Nerf arms warriors thread

[Pua]

I guess my question to the general population and not to you specifically on this is why are warriors suddenly getting the hate for being able to pop D cds and dps cds together? Even in 5.3 where ferals were stupidly strong everyone attributed it to the mobility and offheals, while they could go just as full retard as a warrior can now while being nearly immune to dmg. Probably because no right minded war or feral would stack 19 def and dps cds together; I think people are seeing double warriors in 2s going stupid as possible and not countering it properly then complaining.

At a guess, you're probably onto something here. I would imagine that in a few weeks, assuming Blizzard don't gut the class, people will just get used to warriors and start dealing with them. Because it's early in the season, people are being blown up by a class that they simply aren't prepared for because they've been poor for the entirety of the previous season.

Very poor.

For my money, despite all the complaints, I still think hunters are more out of whack than warriors are. As previously stated by someone else, though (sorry, I forget who), players are just used to it now.

An argument can be made the other way, though. If a warrior chooses to pop all of his offensives and supplement it with shield wall, that is a choice he is making. What happens if the opposing team survives his burst? They can now turn around and attack the warrior knowing he doesn't have his major defensive cooldown. He made a sacrifice and now is suffering because of it.

I think that's a fair argument but, from my perspective as a warrior specifically, the game in WotLK was much better. There were ways of going defensive without losing all your damage, depending on who you were fighting, and clever tricks that skilled players used to beat lesser skilled... And largely independent of gear.

Unrelenting Assault allowed you to go sword and board and still dish out decent damage.
Shield Slam could be used to cancel out mage shields.
Retaliation allowed you to deal with Evasion.
Rend could be used to stop stealthers just resetting fights.

To me, that was all skill-based depth that has simply been gutted out of the class and no real recompense offered. We need a talent tier to make our mobility passable in a world of Death's Advance or Pursuit of Justice, while our self-healing talents are worse than what every other class has at baseline. Second Wind and Blood Craze were a far better combination with Enraged Regeneration, a combination that was never overpowered, yet get crucified coming into MoP.

Clearly, not everyone will agree with my commentary here. But the above is essentially defensive choices warriors could make, both in and out of combat, that were useful under different situations. Now... Just press your button if you need something.

It just makes me sad to remember what was, and then be forced to live with what is.

Also, I believe defensive cooldowns (and offensive for that matter) stack multiplicatively, not additively, as you suggested in your example of a warrior taking 85% reduced damage. Another side argument.

You're quite right, my mistake. Was hastily making a point which, roughly speaking, is probably still valid.

Just.

[Flaks]

You're quite right, my mistake. Was hastily making a point which, roughly speaking, is probably still valid.

Just.

And a point that I very much agree with. The problem is that Blizzard doesn't. They might say that they do want to reduce CC or burst or too many buttons but they've been saying this since WotLK all the while making things worse. Right now, all you can really expect is to have ALL classes have some form everything instead of only one class or another having this tool or the other like it used to be (and was the way I personally preferred as well).

I do personally love reactive play. Even now, when I'm in it to have fun, I always play reactively against other players in duels. But when I know the other player knows his shit then I really have no chance but to go HAM and blow everything first; because apparently that's how Blizzard likes the game: who can blow however many cds first and fastest generally wins.

I will say though that Shield Slam barely if ever succeeded in actually dispelling anything in WotLK. Trust me, I tried. So much and it would work not even 5% of the time it was that bad.

[Vojka]

As silly as this may sound, I think there was quite a huge shift of players in cataclysm,
lots of veterans quit while newer players subbed in, and at the time warriors were a poor class (besides season 9).

so alot of new players got used to the fact warriors were a pretty poor pvp class, once we are actually strong, these players do not know how to deal with warriors. while i do agree warriors were flat out overpowered in season 12. I dont feel that warriors are overpoweref this season, the only thing that may be nerfed for us is defensive stance again, and even then that may just be because no one really has full grievous yet.

[Hand Banana]

I think that's a fair argument but, from my perspective as a warrior specifically, the game in WotLK was much better. There were ways of going defensive without losing all your damage, depending on who you were fighting, and clever tricks that skilled players used to beat lesser skilled... And largely independent of gear.

WOTLK imo is the best iteration of the warrior class.
-UA made it crucial to get warriors off you; the damage wasn't jaw-dropping but it was the 50% MS and further dmg/healing reduc from UA that made warriors a threat.
-Defensive stance / Sword and board had a point. Shield block stopped a set amount of damage that was actually a good amount, revenge spam could drop other melee who were on you, shield slam could dispel, shield bash gave a longer interrupt and a daze-type slow. Nowadays sword and board doesn't even exist and before 5.4 it was something you wanted to get out of asap soon as your SW or SR were done.
-Self healing instead of flat DR. I dont know why they changed us to have shit self-healing and all this DR when we used to have the opposite. Flat DR makes us too strong with healers.

WOTLK warrior was by far the funnest imo, even sitting in roots half the time. The model is just better.

