Last edited by anaxie; 2013-09-24 at 09:33 PM.
Well at least you didnt need super requirements for that HP as tank in TBC. People just wanted you to be alright geared not newly dinged with half blue and half green with 2 BoE epics.
I'm not saying Gearscore or Ilvl is all that bad, but people expect to much. I've seen great geared people with shit dps. Heck I've seen a guy with heroic ToT gear and avg ilvl of around 545-550 and he was complete crap, using TW on trash and doing 80k average dps. But then again, we need an addon or feature that we can activate and record our dummy dps or something similar. Would be better to get an 490ilvl with decent dps then an 530 full timeless with below tank dps.
OT I also agree asking for 535ilvl for flexi isn't a good idea. You're either gonna be asking for people who need an item or two or someone with completely full timeless gear and someone with full timeless gear might have shitty stats on their items and not able to perform any good. He could have 15% exp and hit rating as melee, or perhaps 5% hit as a spellcaster. Perhaps un-gemmed and enchanted.
Their raid their rules, simple as that. Nobody is forcing you to join that run. Make your own run with low requirements that will attract those in free 496 gear with no clue of their class/spec nor tactics. Make sure to write a trip report about how that went.
It is stupid, the ilvls you have doesn't make you a good player. My dk for exemple, he's my alt and has 537 ilvls and I did not even raid normal ToT, did not raid normal siege or even flex. All I did was the world bosses and the first LFR of SoO once, but I got lucky to get 3 loots from Ordos already. My main, a ele shaman, I have cleared normal ToT, I have cleared flex and done every LFR wings and I only have 531 ilvls. So pretty much anyone can reach that ilvl without even trying. Earlier in flex, that priest was our 3rd best healer out of the 6 (we went with 25 people) and he got kicked after we wiped once to Norushen because they found out he was only 518. Because a few people made some stupid mistakes they started kicking everyone below 530 ilvls. This is really sad...
there is an addon called oQueue. not sure why more people havent heard of it.
there are always flex groups being made, most of them 500-515 ilvl reqs(completely reasonable numbers).
Originally Posted by tkjnz
It's not fucking stupid. It says quite a bit frankly. If I'm trying to farm flex then I don't want to carry people through it. I want people that will just get in there and do their shit and get it done. ESPECIALLY since flex scales per person. If I see some DPS join with like 450k HP then I know it's mathematically improbable that he's going to pull his own weight and keep the run smooth for everyone.
This game boils down to math. You've got a maximum potential cap directly correlated to your gear. There's no getting around that.
Pug leaders are looking for people to carry them.
You are confused because you think you are running Pug in order to get your own loot.
If you need anything from the instance you are pugging, you are not desirable.
Does this make sense to you yet?
This is normal practice. People with 5\10hc want 8\10hc raid - because if PUG is gathering for 8 HM's it will kill like 3-4. And 5\10hc raid want 8\10hc people - because they could be boosted and lowskilled, but amount of gear and progress will overwrite this.
Thats why 80% of raids dont even start - people prefer not to wipe, but to yell in OG\SW for hours and go sleep then.
- - - Updated - - -
While pug raiders are looking for raid to carry them too, indeed this is true.
I was a raid leader for a long time up to wotlk. If I can't find a group/raid for something I make my own.
Last week I made a group for ToT normal. I was at 505ilvl and I was asking for 500ilvl. Many people who joined were 510+, some even 530. We killed two bosses with no wipes and couldn't get past the third. It was not the lack of DPS, but people being clueless of what they need to do, so the high ilvl wasn't helping. People were not DPSing the possesed troll, not moving from stuff on ground, healer failing to heal raid, etc.
Then the 'blame' part started "lol this guy has no gems/enchants" (it was shaman being 1st-2nd on DPS). I also inspected one tank, noticing he had 520ilvl with a LOT of PvP gear >.>
Oh well, 2 bosses are better than none
If I will not get into Flex this week, I will make my own asking for 510, even if I kill Immersus there is still a chance I will get a piece of loot. A chance at loot is always better than no chance at loot.
PM me weird stuff :3
The mentality is jaded.
