Government Shutting Down

[Elegiac]

Despite the unfortunate nature of the shutdown, I have every confidence that this will turn out to be a victory for the Democrats.

[oxymoronic]

So i've heard on the news that the obama care crap that they're trying to do costs like 700 per month for a family of 4

that is way too much imo - republican vs democrat is the reason this country is in the shitter - i wish one side would just outright win and we push one agenda... I used to like the republican agenda but its hard for any person that uses common sense to remain loyal.

[Zaydin]

you understand that they will get back pay? all this amounts to is a 2 week paid vacation

Unless they work paycheck to paycheck, in which case, they are absolutely screwed.

[obdigore]

you understand that they will get back pay? all this amounts to is a 2 week paid vacation

Only essential workers are guaranteed back pay, because they are actually working. Non-essential workers receiving payment for the time they are furloughed is up to congress when they actually start funding the government again.

[Apexis]

You aren't a source. The "free market" is doing what it does. The flaw you are ignoring is employers deciding health coverage. Yet, you have no problem railing about government.

So once again, sigh.

except for the cost of the policy she has, the actual contents have not changed in the almost 15 years she has had the policy, until now. So tell me how that is..

[Elegiac]

you understand that they will get back pay? all this amounts to is a 2 week paid vacation

You understand that a furlough is UNPAID leave by definition? Back pay doesn't alleviate the fact that they have no income at the present, nor does it alleviate any of the indirect detriments that the shutdown will bring.

The amount of ignorance and disrespect you and many Americans have for civil servants is disgusting, quite frankly.

[Smitzelplix]

well kids the government is officially shut down now.. and despite the stars being dimmer and all of the streets have vanished.. you can pretty much expect no noticeable difference in your daily life.. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...own-will-work/

And yet some in my family who are civilian government employees won't be able to work tomorrow and might not be able to for awhile depending on how long this thing lasts. So yeah for them it could be highly noticeable if it were to last lets say 21 days like the one during 95-96. Also it doesn't matter if they get back pay or not, if bills come up that they have trouble paying due to not having the money right now the bill collectors aren't going to care and will charge a late fee.

[frumper]

If people are curious about what the real numbers are you can go check them out instead of throwing out what you heard from the news or someone else.

California has had a working website with the actual numbers for over a month at http://www.coveredca.com

and it looks like this link will help any other states.

https://www.healthcare.gov/marketplace/individual/


for Hellravager, 2 40 year old parents + 2 kids, plans start at around $450/mo for the family, then you'll get a subsidy to reduce that amount lower if you make under $80k or so.

An example, at $40k, that family of four plans start at $111/mo.

[ishootblanks]

Or government contractors. Or wanted to visit a national park or museum. Or run a business in DC, which apparently looses over 200million a day from this shutdown. Awesomesauce.

Every week is going to drop .3% growth off of the economy? Awesome!

I just paid $80 for my NPS annual pass.. naturally the next day I saw the article about the NPS creating video documentaries about how Islam has benefited women's rights...

if the economy drops by .3% every week because of a government shutdown.. that means we spend too much on government

and seriously.. DC is the wealthiest per capita area in the entire nation.. I'm pretty sure DC will survive this tragedy..

[oxymoronic]

Unless of course you happen to work for the government. Fuck those people though, right? They don't deserve to work, or get paid, because you don't agree with what they do.

Freeedddommmmm!!!!

why the Freeedddommmmm!!!! comment? makes you look immature much like the kids that say MERICA or something similar. Please stop.

[Slybak]

No, it didn't make it out of the Senate Finance Committee because of backroom deals and counting up votes. I'd like you to show me the proof that the Democrats removed the Single Payer option just because.

There was never any "Single Payer option," that wasn't even on the table to begin with and for largely political reasons. The public insurance option, essentially a program that would be part of the exchanges in order to control costs, was part of the House bill but not the Senate.

During the mark up of the bill, the Senate basically acted as a 60-seat legislature that operated under unanimous consent; the Republicans would not accept anything, and the only way for any bill or amendment to the bill to pass was if all 60 Democrats voted in the affirmative. Some Senators, notably Max Baucus, Kent Conrad, and Ben Nelson publicly balked at the inclusion of such a program (Nelson went so far as to call it a "dealbreaker") because it received intense opposition from certain lobbyists; not just the insurance sector (as they were opposed to pretty much everything), but lobbyists for hospital associations who didn't want another Federal program through which they would only be partially reimbursed.

All systems have stakeholders, or groups invested in the status quo, and reforming any given system means either beating those stakeholders or dulling their fervor to maintain that status quo. The pre-ACA healthcare system basically had four stakeholder groups; insurance (both public and private, profit and non-profit), private care providers (doctors, hospitals, nurses, etc), suppliers (like drug companies and DME sellers), and regulators in the form of state insurance commissioners. Some of those stakeholders could be beaten in 2009/2010, and some couldn't be beaten and basically had to be bought off or appeased in some other fashion. The reason why the exchanges are state based on not federally-based was to appease the state insurance commissioners. The reason why drug patents were made more favorable to drug manufacturers was to appease the pharmaceutical lobby. And the reason why the public option was dropped was to appease the private care providers. The rest were beaten.

