No Item Squish

[Deleted]

If the item squish goes through I honestly don't believe I'll be playing WoW anymore.

People have brought up a number of arguments which I really don't buy:

1. that the numbers get too large to compute - sorry, I call bullshit on that.

Now, for example an integer of just 4 bytes can have a value of up to 2.147.483.647. That's over 2 billion and attacks barely even do a million. If it's UNsigned (i.e. always a positive number) the limit's over 4 billion. The only thing even remotely close to that is boss HP.

If you use 8 bytes, well then the number is even higher, at least 15 or 16 digits that probably can't be reached for 6 expansions.

I don't know in what language they program WoW with or the exact kind of variables used, but just throwing that out there. No way this can be harder than going over every single player ability and boss encounter and re-balancing it. Who the hell would test it anyway? In the end it would end up buggy with probably 1 NPC ability out of 50 doing the original damage (and noobies getting one-shot without even knowing why, while questing).

2. unreadable numbers

NO! poor excuse, that's why there's notations like K (thousand) M (million) B (billion) etc. Only 5 digits will ever show up at best.

3. You can still solo old content

The only way this will be possible is if they give some ridiculous 500% buff at max level or something which is just weird, I want to play my character as it is

4. powers will be relative, mobs get nerfed

Doesn't matter. Haven't you figured out it by now? People LIKE having increasingly larger HP, attacks etc. for the sake of it, regardless of what other mobs' power is. It's not about them, it's about us. People LIKE the exponential growth for the "cool" factor.

Would Cookie Clicker really be that fun if you couldn't go from 2 cookies a second to 5 trillion?

I don't think I could go back to having 10k HP and doing 1-2k DPS. What's the point? We're back at TBC levels? It will be way to predictable then, we went thought 100-150 already and then in WoTLK from 200 to 277. Been there done that, it just won't be fun anymore, everything will feel nerfed.

[Dormie]

I don't wwant to be hitting for millions next xpack, squish the numbers. Imagine being a new player, you'd be like, why do I have to be hitting for so much? Not to mention I'd rather not have to see stats in the thousands.
Honestly I hope you CAN'T solo as much old content as we currently can. Just because it's old doesn't mean it should be a pushover. If your willing to quit the game over this then you must not really care for the game much to begin with.

Also, http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1347346-Stat-Squish, THE POLL HAS SPOKEN!

[DeltrusDisc]

You can still solo old content because EVERYTHING will be factored in to the squish, INCLUDING low level stuff too.

Blizzard isn't that stupid...

[LocNess]

While I generally agree with most of your points, you are assuming too much. Not everybody can easily read 395182 flashing across the screen mixed with a bunch of 69748s and such. There are a lot of numbers on the screen that make it seem more cluttered. Also, not everybody likes current numbers, thus the reason for the item squish.

I do agree however that "computers not being able to handle it" is complete bullshit.

[Deleted]

i think the goal will be to just shrink the levels together. former ilvl 40 at lvl 40 will now be ilvl 20. mobs just get scaled down so old lvl 40 mobs will now be like lvl 20 mobs. everything just will shrink togerther. the relations will stay they will just get a bit closer to each other in levels. a lvl system like in elder scrolls will never come, cause it kills the idea of leveling itself. i hated it. for an offlinegame that was focussed on story it was okay. but i never felt like i had levelt in elder scrolls.

[angerpaw]

You can still solo old content because EVERYTHING will be factored in to the squish, INCLUDING low level stuff too.

Blizzard isn't that stupid...

No. They will just give you a buff in old instances. They won't nerf vanilla/tbc instances.

The poll someone made is also biased as most of the votes is in favor of item squish because of nostalgia.
I am not in for itemsquish as they can just remove some zeroes instead and add K,M,B behind numbers instead.

[Deleted]

While I generally agree with most of your points, you are assuming too much. Not everybody can easily read 395182 flashing across the screen mixed with a bunch of 69748s and such. There are a lot of numbers on the screen that make it seem more cluttered. Also, not everybody likes current numbers, thus the reason for the item squish.

I do agree however that "computers not being able to handle it" is complete bullshit.

First of, it doesn't show 69748 but 69,748 and they could even make it show 69k and nothing more.