[meathead]

Im not even going to put more effort into this. Im done

good-i love being right

- - - Updated - - -

This is not tbc anymore.
Warrior used to be the class that is easier to kite, and if he gets to u then you are fucked. But these days warriors feel like the class that has the best gap closers

the reason why warriors have gap closers is because casters can hit from 40 yards away.casters also have the same amount or Armour/hit points that a warrior has and casters have instance casts.

did you have a problem with warrior gap closers last season = no.but know you do,why is that?warriors did not get more "gap closers" last patch did they? maybe just maybe the warrior class is hitting hard again,like its supposed to and designed to do.people like you forget stuff like that beacsue more often then not your face rolling a caster class.

since rbgs started back in cata how many season have teams stacked arms warriors.lmfao-im waiting for some dumb reason you will come up with to support teams stacking casters every season.

[Saverem]

Now-a-days I only get to play WoW for a few minutes a day when I do play. I'm enjoying getting on my Warrior and doing a few BGs and maybe arena matches for a bit before I have to do more important stuff (like work on my Jeep, installing 3" lift this week, woo!)

Before 5.4, Warriors were a lot less fun. So I support their OPness, and when Blizz eventually nerfs them (which they will, your tears will eventually reach them) then I'll go back to playing my healer and having fun with him healing everyone around me in BGs for a few minutes a day.


Win/win for me, bitches!

[meathead]

WOTLK imo is the best iteration of the warrior class.
-UA made it crucial to get warriors off you; the damage wasn't jaw-dropping but it was the 50% MS and further dmg/healing reduc from UA that made warriors a threat.
-Defensive stance / Sword and board had a point. Shield block stopped a set amount of damage that was actually a good amount, revenge spam could drop other melee who were on you, shield slam could dispel, shield bash gave a longer interrupt and a daze-type slow. Nowadays sword and board doesn't even exist and before 5.4 it was something you wanted to get out of asap soon as your SW or SR were done.
-Self healing instead of flat DR. I dont know why they changed us to have shit self-healing and all this DR when we used to have the opposite. Flat DR makes us too strong with healers.

WOTLK warrior was by far the funnest imo, even sitting in roots half the time. The model is just better.

going to have to disagree with your wrath comment about warriors.wrath is were things started to go bad for warriors and for wow's pvp as a hole.i hated and i repeat hated going S&B popping shield wall and getting bursted down by pallys and dks threw my cds.yes that crap happened and anyone that knows there ass from a hole in the ground knows im right.warriors were trash compared to most other classes in wrath,hell thats one reason they gave warriors UA, because we were so dam weak.massive buffs and arp is what made warriors viable later in wrath,not warrior game play.

[Verain]

Warriors have a 30second root break and have to have someone nearby to do it, Ferals have constant root break
Warriors have two charges, DK's have two grips which are more effective because you can grip people into CC
Warriors can stay defensive while offensive, so can every other class besdies pallys,priests, and hunters
Warriors have stupid damage, have you even seen a DK on a healer?
Warriors have two pummels, they have to miss out on a snare or root to get
Warriors have two reflects, DKs have AMZ and AMS both of which are better than reflect at stopping damage due to how long they last and how they absorb damage

So your argument is that warrior is definitely weaker than a Feral+DK+Hunter hybrid. I agree, but Fedkunters are pretty rare this season.

[Hand Banana]

going to have to disagree with your wrath comment about warriors.wrath is were things started to go bad for warriors and for wow's pvp as a hole.i hated and i repeat hated going S&B popping shield wall and getting bursted down by pallys and dks threw my cds.yes that crap happened and anyone that knows there ass from a hole in the ground knows im right.warriors were trash compared to most other classes in wrath,hell thats one reason they gave warriors UA, because we were so dam weak.massive buffs and arp is what made warriors viable later in wrath,not warrior game play.

Im not saying warriors were the best in WOTLK. I am saying the model for how warriors worked was the best except the QoL stuff we have now like no stance reqs and S&S reqs. If a hunter rooted me I could switch to sword and board and pop shield block; low cd ability that stopped a good chunk of physical damage, I had a 10 sec cd spell reflect to stop the overpowered caster train, stuff like that. We stuck on targets to damage but most of all "lock down" a target. Constantly switching sword and board for shield bash interrupts, maintaining 50% Ms, overpowering casts for UA, shit like that not mostly mindless damage like now. I remember playing WLD is s8 and my #1 priority was maintaining MS on as many people as possible and interrupting/UA'ing/Stopping people as much as possible, and a well timed bladestorm for kills. Felt so much more skillful than now. A lot more fun even if we weren't as good as we are now.

I also got this way off topic, people can continue to complain about warriors for (somehow) 18 pages when 5.3 ferals and 5.0-5.3 hunters were far more OP then than warriors are now and didn't get nearly this much hate.

[Verain]

I also got this way off topic, people can continue to complain about warriors for (somehow) 18 pages when 5.3 ferals and 5.0-5.3 hunters were far more OP then than warriors are now and didn't get nearly this much hate.

