Government Shutting Down

[Tinykong]

What compromise? What are the Republicans giving? A functioning government?

You can stop saying the shutdown was a Republican thing. It's not. Neither party is responsible for shuttering the doors. It's a result of both parties failing to pass something.

The shutdown is a result, not an action.

[Pitkanen]

Shouldn't those people be pissed at the Democrats for not voting for universal care? You know, when they could have passed anything they wanted?

Yes and no. People who wanted universal healthcare can still be pragmatic about the path of the ACA as it was drafted. The fact that if it incorporated the republican market approach it would be more likely to last until implementation, and more likely to get people the insurance. They also figured they'd get some brownie points (republican votes) for using the republican plan. Making the plan harder to portray as partisan.

Taking a risk by going with universal healthcare, then potentially losing the 2012 election, then having it repealed.... the Dem's could have passed it, but it might not have become the law of the land in the long run. Nobody expected such a weak republican 2012 presidential candidate back in 2010 however.

Current poll numbers:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...ing-obamacare/

[Chrysia]

So, they put their desire to be re-elected ahead of their desire to solve a huge and growing problem that threatens to consume our country. What a bunch of patriots.

You've described literally every cocksucker in Congress. Welcome to the system.

[dbd_rage]

I don't care what other nations think of us. I've grown tired of these band-aid extensions and nail biter "omg we're 30 seconds from doom! Oh *WHEW* we're saved" nonsense.

Shut it down and send everyone home if that's what it takes to open up the divisive partisan log jam that is our current government. Both sides are acting like spoiled children. Good riddance.

THIS...Both sides. I wish we had people in our government that had morals...

[Tinykong]

I guess I'm not sure what the 'compromise' is from the GOP side? We get a functioning government? We get to go the parks that our tax dollars pay to maintain? I wanted to go to Gettysburg next weekend to look at the leaves. Trip cancelled there, hooray!

All those things are consequences for both sides failing to pass something.

Republicans didn't say "We're shuttering the government" and sent everyone home. The shutdown was merely an arbitrary consequence.

[Annapolis]

Many democrats wanted/want a single payer system. The ACA was meant to be a compromise. It originated in a conservative think tank, was championed by Nixon and later Newt Gingrich as speaker in the 90s, and finally implemented by a republican governor. I think when it was clear the GoP wasn't going to compromise Obama should have taken his super majority and shoved a single payer system down their throats.

The ACA was not implemented by a republican governor. Just because I would vote to keep state taxes for school and police doesn't mean that I would vote to allow the federal government to control what my state spends on law enforcement and schooling.

The ACA was not bipartisan and never was. Stop trying to pretend like it was. Republicans and Democrats probably never would have agreed on a law and that is an issue in itself. Don't act surprised though when a law is passed by only one party, without any compromise to get a single vote from the other party, and the implementation becomes rocky.

[Olo]

I've grown tired of these band-aid extensions and nail biter "omg we're 30 seconds from doom! Oh *WHEW* we're saved" nonsense.

I agree. Obama should whip out the 14 amendment then sit on his hands and watch the tea party destroy the GoP.

The ACA was not implemented by a republican governor.

I was referring to RomneyCare

The ACA was not bipartisan and never was. Stop trying to pretend like it was

You're right. It wasn't ever really bipartisan. First the GoP pushed it and the Democrats were against it because they wanted universal health care. Then the democrats began to push it and the GoP suddenly hated it.

[obdigore]

You can stop saying the shutdown was a Republican thing. It's not. Neither party is responsible for shuttering the doors. It's a result of both parties failing to pass something.

The shutdown is a result, not an action.

So refusing to have any meetings about the budget for six months, then shutting the government down unless a law is taken out that you don't have the legislative control to take out, isn't on the GOP? Really? Just giving them a wash for trying their hardest to do nothing but throw a wrench in the government to prove it doesn't work? Its like a mechanic who cuts through your axle to show you need a new one. It is fucking idiotic.

[KingHorse]

In either case, they've both been refuted. Multiple times, by multiple people. You just demand special attention because your arguments are..special.

You're not really helping yourself.

So the Huffington Post article that lists the various offers the Republicans made is bullshit? HuffPo is now in the business of supporting Republicans even to the point of telling lies for them?

