LFR and the bad players union

[Moistmuffins]

Maybe if you tried actual constructive criticism you won't get booted? Folks tend to be more amenable towards folks who aren't asshats when it comes to feedback.

But if he was nice to bad players then he wouldn't be the big bad ass he is now.

[Saffa]

7 million players in the game so of course some are bad some are really bad some are good some are really good and most just get on with it. Who made you dps monitor to comment on someone else's damage anyway? It is not your guild doing the run, it is not an HC pug, it is just LFR that gets along fine without prefects chivvying people along. As long as tanks tank, healers heal and most of the dps do a reasonable amount of damage there is no lose. Oh apart from big mouth bullies who want to cause trouble. Most I go into are fine, tanks talk to each other a bit and we all know roughly what to do. The spoiler is someone like OP, can't keep his mouth shut. When I first did one, I was 34k dps. With gear, it's now 94k. If you are so perfect what are you doing in them anyway, stick to your guild HC raids.

[Deleted]

I dunno man, I usually give tons of people shit in lfr for being bad. And I barely ever get booted. Altho usually helps that I'm the not retarded tank/healer or doing 20% of all damage, so people know that if they attempt to boot me, they'll be looking at a long night.

The point is that in wow's current state, 30k is pretty much abyssmal. That's what I could pull near the end of cataclysm. Especially when you consider the barrier for entry to ToT is 480 ilvl, the least you can expect people to do is 80k as a bare minimum.
In Siege, that's ilvl 500, that should be a 100k as a bare minimum.
If you're doing below that, you're either not actively trying to contribute to the group, or you have some serious down syndrome. It's shocking how many bad players you encounter in LFR, really. Like boomkins not using Moonfire/sunfire at all, or not using starsurge. Then you see rogues not using poisons, fury warriors not using slam. Also saw a fire mage here and there that didn't use pyroblast.
The thing is, offering these people constructive criticism is often a wasted effort. If they were willing to learn, they would have already read a guide here and there that would hand them that info on a silver platter. More often than not, they'll say "I pay too, I should see all contant." and at that point it is no longer a game, more a terrible quality action movie.

[Sithalos]

It would be a pretty big union then, since roughly 80% of the people that run LOLFR are beyond god awful.

[Glorious Leader]

But if he was nice to bad players then he wouldn't be the big bad ass he is now.

Like all the bad asses of yor he comes on forums after and shared his war stories about the time he put that shitty lfr nub in his place.

[RickJamesLich]

It would be a pretty big union then, since roughly 80% of the people that run LOLFR are beyond god awful.

The union is vast and it does have the power to boot anyone they want, from what I have seen.

[TheBigPapi]

OP your story sums up when a good player gets frustrated when trying to run LFR. LFR raids have increasingly devolved into a group of overly sensitive bads, AFKers, and a few people carrying the way just to get things done and get the hell out of there. Problem is, this is a casual oriented game and there's plenty of people who simply don't care that their dps, heals or tanking are awful while in LFR and will give you the ole F-U boot if you make the mistake of calling them out on it. Now with flex, there may very well be less n less good players running LFR and I'm sure its going to fall to the depths of raiding hell where every fight will need 10 determination and each LFR wing will take about 3 hours to get through when everyone is doing 50k dps. Curiously enough, I've been in a couple of these 3 hour shitfests on alts and a majority of the people stick around til the end which makes me wonder how come many people claim they don't have time to raid but can sit through 3 hours in just 1 wing. Anyways, my advice would be to just keep away from the failfest and let people who run LFR enjoy their queues and reliance upon determination to get bosses down. Flex isnt hard and groups are up on most servers. If you're server is dead, I highly recommend Openraid to find yourself a good group to get flex done each week. That is, if you aren;t already raiding with a guild.

[RickJamesLich]

But if he was nice to bad players then he wouldn't be the big bad ass he is now.

Why does trying to help finish the run automatically mean you are a bad ass?

[TheBigPapi]

The union is vast and it does have the power to boot anyone they want, from what I have seen.

Union: "Its our game now and we'll get rid of anyone who tries to correct us or take it away from us. Just check the forums, THIS GAME IS BETTER THAN EVER I TELL YA!"

[Moistmuffins]

Why does trying to help finish the run automatically mean you are a bad ass?

Trying to help finish the run would be by trying to help said players improve to advance more people into raids/raiding and improve the overall run you're in. Being a "bad ass" (using quotes this time as you seem to have missed the sarcasm) is what you're doing by putting down another player then coming onto the forums to display to all the other "bad asses" how cool you are for telling that scrub how scrubby he is.

[apollo729]

The main problem I have is normal or heroic raiders in LFR acting like they are too cool for school. Low DPS isn't really an issue, what is an issue is people not doing the fights right, 2nd boss in the 1st half of MSV is a prime example, no one uses the stones any more and then everyone cries when they die and blame the healers for not healing through the tanks not doing the fight right.

Don't worry guys, healing can fix it.

[RickJamesLich]

Union: "Its our game now and we'll get rid of anyone who tries to correct us or take it away from us. Just check the forums, THIS GAME IS BETTER THAN EVER I TELL YA!"

LOL, don't let the union see you posting this.

- - - Updated - - -

Trying to help finish the run would be by trying to help said players improve to advance more people into raids/raiding and improve the overall run you're in. Being a "bad ass" (using quotes this time as you seem to have missed the sarcasm) is what you're doing by putting down another player then coming onto the forums to display to all the other "bad asses" how cool you are for telling that scrub how scrubby he is.