I was running LFR SoO on my Warrior tank - a measely 498 ilvl with about 520k hp unbuffed.
Afte about 3 wipes on the 2nd boss (due to people nuking more than one boss at a time even though spoonfed the tactics) we started our 4th attempt.
10 seconds into the pull the other (monk) tank died, was CR'ed then died again instantly (thinking wasn't in Ox stance).
With great thanks to the healers and a few stacks of Determination, I managed to solo tank it and clear the boss.
Then, idiots started body pulling vast swathes of Sha trash, after 3 more wipes we engage the large Sha infront of the mine entrance, I tell people to stack on me, no one does.
Then chat fills with 'lets get a tank who has more HP than a caster'.
Two people pointed out I handled Protectors with skill, but I pretty much ragequit.
Sorry but that's not true at all. I remember the first week of flex on my dk, my ilvl was 524 and there was that other frost dk in full heroic ToT gear and I was barely a few k dps behind him overall. And when i got to lvl 90 on my hunter, I was 494 ilvl and I was beating dps with 20-30 more ilvls in ToT during the last month before 5.4 and I would end up being in the top 3 dps for most of the fights.
A skilled player is still better, if you know what you are doing, know when to pop your cds, know how to avoid taking unnecessary damage, it will help a lot more than a bit of hp.
Pretty much.
Believe it or not, but even as a raider with 540 ilevel, I still need loot from flex, especially trinkets+tier.
So when I look for pugs with 530+ ilevel, I'm looking for other raiders in the same boat who know the fights so I can clear a wing in under an hour without having to spend 5 minutes per boss going over strats. Maybe it's just me, but I tend to have more fun speed running through a place and seeing how fast I can clear it versus wiping multiple times on a boss.
I'm not sure why people who have such high standards are getting so much flak in this thread. I was just in a flex pug last week that had a 515 requirement on my alt mage. Apparently they'd wiped to Immerseus three times before I joined and wiped another three more times before I gave up and left. I'm just not interested in repeating that particular experience again.
Bullshit unless you have a million gold to blow on crafted items in AH.
Not to mention the quality of gear on timeless isle is affected by the stats randomly produced. You're not going to meet potential as an elemental shaman if the only things created from the tokens are spirit/crit. You could have a 520 ilevel of this sort of gear and still only put out 70k.
Why are people so superlative when it comes to this gearing system. Timeless isle is good for one thing - getting you into the latest LFR. That's it.
A few months of running that and you're going to have your gear better itemised and be able to pull your weight in proper content, but not until then; and you will still need a guild as no one wants to take anyone whose only done LFR.
So in reality, I'm likely going to have to wait until the next expansion to raid again.
WoW is still pretty painful to come back to after an extended break, particularly as dps, unless you're happy with LFR content or have made some decent friends who might be willing to take a chance on you.
But given how many people have left, friends lists aren't what they used to be.
People don't understand, yes gear != skill, but the average 540 geared player is better than the average 510 geared player. Yes, gear is a bad indicator, but it's the only easy indicator we have. For example, if I were to create a flex raid next week, here is what I wish I could ask for:
(500ilvl AND 3 normal clears on main) OR (515ilvl AND ((wave 20 in endless PG for the appropriate spec AND has read tactics) OR (wave 40 in endless PG for the appropriate spec AND is willing to listen to tactics)) OR (530ilvl and 3 flex clears on that character) OR (500 ilvl AND previous hardcore raiding achievement when it was relevant AND willing to listen)
Is that more fair to everyone? Sure. Are the logistics realistically managable? Nope.
Just put together a group for flex requiring 540+ ilvl and 8/14 normal. Cleared both P1 and P2 in 55 minutes. I regret nothing.
Average ilvl was probably 550 in the group. So smooth, so fast.
Unless I know a person personally and know he is good I will for sure start asking for 540+ and normal clear equal to flex in future weeks.
If that makes me a douche, fine. But as I see it, people should pug with players at their own gear levels. The 510ers can play with 510ers, 530s with 530s, 550s with 550s etc.
When you do flex on 4-5 characters, you dont really wanna wipe for 3 hours, you want to get in, get loot, get done.