Will you continue your sub?

[Ravex]

I don't expect newly released MMOs to have the same amount of content as WoW, but I do expect them to have the same features I've become accustomed to in other games. FFXIV actually did fairly well in that regard from what I've seen so far, it at least launched with an LFG tool, which is more than I can say for the past 3 MMOs I've played post-WoW. I suppose if I cared about PvP I might be disappointed, but given FFXIV's combat system I can't imagine that I would enjoy PvP very much.

My bf officially hung up the towel on the game. He got fed up with the copious amount of dialog boxes you have to sift through to accept quests. That's a big pet peeve of his and the main reason he never got SW:TOR. (Someone in this thread, I believe, said they felt that was preferable to lump sum quest boxes, but obviously not in some cases.) I tried showing him how to basically fast foward over it, but he said even that was too much hassle. >_< While that hasn't bothered me as much, the cutscenes you can't skip over certainly do, but it is what it is.

It's a shame they went with a subscription model. I would probably keep playing it on the side if it were free.

No offence, but complaining about having to read a tiny bit of quest text and viewing cut scenes is VERY petty especially in the mmo genre.

Considering Fates are the optimal way to level and are nothing but go from point A to Kill something at point B then to point C. Pretty much takes the story and quest text away.

Final Fantasy is a story HEAVY genre, playing it and not liking the story, well thats your view, your opinion, your problem. Nothing to do with the game.

I still prefer sub models myself, if you enjoy it you play, if you don't you don't.

[Kelimbror]

if you enjoy it you play, if you don't you don't.

Said everyone with nothing to say trying to dismiss valid criticism...ever.

I think it is the specific IP that focuses much more on the RPG aspect up front, but it's going to rub many people the wrong way. There's nothing wrong with them saying as much.

[Lane]

No offence, but complaining about having to read a tiny bit of quest text and viewing cut scenes is VERY petty especially in the mmo genre.

Well, no offense, but there's nothing "tiny" about the amount of text FFXIV throws at you. A lot of it is unnecessary too, like an NPC blathering on about something that's completely inconsequential to to the story (which is a pet peeve of mine). In fact, some of them even admit in the dialog boxes that they're rambling. I personally feel that would have been better served added to random NPCs instead of quest NPCs. At least give the player the choice of whether or not to wander around chatting with NPCs or get on with their business. Ideally, of course, there would be an option to read or skip over everything.

Now, I'm the type of person who actually does read quest text and in all of the console RPG games (including many FF titles) I've played I talk to every NPC (usually multiple times after each story segment). Despite that, there have been times in FFXIV where I've said, "Oh, shut up already" when trying to accept a quest. It does get to be a bit much.

Also, you can't expect people new to the game to know that FATEs are the most effective way to level. Your post is the first I've seen about that and most people who are used to bouncing from quest hub to quest hub aren't going to completely forsake that in favor of running around (on foot at low levels) between FATEs that aren't always occurring and don't always have others to assist either.

[Deleted]

The thing with final fantasy games, (I might be wrong) but is there any point in playing them if you don't follow/read the text/story with them. I personally find it funny hearing people moan about the text boxes when Ff games have always been heavily story based. This is the first mmo I have ever read all quest text and I enjoyed every second. It didn't feel like a drag... it was entertaining.

Maybe lots of people expected this game to be a rush to the end and raid like a normal game expansion usually is nowadays instead of treating it like a new game with a good story to follow.

Just my 2cents.

[Lane]

The thing with final fantasy games, (I might be wrong) but is there any point in playing them if you don't follow/read the text/story with them. I personally find it funny hearing people moan about the text boxes when Ff games have always been heavily story based. This is the first mmo I have ever read all quest text and I enjoyed every second. It didn't feel like a drag... it was entertaining.

I can't comment on previous FF MMOs, I've only played the console games, and there was not that much reading. The console games (at least the more recent ones) are typically full of voice acted cutscenes and the only reading is usually player choice by wandering around chatting with NPCs.

