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  1. #1

    No Man's Sky players thrust Sony's PS4 refund policy back into the spotlight

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...ky-refund-sony

    Sony's digital video game refund policy has been the subject of investigation on more than one occasion. Now, it's come under fire again from angry customers after the release of No Man's Sky.

    Over the course of this week, Eurogamer has been contacted by a raft of disgruntled No Man's Sky players who have tried - and failed - to get a refund from Sony after buying Hello Games' space title from the PlayStation Store.

    There are a number of reasons why some No Man's Sky players demand a refund. People we've spoken to cite everything from crashes to motion sickness as a reason for a refund. There's also the issue that some feel No Man's Sky isn't the game they had expected, based on promotional material such as trailers.

    Sony's PlayStation Store refund policy states that you can cancel a digital content purchase within 14 days from the date of transaction - provided you have not started downloading or streaming it.

    If you have started downloading a game, you can't get a refund "unless the content is faulty".

    Sony's refund policy is in stark contrast to that of Valve, which sells the PC version of No Man's Sky on Steam. Steam gives players a no questions asked refund if the request is made within 14 days of purchase, and the title has been played for less than two hours.

    Here's a collection of stories from Eurogamer readers who have got in touch to express their frustration at Sony.


    Eurogamer reader Blastiel, 35, from Manchester, told Eurogamer he played No Man's Sky for an hour-and-a-half and found it crashed three times in that period. He also feels misled by promotional material he saw on the PlayStation Store.

    Blastiel spoke with a PlayStation customer support rep called Noah to ask for a refund. He says he was told that he was eligible for a refund, but if he did get one, he'd never be able to play No Man's Sky again.

    "The practice Sony is employing is a bit underhanded, to say the least," Blastiel said.

    "I was told I couldn't re-buy it off the store digitally, and I couldn't buy a physical copy because whatever system they employ in the background wouldn't let me run it. They delete the license from your account, and that seems to put a block on it.

    "It's a bit like, if I went into Footlocker and bought a pair of trainers, took them home, found there's a big rip somewhere I hadn't spotted, took them back and they said, you can have a refund, but you can never wear trainers again. It just seems ridiculous."

    Blastiel said he declined to go through with getting a refund because he wants to play No Man's Sky again at some point.

    "I would happily re-buy the game at a later date if it improved, if the features promised were put in, if the crashing was fixed, because these things do get fixed over time," he said.

    "But I didn't really want to get my money back and then never be able to play it again. It just seems counter-productive.

    "It's like they put a gun to my head."


    Roscoe, 31, from Shropshire, told Eurogamer he feels he was lied to by No Man's Sky advertising, and pointed to a Reddit thread that drew attention recently for listing a number of promised features that are absent from the game.

    Roscoe also reported problems with crashes, particularly when trying to use the game's multi-tool stations and warping to a different area of space.

    Like Blastiel, Roscoe was told by a Sony call centre agent that he was entitled to a refund, but he would lose the right to play the game again.

    "I really do like the game, but I feel as though I paid £50 for a game that isn't finished," Roscoe said.

    "But I don't want to give up the right to ever play No Man's Sky again. That seems really extreme to me."

    Paul, 34 from Leeds, tried this week to get a refund from Sony because of crash issues and what he believes was false advertising around multiplayer. Paul's also upset at the dynamic theme included with the digital pre-order. "It's just a static picture in the background," he said, "not very dynamic."

    Paul contacted PlayStation on its support number to ask for a refund, but was told because he had downloaded the game and started playing, he couldn't get one.

    "I then tried mentioning the false advertising but just got told the game was never advertised as multiplayer even though the boxes had the sticker on, and on multiple occasions it was confirmed you could meet other players but it wasn't 'likely' to happen," Paul added.

    "Oh and the promised pre-order dynamic there? Well apparently it is dynamic because of 'the art style', never mind that it just a static background. The phone operator suggested that dynamic themes don't have to move to be dynamic. I kid you not.

    "In short if you want a refund for No Man's Sky, good luck, as it doesn't look likely to happen."


    And finally Mark, from North Wales, asked Sony for a refund after finding No Man's Sky caused him motion sickness.

    "I've occasionally suffered from gaming-induced motion sickness in the past, and it can be incredibly unpleasant and debilitating, Mark said. "At it's worst, you might as well write off the rest of the day and go to bed.