I'm pretty sure the numbers are showing warriors being pretty overrepped. Warriors were ludicrously OP in 5.0, very OP in 5.1. Hunters didn't have that kind of dominance once stampede got fixed, and even in 5.2 (at their peak) weren't on like, all the teams. I don't recall ferals really poking their heads that high up in 5.3 either, but I might have missed something near the end there.

[Cirayne24]

I also got this way off topic, people can continue to complain about warriors for (somehow) 18 pages when 5.3 ferals and 5.0-5.3 hunters were far more OP then than warriors are now and didn't get nearly this much hate.

Hates going to happen all the time. And I remember hate this expac for Locks, Hunters, Ferals, Priests... pretty much everyone except for Monks. Unless your a MW Monk, then rogues hate you no matter what.

[Wow]

For the US servers in the top 50 players for 3v3 there are 3 warriors. In the top 100, 11.

If warriors are that overpowered that immediate nerfs are needed it is not showing up in the rankings. 11/100 is BALANCED.

That would be true if those numbers were right but they're not.

[Hand Banana]

I'm pretty sure the numbers are showing warriors being pretty overrepped. Warriors were ludicrously OP in 5.0, very OP in 5.1. Hunters didn't have that kind of dominance once stampede got fixed, and even in 5.2 (at their peak) weren't on like, all the teams. I don't recall ferals really poking their heads that high up in 5.3 either, but I might have missed something near the end there.

Warriors are also a highly played and generally speaking easier to pick up and play class. Hunters are ferals played a higher level are objectively more difficult but in the end are superior (possibly not now, but in 5.0-5.3 were scary strong). 5.0 hunters were 5.0 warriors on steroids hence there was triple BM r1's for a while. Hunters dont synergize with like ANY casters but were still super highly represented all through till now. Warriors are also very versatile when they are strong; they can work with pretty much any caster or other melee well. When they are weak they are replaceable by pretty much anyone else though so its tough to find a middle ground.

Changes I would do: take 15% off of deep wounds and buff mastery to 75% weapon dmg (maybe up ww or ss or something to keep the pve cleave people happy), make BS disarmable, take 5% off of D stance, change second wind to 1% every second while in combat (all health ranges), take root removal off of intervene and make a new ability 1 min cd that breaks roots.

[Korgoth]

That would be true if those numbers were right but they're not.

because the ladder is static and cant possibly have changed...

[Pua]

going to have to disagree with your wrath comment about warriors.wrath is were things started to go bad for warriors and for wow's pvp as a hole.i hated and i repeat hated going S&B popping shield wall and getting bursted down by pallys and dks threw my cds.yes that crap happened and anyone that knows there ass from a hole in the ground knows im right.warriors were trash compared to most other classes in wrath,hell thats one reason they gave warriors UA, because we were so dam weak.massive buffs and arp is what made warriors viable later in wrath,not warrior game play.

So by "anyone that knows their ass from a hole in the ground", you really mean "anyone that agrees with you"?

Sure, I got burst down during Wrath; but I killed far more DK's and paladins than ever killed me throughout that expansion which, compared with the utter hopelessness of most of Cataclysm and the season just finished, felt so much better to play in. If I lost, I invariably knew exactly why and it almost always equated to the other player (assuming equivalent gear) simply being better than I was. None of this "2v2 isn't balanced" crap, just the cold hard fact that the winning team played the better match.

Warriors were not weak in WotLK, not by any stretch. There were a couple of points where certain classes were much too strong (launch Retribution and DK's), but that didn't turn them into unstoppable monsters that could have killed you whenever they got round to it. You know, like mages in Cataclysm? The fact you describe them as "trash" tells me, quite clearly, that you only consider warriors viable when they are, in fact, overpowered.

And, yes, I've followed a lot of your commentary for a long time.

[stickyjam]

think you'll find most of the people annoyed about warriors are the casters.

warriors just have too much anti caster buttons.

Considering their dmg it would be easiest to nerf these.

1min disrupting shout.
Mass spell reflect replaces spell reflect.

then even if warriors wish to do mongo damage atleast they dont reduce a casters dmg to silly low.

[Flaks]

And, yes, I've followed a lot of your commentary for a long time.

I agree with you for s6-s8.

S5 on the other hand, warriors were the weakest of any class ever in the history of this game bar none. A warrior could hardly break 2k let alone attempt to go for arena master or gladiator for that matter. The class was so utter shit in PvP it was forced to go titan's grip fury and rely on burst that was far behind that of other classes and lacked in every other regard as well.

[Wow]

because the ladder is static and cant possibly have changed...

Those numbers were wrong when you posted them warriors have been high rep since week one of s14. They've been the highest dps rep since the season started and that hasn't changed at any point.

[Prag]

Warriors still aren't even close to the level of retarded that Hunters have reached. "Nerf Warriors" will turn into "Nerf Hunters" in a week or two once MM can get into swing with gear.

[Deleted]

Hunters are under the radar for now, but in a few weeks they will surely regain their spot in the god tier, where they've been the entire expansion.