I felt like FFXIV's story was very slow going. A friend of mine told me it progressively gets better. Since I've mostly been trying to figure out which class I like best it's meant having to go through the same content multiple times and once you've read it you've read it, but there's no way to skip over it. (Supposedly leveling one character with every class would have been faster than making multiple alts but, again, I didn't know.)

Edit: Well, my bf hated all the VA cutscenes in SW:TOR so that wouldn't have made a difference in this game either. I don't know. He was into WoW's lore, but hasn't seemed to care about the story of any MMO since.

[Ravex]

Said everyone with nothing to say trying to dismiss valid criticism...ever.

I think it is the specific IP that focuses much more on the RPG aspect up front, but it's going to rub many people the wrong way. There's nothing wrong with them saying as much.

Wasn't about the game itself, was about the subscription model, but thanks for squeezing your 2 cents in there.

[Kelimbror]

Wasn't about the game itself, was about the subscription model, but thanks for squeezing your 2 cents in there.

So to put it in context, which would mean you are disregarding the entirety of your own post, you are essentially saying "If you enjoy a subscription model, play the game. If you don't enjoy a subscription model, don't play it".

Congratulations. You've officially made a pointless post even more so. Who enjoys paying for something? I can either be patronizing you or you can admit that the statement applied to your whole quote. Either way, it obviously applied to everything you wrote.

[Ravex]

Well, no offense, but there's nothing "tiny" about the amount of text FFXIV throws at you. A lot of it is unnecessary too, like an NPC blathering on about something that's completely inconsequential to to the story (which is a pet peeve of mine). In fact, some of them even admit in the dialog boxes that they're rambling. I personally feel that would have been better served added to random NPCs instead of quest NPCs. At least give the player the choice of whether or not to wander around chatting with NPCs or get on with their business. Ideally, of course, there would be an option to read or skip over everything.

Now, I'm the type of person who actually does read quest text and in all of the console RPG games (including many FF titles) I've played I talk to every NPC (usually multiple times after each story segment). Despite that, there have been times in FFXIV where I've said, "Oh, shut up already" when trying to accept a quest. It does get to be a bit much.

Also, you can't expect people new to the game to know that FATEs are the most effective way to level. Your post is the first I've seen about that and most people who are used to bouncing from quest hub to quest hub aren't going to completely forsake that in favor of running around (on foot at low levels) between FATEs that aren't always occurring and don't always have others to assist either.

Hmm, as far as the story quests go I actually enjoyed them, and since the higher you level the fewer story quests you actually do didn't seem like much at all to me. Honestly though I am pretty old school when it comes to the ff games, console and mmo alike so I came into the game EXPECTING there to be a long story to it.

It's just something that the FF ip is and imo should carry on with.

I would actually probably go out of my mind if I bothered with the sidequests.

I could get on board 100% for the side quest text to be skipped. Outside of the main story I could really care less what npcs have to say.

- - - Updated - - -

So to put it in context, which would mean you are disregarding the entirety of your own post, you are essentially saying "If you enjoy a subscription model, play the game. If you don't enjoy a subscription model, don't play it".

Congratulations. You've officially made a pointless post even more so. Who enjoys paying for something? I can either be patronizing you or you can admit that the statement applied to your whole quote. Either way, it obviously applied to everything you wrote.

Seems someone is in a mood.

Let me try your reasoning.

You reply to pointless thread. Congratulations! Your post must be even more pointless to replay to a pointless thread!

That aside, I'M SORRY FOR MY OPINION THAT SUB BASED GAMES PRODUCE BETTER QUALITY CONTENT THEN F2P GAMES AND KEEP SOME OF THE TROLLS AWAY FROM THE GAME.

Maybe if you see those caps you might think I came up with my own idea of the post instead of you being the determining factor of what I am posting on here.

I don't think it applied to the entirety of my post.. well because I wrote it, but you know, you probably do know better then me.

[jbombard]

...snip...
That aside, I'M SORRY FOR MY OPINION THAT SUB BASED GAMES PRODUCE BETTER QUALITY CONTENT THEN F2P GAMES AND KEEP SOME OF THE TROLLS AWAY FROM THE GAME.
...snip...