    "I think a combination of things in No Man's Sky are causing it - the unnatural movement acceleration, the narrow FOV - but I think he main culprit is that even when you're standing completely motionless your view is constantly drifting and floating slightly.

    "My current situation means that my gaming budget is limited, and I couldn't afford to have paid £50 for a game that makes me feel ill, so I requested a refund from Sony. I was told I would receive a response within 24 hours. Four days later, a reply arrived, declining my request."

    Mark said he has tried to go back to No Man's Sky, taking tablets in a bid to mitigate the motion sickness, "but on a couple of occasions it's really knocked me sideways".

    Sony's refund policy makes it clear that if a video game is faulty, customers should get their money back. But what defines "faulty"? A few crashes? More than a few crashes? A field of view that causes motion sickness?

    Even harder to define is this issue of false advertising. Should those who feel No Man's Sky does not match expectations set by Sony trailers be entitled to a refund?

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    I asked Sony for a comment on the situation, and a rep responded with a two-part statement.


    The first part deals with technical issues. The Sony rep called on No Man's Sky players who are experiencing issues to report them to Hello Games, which, Sony stressed, is working hard to improve the game.

    It's true that Hello Games has worked to patch up No Man's Sky. In fact the game's first post-launch patch just went live. Sony said an additional patch is expected at the start of next week.

    Here's that portion of the statement:

    We are aware that some players have been experiencing issues whilst playing No Man's Sky. The development team have been working very hard to address these issues and published a patch yesterday which resolved many of the reported bugs.
    For those who continue to experience problems, we would advise in the first instance that they report their issues so that the team are aware and can work to fix them. The team at Hello Games are continuing to monitor the situation, and an additional patch is expected at the start of next week to further improve and address identified bugs.
    Now, onto Sony's refund policy. The company pointed me toward its published refund policy, which we've already discussed. And it promised that those who do get a refund will be able to re-buy and play No Man's Sky again, which suggests Sony needs to send an updated memo out to its customer support staff, if it hasn't done already.

    Here's the statement:

    Players are entitled to receive refunds in line with the published refund policy on PlayStation.com.
    In instances where players receive a refund, they will of course be able to re-purchase the game at later date and play.
    Sony's statement is unlikely to appease the disgruntled No Man's Sky players who have contacted Eurogamer this week. All we've spoken with have reluctantly accepted their fate and dropped their refund requests.

    Mark told the Sony rep who had denied him a refund: "I accept your decision, withdraw my request for a refund and consider this matter now closed. However, you have damaged your relationship with this longtime, loyal customer and I will be a lot more reluctant to give Sony my money in future."
    The Refund policy on all the consoles not just Sony's needs to change. There mite as well not be a refund policy.

    I personally tried to get a refund for the Division Season Pass and was refused the refund. Even tho I requested it long before any of its content had released. This policy is one reason I still buy Hardcopy's of many games, so if I hate it I can return it or trade it in.

    What are your thoughts on this?
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  2. #2
    and THIS is why on games like this i hold off about a week or two

  3. #3
    I have a PS4 and I didn't even know this was a thing. How is this actually a thing?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Sassafrass View Post
    I have a PS4 and I didn't even know this was a thing. How is this actually a thing?
    Yep its been a thing since the ps3 got its digital store.

    The Refund policy on all 3 consoles is non-existent.
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  5. #5
    Yeah good luck. I had my character in The Division stuck below the world and nothing could fix it beyond starting the game fresh. I spent two months trying to get a psn refund including sending video to Ubisoft which they confirmed was a fault, sending a copy of said confirmation to Sony and then they simply stopped responding entirely.

    From what i understand they specifically tell CS employees 'keep them running in circles till they quit bothering us" to the point they have altered PSN item descriptions after the fact to try and get out of refunding peoples purchases and only in one case where the person took a picture before they changed it with a timestamp were they backed into a corner to actually refund the game.

  6. #6
    Well, in my opinion, Steam's refund policy is beyond amazing and there is little that can match that.

    I am not defending the state of No Man's Sky but if people actually waited until release then they could have read about it/watched videos and steered well clear if those issues were important to them. Even before launch a lot of the issues had already come to light. I think the consumer should actually research to get a better feel of a game and to some degree lessen the chance of getting screwed over.

