k difference is because you specced AmoC and you didn't even put it on the priority list. (...)

You're absolutely right, my bad. After correcting this FD sims me + 960 dps with AMoC. But this is +0.34% difference in dps, which only confirms your words.

[Deleted]

I personaly can not play crows without fervor , its too clunky otherwise, on the other hand blinks + thrill is something you dont have to think about since its all passive so i can see why its default option for alot of hunters

I think Frevor + AmoC only pays of at the start of a fight, so you can start with BA+SS+Explo+AmoC instanly, which gives you a slight dps lead compared to TotH. But overall TotH should ouscale Frevor a lot since you can just simply pool you focus for the 2nd use of AmoC with having all other DoTs already stacked on the boss. TotH gives you more than 100focus since you fire more than 5 arcane shots per 30seconds.

[Aertea]

How do you sim the extra attacks your pet gets in a fight due to the "blink" aspect of blink strikes?

Most fights aren't tank'n'spank. In the few straight single target situations AMoC will come out very slightly ahead, but in most practical cases you will likely be better off with BS.

[Deleted]

How do you sim the extra attacks your pet gets in a fight due to the "blink" aspect of blink strikes?

Most fights aren't tank'n'spank. In the few straight single target situations AMoC will come out very slightly ahead, but in most practical cases you will likely be better off with BS.

you can turn upside down that argument pretty easy: how do you sim the extra DPS that your pet loses when she is not in attack range and BS is on CD? you gain pet uptime and damage when speccing on BS when switching to a target that is far away. But you lose more dps when the pet is coming back to your main target and the blink perk is on CD. The blink portion is a very very minor perk now with such a big cd.

Anyway, what is true is that BS is a lot more reliable talent in most of the fights this tier, as even if a hunter specced BS deals 2-3% less damage it is a 100% controled damage source (apart from pet issues), against AMoC, which deals more damage, but is not always available when needed. IF you are tasked on burning down a certain add which spawn is not 100% timed, you will do a better job with BS. the same argument can be made of fervor, which is overall less dps than ToTH, but is damage on demand, which in many cases will be more useful even if you end doing less damage overall.

[Glurp]

How do you sim the extra attacks your pet gets in a fight due to the "blink" aspect of blink strikes?

Most fights aren't tank'n'spank. In the few straight single target situations AMoC will come out very slightly ahead, but in most practical cases you will likely be better off with BS.

If you're using Blink Strikes then you SHOULD have your pet on a target fulltime instead of assisting you.

[Matru]

My FD sims shows amoc + thrill as a 7k dps increase over blink + thrill.
This gives a 2.4% dps increase at my gear lvl, which is 564 (hc wep).

[Azortharion]

Not sure what everyone is linking their FD/SimCraft sims for. Obviously you don't have the same gear so it seems silly.

Just sim it for yourself, 10k+ iterations to make sure.. And double-triple-quadruple-check all results as SimC has been buggy for me recently.. (Namely in terms of DPET)

[Voshod]

Blink strikes = sustained damage
Crows = burst damage
When you guys are linking sims, are they patchwerk sims? Because most of the fights in SoO are not patchwerk style and require target switching or have several bosses like protectors, where sustained overall damage is better than a burst on a single target. Sims are good and all, but in reality perfect crows are probably not going to happen and blink strikes will win out.

If you're using Blink Strikes then you SHOULD have your pet on a target fulltime instead of assisting you.

This is just bad

[Glurp]

This is just bad

Why would you spec a talent that increases the pet your damage does and then not have your pet on a target full time. That's just stupid.