Well that's a revelation.

And I'll take your "In either case" to mean you realize you've been wrong for about 7 pages now. The first step to healing has been taken! Rejoice!

[obdigore]

All those things are consequences for both sides failing to pass something.

Republicans didn't say "We're shuttering the government" and sent everyone home. The shutdown was merely an arbitrary consequence.

They sure as fuck did.

Half of these teapublicans ran on the campaign of shutting the government if they don't get every. single. thing. they wanted.

[frumper]

I guess I'm not sure what the 'compromise' is from the GOP side? We get a functioning government? We get to go the parks that our tax dollars pay to maintain? I wanted to go to Gettysburg next weekend to look at the leaves. Trip cancelled there, hooray!

The voters gave them the power to make this decision. Nothing in the constitution says our Congress has to pass funding measures they don't want to. The Senate isn't passing the one they don't want either. California was going through this nearly every year for a while and we have a 1 party majority system here.

[bergmann620]

You've described literally every cocksucker in Congress. Welcome to the system.

I know. That's why I refuse to give either side an inch of high ground on this. It will play out, and then we'll have another election.

[Kellhound]

178 pages. How much common ground has been found?

[Reeve]

You can stop saying the shutdown was a Republican thing. It's not. Neither party is responsible for shuttering the doors. It's a result of both parties failing to pass something.

The shutdown is a result, not an action.

But it IS a Republican thing. The Democrats aren't threatening to not pass a budget if the Republicans don't comply. The Republicans are doing that. Hell, if Boehner would break the Hastert Rule, they could pass a budget right now. This is ENTIRELY on the shoulders of the Republicans, and specifically the far right hard liners.

[Tinykong]

They sure as fuck did.

Half of these teapublicans ran on the campaign of shutting the government if they don't get every. single. thing. they wanted.

They still aren't actually doing the shuttering. Both sides failed to do their jobs. Just because you agree with one side or the other doesn't dissolve their responsibility.

[Frozenbeef]

Isn't that a big hole in the system if your entire government shuts down if both parties can't agree on something...?

Like i don't agree on things conservatives do but having a terrible idea added would be much better than having nothing at all... I really can't see why any party would be in favour of shutting down the government just because they can't get their own way. Seems like an incredibly childish thing to do.

[random296]

I'll reiterate because it's been a hot second: I'm not a Republican.

The nation isn't being held hostage. 800k people aren't at work. That's what, 0.01% of the population? A lot of other shit is shut down. It's not good. That doesn't translate into a hostage situation, so you can dial down the hyperbole.

If we assume that at least 60% of that 800,000 have families that require that income to make ends meet, that means about 480,000 families are effected. That's when you start getting into businesses that are effected by the shutdown, like every single business that depends on the tourism to national parks. Then you start thinking about the fact that the FDA isn't conducting any safety inspections at the moment, nor are any of the agencies that have been shutdown. People have to wait out the shutdown to get approved for loans. Research programs aren't getting their funding. Investors are wondering if congress if ever going to get it's act together, so they're hesitating to invest.

Suddenly, you're talking about a massive chunk of the population effected by the shutdown. Maybe not always as dramatically as losing their jobs temporarily, but still clearly impacted by the shutdown.

Not to mention that it's a national embarrassment.

[Chrysia]

All those things are consequences for both sides failing to pass something.

Republicans didn't say "We're shuttering the government" and sent everyone home. The shutdown was merely an arbitrary consequence.

The Republicans had 6 months to go to conference on the budget. They forced us into crisis mode again.

[Tinykong]

178 pages. How much common ground has been found?

None, and there never will be any.

Both sides are operating off:

"My party is right, and everyone else is wrong. I refuse to budge, and since you won't give me the bill I want to sign, it's your fault."

[frumper]

So refusing to have any meetings about the budget for six months, then shutting the government down unless a law is taken out that you don't have the legislative control to take out, isn't on the GOP? Really? Just giving them a wash for trying their hardest to do nothing but throw a wrench in the government to prove it doesn't work? Its like a mechanic who cuts through your axle to show you need a new one. It is fucking idiotic.

I think it is on the GOP, but I'm not sure why you think politicians can't be idiotic. Are you suggesting its illegal for them to not pass a budget and shut down the government?