  7. #7
    Sony sounds worse than EA.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Spikeyshadow View Post
    Well, in my opinion, Steam's refund policy is beyond amazing and there is little that can match that.
    Origin's refund policy is generally, but not always, better than Steam's, and they've had it for longer.

  9. #9
    Deleted
    I am glad this game is a failure.

    Now I can laugh at all those guys who told me that 60$ for an indie game is fine lol.

  10. #10
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    People are just unhappy with thier purchase so they are wining for a refund. You cant buy a game from a store and play it and then go back and make some BS reason up and get your money back so why should you be able to do it when you buy it digital. Next time maybe they want just jump into buying a game and wait for some professional reviews and user reviews. And nothing about this game will give you motion sickness thats some made up BS right there.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ji-tae View Post
    I am glad this game is a failure.
    It's the biggest launch of the year on Steam so far and it's the second biggest launch on PS4 since the console released.

    I'm not sure that qualifies as a failure.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    It's the biggest launch of the year on Steam so far and it's the second biggest launch on PS4 since the console released.

    I'm not sure that qualifies as a failure.
    ohh

    you are confusion financial success with a game that is actually good.

    Of course this game is not a failure in terms of how much money sony and the devs made. They freaking love money. I love money too. I literally would lie to everyone on earth and release a game like this too if I get a lot of money for it lol. Screw morals

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Spikeyshadow View Post
    Well, in my opinion, Steam's refund policy is beyond amazing and there is little that can match that.

    I am not defending the state of No Man's Sky but if people actually waited until release then they could have read about it/watched videos and steered well clear if those issues were important to them. Even before launch a lot of the issues had already come to light. I think the consumer should actually research to get a better feel of a game and to some degree lessen the chance of getting screwed over.
    And if no one had bought it, then we never would have heard of these issues, therefore more people would have bought it, so really that's not much of an argument.

    What really needs to happen is companies need to start being held accountable for their lies. This game is nothing like what they advertised, therefore it should 100% fall under false or deceptive advertising. The laws need an update as well, and a simple "If you product is found to be deceptive or false in it's advertising, a 100% rebate when asked for has to be given." line in the law would make the problem almost non-existent. You show off a feature? It better make it into the game or you better take it out of your marketing.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ji-tae View Post
    ohh

    you are confusion financial success with a game that is actually good.
    Success is generally measured by an easily understandable objective measure of whether a product was financially successful or not. Subjective qualifications on whether or not a game is "good" have considerably less bearing.

  15. #15
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Success is generally measured by an easily understandable objective measure of whether a product was financially successful or not. Subjective qualifications on whether or not a game is "good" have considerably less bearing.
    oh you are a mod.
    Yes of course you are right
    My apologies I was thinking about something besides money when it comes to a video game. Stupid me. Apologies

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Success is generally measured by an easily understandable objective measure of whether a product was financially successful or not. Subjective qualifications on whether or not a game is "good" have considerably less bearing.
    Ratings are low on many different websites, the quality of the product is easily observable.

  17. #17
    Serves them right for mindlessly being hyped up on a game that had little to no information given on it, and filled in the blanks with their own fantasies on what it should be like.
    Bought the game and had no expectations from it, and I'm enjoying the hell out of it.

  18. #18
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Mush View Post
    Ratings are low on many different websites, the quality of the product is easily observable.
    don't disagree with a moderator or you will be punished, be careful

    Only money counts

  19. #19
    lol I was burnt too much by Street Fighter V, which was barely even half a game on release. Genuinely, I felt embarrassed for them having released it in such bad shape as well as felt ripped off by it in general.

    Now I'm not going to buy any game within its first month again.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ji-tae View Post
    don't disagree with a moderator or you will be punished, be careful

    Only money counts
    Not at all, unless you just want to act like a victim for some reason.

    If you wanted to critique the game for not being very good, I'd wholeheartedly agree with you that there are a lot of folks, especially critics, who hold that opinion. Can't comment personally, as I've not played it, but there is no shortage of criticism for the game.

    But again, generally when speaking about any products "success" or "failure", it's done in terms of financials. Because that's the ultimate measure for the companies that create and sell them.

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