I think sub games put more pressure on developers to continuously add value to the game so that people will stay subbed. That said it doesn't guarantee that they will. Nor does being a F2P game guarantee that they won't. It all comes down to the developers design philosophy more than the model.

As far as community goes, if you look at the number 1 sub game of all time, WoW, you can see that being a sub game does not guarantee a stellar community. I think you will find gameplay and community size much bigger factors in the quality of a community than whether or not the game has a sub model.

[Ravex]

I think sub games put more pressure on developers to continuously add value to the game so that people will stay subbed. That said it doesn't guarantee that they will. Nor does being a F2P game guarantee that they won't. It all comes down to the developers design philosophy more than the model.

As far as community goes, if you look at the number 1 sub game of all time, WoW, you can see that being a sub game does not guarantee a stellar community. I think you will find gameplay and community size much bigger factors in the quality of a community than whether or not the game has a sub model.

Honestly I've yet to see a F2P game hold my interest for more then a week, I prefer the sub model, and I know that its going to take 15 dollars for that guy that just can't stand the game to be able to be inside it bitching and moaning about it.

I don't think its a sub WoW or even mmo thing that effects community. Gamers as a whole have just changed for the worse.

[Kelimbror]

Maybe if you see those caps

Nope. It just makes me think you could use a dose of maturity and probably should work on reigning in the insults before you post further. You've got backpedaling and moving goalposts down 100%, so just move on to the etiquette section of the posting manual and it will be smooth sailing.

So let's rewind, since you want to dance semantics and act like you didn't just say what I quoted you k? The point was that you just attacked someone for expressing a valid opinion just because you disagree with them. You started off with the classic 'no offense' which believe it or not is actually not a license to be offensive.

You specifically avoided responding to the point of my post, which was to call you out on saying it's someone else's problem that they don't like clicking through text. I admit that being FF, it leans heavy on the RPG part of MMORPG, but it's going to turn off a lot of players. I think it is great, but it's paced horribly. As someone who enjoys the game, you shouldn't be asking for it to put off more players just so you can be surrounded by yes men.

That's what leads to F2P, people like you bailing on the game, and moving on to the next thing you defend by insulting people and then trash when it isn't convenient. Yes, this post is filled with assumptions. Feel free to say I'm wrong. It won't change what I believe, so think about that before wasting too much effort responding.

[jbombard]

Honestly I've yet to see a F2P game hold my interest for more then a week, I prefer the sub model, and I know that its going to take 15 dollars for that guy that just can't stand the game to be able to be inside it bitching and moaning about it.

I don't think its a sub WoW or even mmo thing that effects community. Gamers as a whole have just changed for the worse.

I also prefer sub games, but I do think there are good F2P games as well. Path of Exile, I think is an excellent F2P game, it's just not an MMORPG. I think because there are so many bad F2P games the good ones get lost in the shuffle. And then even if the game is striving to be a quality game, different people like different kinds of games, so that doesn't guarantee you or I will actually like it. But I do think there are F2P developers making good games for their target audience, even if I am not their target, it's just there are so damn many out to just make a quick buck.

I think smaller communities by their very nature are better. Just like if you live in a small town, you know your neighbors, you stop to talk to people on the street, people treat each other well because they tend to feel a bit like an extended family of sorts. In big cities like New York, you can't possibly remember all the names, nor do you have time to stop and talk to everyone, the larger a community gets the bigger sense on anonymity it develops. Also gameplay that requires patience and critical thinking skills are going to attract a different kind of player than a game where you smash your face on the keyboard for fast and easy fat lewts.

[Wynnyelle]

Let's cool the hostility a little bit, please. Keep it civil.

[Mukki]

I can't comment on previous FF MMOs, I've only played the console games, and there was not that much reading. The console games (at least the more recent ones) are typically full of voice acted cutscenes and the only reading is usually player choice by wandering around chatting with NPCs.

I felt like FFXIV's story was very slow going. A friend of mine told me it progressively gets better. Since I've mostly been trying to figure out which class I like best it's meant having to go through the same content multiple times and once you've read it you've read it, but there's no way to skip over it. (Supposedly leveling one character with every class would have been faster than making multiple alts but, again, I didn't know.)