[obdigore]

I just paid $80 for my NPS annual pass.. naturally the next day I saw the article about the NPS creating video documentaries about how Islam has benefited women's rights...

if the economy drops by .3% every week because of a government shutdown.. that means we spend too much on government

and seriously.. DC is the wealthiest per capita area in the entire nation.. I'm pretty sure DC will survive this tragedy..

You don't understand how the economy works. Tourism is a thing. Museums/Destinations are a thing. People visiting different parks buy stuff in that region, and benefit the economy.

If visa's aren't granted the US looses a ton of money from foreigners (tourists) who want to come here for a vacation.

Your suggestion that we 'spend too much on government' because suddenly having another million people without money to buy things like food/shelter is just a giant clue that you have no idea what you are talking about.

[ishootblanks]

And yet some in my family who are civilian government employees won't be able to work tomorrow and might not be able to for awhile depending on how long this thing lasts. So yeah for them it could be highly noticeable if it were to last lets say 21 days like the one during 95-96.

my dad and two of my brothers work for the Post Office.. and guess what.. they're going to work tomorrow..

and yeah it's a bummer that your family members have to deal with a delayed paycheck.. but that's life.. people have issues.. and just because you work for the federal government does not mean you should be immune to harm when the people running the show screw up

[Sunseeker]

so what this amounts to.. is that Obamacare costs an awful lot for very little return

Since she has her own insurance, she wouldn't need to buy on the exchanges anyway.

[Elegiac]

my dad and two of my brothers work for the Post Office.. and guess what.. they're going to work tomorrow..

and yeah it's a bummer that your family members have to deal with a delayed paycheck.. but that's life.. people have issues.. and just because you work for the federal government does not mean you should be immune to harm when the people running the show screw up

I.e. "Bugger you Jack, I'm alright."

[obdigore]

my dad and two of my brothers work for the Post Office.. and guess what.. they're going to work tomorrow..

and yeah it's a bummer that your family members have to deal with a delayed paycheck.. but that's life.. people have issues.. and just because you work for the federal government does not mean you should be immune to harm when the people running the show screw up

The post office supports itself. Just more evidence that you don't even read the links you bring to the thread (your post a page back that had a link already noted that the post office wasn't shutting down because it funds itself through postage).

[NYC17]

so what this amounts to.. is that Obamacare costs an awful lot for very little return

- - - Updated - - -



you understand that they will get back pay? all this amounts to is a 2 week paid vacation

You're serious with this? Why are you so consistently uninformed, yet so adamant about displaying it?

[ishootblanks]

You don't understand how the economy works. Tourism is a thing. Museums/Destinations are a thing. People visiting different parks buy stuff in that region, and benefit the economy.

If visa's aren't granted the US looses a ton of money from foreigners (tourists) who want to come here for a vacation.

Your suggestion that we 'spend too much on government' because suddenly having another million people without money to buy things like food/shelter is just a giant clue that you have no idea what you are talking about.

way to blow things out of proportion.. remember the Sequestration was supposed to devastate our economy as well...

and if you're so worried about it.. why not call up your Senators tomorrow and tell them to make a deal with Republicans who have already come more than halfway on their wants

[obdigore]

There was never any "Single Payer option," that wasn't even on the table to begin with and for largely political reasons. The public insurance option, essentially a program that would be part of the exchanges in order to control costs, was part of the House bill but not the Senate.

During the mark up of the bill, the Senate basically acted as a 60-seat legislature that operated under unanimous consent; the Republicans would not accept anything, and the only way for any bill or amendment to the bill to pass was if all 60 Democrats voted in the affirmative. Some Senators, notably Max Baucus, Kent Conrad, and Ben Nelson publicly balked at the inclusion of such a program (Nelson went so far as to call it a "dealbreaker") because it received intense opposition from certain lobbyists; not just the insurance sector (as they were opposed to pretty much everything), but lobbyists for hospital associations who didn't want another Federal program through which they would only be partially reimbursed.

All systems have stakeholders, or groups invested in the status quo, and reforming any given system means either beating those stakeholders or dulling their fervor to maintain that status quo. The pre-ACA healthcare system basically had four stakeholder groups; insurance (both public and private, profit and non-profit), private care providers (doctors, hospitals, nurses, etc), suppliers (like drug companies and DME sellers), and regulators in the form of state insurance commissioners. Some of those stakeholders could be beaten in 2009/2010, and some couldn't be beaten and basically had to be bought off or appeased in some other fashion. The reason why the exchanges are state based on not federally-based was to appease the state insurance commissioners. The reason why drug patents were made more favorable to drug manufacturers was to appease the pharmaceutical lobby. And the reason why the public option was dropped was to appease the private care providers. The rest were beaten.

Although I agree with the first part, I asked for sources to support your argument :P

[frumper]

except for the cost of the policy she has, the actual contents have not changed in the almost 15 years she has had the policy, until now. So tell me how is that is..

Her employer made a decision to change the plan. They could have kept the same insurance, the ACA doesn't tell them they have to offer worse insurance, they're choosing to do that. I can speculate why they might, but so can you.