I think you could argue the union is more bad ass then I am tho at that point, they are the ones with all the power after all.

[TheBigPapi]

The main problem I have is normal or heroic raiders in LFR acting like they are too cool for school. Low DPS isn't really an issue, what is an issue is people not doing the fights right, 2nd boss in the 1st half of MSV is a prime example, no one uses the stones any more and then everyone cries when they die and blame the healers for not healing through the tanks not doing the fight right.

Don't worry guys, healing can fix it.

Many times, the person doing 50k dps has no interest in doing the fight correctly or even bothers to learn it. open your mouth, and you're an elitist dick that gets cried at by every white knight and mommy in the raid followed by kicked. Same goes for the dps queued as healer or the healer barely doing any hps. Speaking up automatically makes you "elitist" and all the little noobies band together and kick the person out. LFR raiders are like some kind of guerilla group that take control of the raid and kick out anyone that calls them out on their inability to play their class, do the fight, or both.

[Shelly]

Let's see, you called someone out in a rude manner in group chat.

Yeah, I'd have kicked you too. You're a drama magnet and a liability.

Always remember one of the primary rules of management: Praise in public, punish in private.

[Moistmuffins]

snip

See this is the point I'm trying to get across to you guys. If you try and help them in a constructive manner without being condescending you probably wouldn't get kicked and they might listen. But apparently it's difficult to be civil these days. (And don't think I'm defending bad players with poor attitudes either, just don't be surprised when you get kicked because of your bad attitude no matter how well you're playing.)

[RickJamesLich]

Many times, the person doing 50k dps has no interest in doing the fight correctly or even bothers to learn it. open your mouth, and you're an elitist dick that gets cried at by every white knight and mommy in the raid followed by kicked. Same goes for the dps queued as healer or the healer barely doing any hps. Speaking up automatically makes you "elitist" and all the little noobies band together and kick the person out. LFR raiders are like some kind of guerilla group that take control of the raid and kick out anyone that calls them out on their inability to play their class, do the fight, or both.

Yeah this is what I find many times too. People always say "talk to them in private" from my experience they won't even respond if you do this lol. Essentially LFR is set up so that if you know it's going to fail, you can't say anything or you'll get booted, so you just gotta deal with the wipes. The brotherhood of those that died in the fire has obtained too much power IMO.

[hulkgor]

People don't like to be told what to do, or that they're performance is under par. Plain and simple. Avoid the hassle by pointing those things out, just endure the run and carry it as you can, or just leave and save yourself the grief.

It also comes down to your tone. No matter how good you are, if you are blatantly rude or aggressive towards another player, i'll join the 'vote kick' bandwagon, don't really care about your dps. If you're correct and polite in your approach, you won't get hassled\kicked out.

[TheBigPapi]

See this is the point I'm trying to get across to you guys. If you try and help them in a constructive manner without being condescending you probably wouldn't get kicked and they might listen. But apparently it's difficult to be civil these days. (And don't think I'm defending bad players with poor attitudes either, just don't be surprised when you get kicked because of your bad attitude no matter how well you're playing.)

You seem to have this idea that its easy trying to help people over the internet. You have any idea how many times I've been cussed at by some noob when I've offered to help them on their dps? This ridiculous notion that people who play this game are so open and willing to receive tips or constructive criticism hasn't been relevant since BC, maybe Wrath. The lack of accountability and social interaction in this game has left a majority of these unskilled players feeling entitled to content/loot and hostile to anyone saying otherwise. Comment on their dps or heals or tanking, even with genuine interest in helping them, and you'll get a prompt "go F yourself elitist prick" and find yourself either kicked from LFR or berated followed by ignore so you cant respond. I too was once a noob back in 2006 and was helped out by kind guildies and would often talk openly in trade or just between people throwing around ideas for classes and builds. That kind of cooperative learning is far too rare in WoW these days. All we have left is trolling and new players asking obvious questions. Heaven help you if you offer help. Implying theyre doing something wrong when they can play this game however the hell they want when they pa the same $15 a month, will only get you the full fury of a scrub scorn.

[Coldkil]

LFR before Flex was widely used by a lot of people who didn't have time to do full runs with alts or to get valor capped easily. With time and new gear the situation will become better, but as an organized raiding guild we sorted out to dedicate a night to flex and just come with whatever we want to get the gear and valor.

I have no need for LFR, i run it with the tank just because someone asks me for an insta queue so i help if needed, otheriwse i would skip it entirely. To cap valor is much easier to just run heroic scenario and dungeon.

[Primaliron]

Many times, the person doing 50k dps has no interest in doing the fight correctly or even bothers to learn it. open your mouth, and you're an elitist dick that gets cried at by every white knight and mommy in the raid followed by kicked. Same goes for the dps queued as healer or the healer barely doing any hps. Speaking up automatically makes you "elitist" and all the little noobies band together and kick the person out. LFR raiders are like some kind of guerilla group that take control of the raid and kick out anyone that calls them out on their inability to play their class, do the fight, or both.

I'm sure you've never failed at anything in your life, perhaps because you've never done anything challenging, like trying to teach someone how to do better?

I called you out. Is this making you take what I say seriously? Of course it isn't. It doesn't work in raids or anywhere else in life. If all the energy spent raging about bad players was spent helping them then LFR would be a cakewalk. Sure you'd get a bad one now and then, but you will see them far less frequently, because those players you help will pass on the good information. Spirals can be upwards and not merely down.

And if you don't have the balls to take on such a task I suggest you find a nice little guild you can hide in from the real challenges of life.