Edit: Well, my bf hated all the VA cutscenes in SW:TOR so that wouldn't have made a difference in this game either. I don't know. He was into WoW's lore, but hasn't seemed to care about the story of any MMO since.

It sounds to me like you've never played a Final Fantasy game before 10.

[Orkwuzhere]

I felt like FFXIV's story was very slow going. A friend of mine told me it progressively gets better. Since I've mostly been trying to figure out which class I like best it's meant having to go through the same content multiple times and once you've read it you've read it, but there's no way to skip over it. (Supposedly leveling one character with every class would have been faster than making multiple alts but, again, I didn't know.)

After going through a bunch of story quests just to get an auction house, store weapons/armor I didn't need anymore (I couldn't store anything in my armoire), and having access to an airship to get crafting trades that actually helped my class build (Weaver and Alchemy for Summoner), I lost all interest in making an alt especially that you will run out of quests when you level your 2nd or 3rd class. Guild and Battlecraft leves get very boring, and I wouldn't call Fate fights fun.

[Lane]

It sounds to me like you've never played a Final Fantasy game before 10.

I wasn't aware we were going as far back as the year 2000 for a game released in 2013, but okay.

[Kaelwryn]

i didn't realize that all games in this day and age have to have voice acting. I guess reading really is dead these days. How sad.

[Kelimbror]

i didn't realize that all games in this day and age have to have voice acting. I guess reading really is dead these days. How sad.

I didn't realize that all arguments required ignoring what someone is actually saying while crafting paper thin straw men. How sad. This sort of patronizing response isn't helpful for a discussion. They aren't saying they have problems reading or demand that the game have voice acting at every turn.

Basically the complaint is that the way the story is presented (especially at early levels) makes it drag. And they are 100% right. For every one of us that thinks it's awesome we get old school RPG walls of text, there's 10 people who are frustrated it takes an hour of spam clicking to even get into combat for the first time.

It's incredibly ill conceived and executed. I rather enjoyed the change, but I'm not the average person. If it wasn't an MMO that depended on recurring income, I wouldn't have a problem with the niche delivery of their game. Unfortunately, it remains to be seen if this approach will net any sort of long term success. As someone who wants the game to do well so I can enjoy it for a long time, I would have preferred some design changes w/r/t quest and story delivery among other things.

If I'm giving my selfish opinion? I love it. Don't change it. But that's an awfully naieve perspective to take.

[Kaelwryn]

Is ff14 presentation of the story the best? Probably not. I've seen so many comments about how a video game doesn't have voice acting and that there's so much dialogue to read, etc etc. Quite sad that many people in this day and age basically can't live out voice acting.

FF is a series that has always been know for its story and typically lengthy story at that. The fact that FF14 has lots of quest text is tbh very unsurprising. As I said, maybe they didn't have the best presentation for their story but I find it sad that people complain over it. And I think I'm allowed to have that opinion, just as all those people who dislike having to read the story are allowed to their opinion of it being too much/boring/tedious/what have you.

[Lane]

Agreed with what Kitty said, but I'll break it down further for simplicity's sake:

Too much of the dialog is meaningless. I lost track of how many NPCs blathered on about their personal problems, which had absolutely nothing to do with you, the storyline, the surrounding area, or anything other than their own personal problems. This is something I felt should not have been added to quest NPCs. It adds a lot of unnecessary dialog.

What they could have done was either 1. added a "skip" function or 2. have further chat options with the NPC after accepting the quest. I'm not quite sure why the latter wasn't implemented since you do appear to accept the quest with a brief description upon first talking to an NPC, but then you're forced to click through numerous dialog boxes before it'll truly accept.

As I said, I usually read all quest text and talk to NPCs whether I have to or not, however, it does bother me when what they have to say is inconsequential to anything. Usually in single player RPGs talking to the NPCs gives you a feel of what's happening either with the overall storyline, the immediate area, how current events have affected the layperson, etc. As long as it's telling me something about the atmosphere it adds to immersion, but too many of the quest NPCs not part of the main story seemed to be lacking that but with just as much dialog to have to read.