1
10
100
1k
10k
100k
1M

You can still solo old content because EVERYTHING will be factored in to the squish, INCLUDING low level stuff too.

Blizzard isn't that stupid...

You missed the point. Re-read.

I don't wwant to be hitting for millions next xpack, squish the numbers. Imagine being a new player, you'd be like, why do I have to be hitting for so much? Not to mention I'd rather not have to see stats in the thousands.

Also, http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1347346-Stat-Squish, THE POLL HAS SPOKEN!

If you're a new player, you won't (unless you're an e-bayer). You'll be hitting for 100 max for a while.

[Sole-Warrior]

But I found a quote the other day here:

TC: "If we don't do the item squish it's going to require a lot of re-engineering of our combat code to actually support bigger numbers. We're getting really close to the point where the code can't..."
CS: "Yeah, the code can't compile the numbers"
TC: "Yeah it can't compile the numbers, so we are testing the item squish internally with the expansion, and I think a good time to launch it would be right before the next expansion so people are already used to it by the time the expansion launches. So, that's the current plan, but we'll see how it works out. I hope we can." (Source)

I'm not sure are they talking about several expansions in the future or not. But if technological issues do arose, than squish till they can upgrade their combat codes.
Large Numberphobia is a poor excuse.

[Shampro]

It doesnt matter if you want it or not, Blizzard has stated that it has contributed to performance issues, in Raiding in particular. I dont care if you call bullshit or not, I'd rather belive ppl that are actually working on it, than some random guy that just doesn't want it because he thinks he wont be able to do shit for some reason. Like it or not, it will go through, one way or another. So might aswell cancel now

[bklutz]

while i do like hitting harder as i progress my character. its simply getting TOO large...at this rate next xpac we'll be doing 1 mil dps...thats not really fun to me. Personally my favorite time in terms of numbers was early Wotlk. I want 10k-20k crits to be special.

[nightfalls]

1. that the numbers get too large to compute - sorry, I call bullshit on that. Now, for example an integer of just 4 bytes can have a value of up to 2.147.483.647. That's over 2 billion and attacks barely even do a million. If it's UNsigned (i.e. always a positive number) the limit's over 4 billion. The only thing even remotely close to that is boss HP.

HP can go to 2 billion and it has gone to 2 billion. Reference the Ra-den bug, where if you allowed Ra-den on 25 Heroic to absorb 5 Anima Orbs, his health would exceed 2,147m and would cause an overflow bug preventing you from killing him and forcing a raid wipe/reset.

The only way this will be possible is if they give some ridiculous 500% buff at max level or something which is just weird, I want to play my character as it is

One way to allow this is simply to chop off two digits. Of course this would preserve balance of power. Would this happen? Not sure since low levels will be in trouble.

Personally I believe a "level squish" is needed almost more than a "power squish." For instance Vanilla now 1-50, Outland 50-57, Northrend 58-65, Cata 65-70, MOP 70-75, Expansion 6 75-80.

Would Cookie Clicker really be that fun if you couldn't go from 2 cookies a second to 5 trillion?

I mean, 5 trillion is a bit of a step up from 2...

I don't think I could go back to having 10k HP and doing 1-2k DPS. What's the point? We're back at TBC levels? It will be way to predictable then, we went thought 100-150 already and then in WoTLK from 200 to 277. Been there done that, it just won't be fun anymore, everything will feel nerfed.

This is the only thing I really agree with, but meh. I'd rather see it in Beta mode first. Going to 1-2k would be a bit of a disappointment for sure and I do not believe this is possible without massive overhaul on low levels (read: level squish).

Personally I think Cataclysm values seem fine, or even WotLK.

[DeltrusDisc]

Pretty sure I had read Blizzard saying that everything would be squished so that you could still solo old content just as easily.

And so what if it just calls for some big ol' buff?

I'd much rather go back to reasonable and realistic numbers than the absurd shit we're on now, as it is. The inflation has gotten WAY too out of control.

[Xjev]

2. unreadable numbers

NO! poor excuse, that's why there's notations like K (thousand) M (million) B (billion) etc. Only 5 digits will ever show up at best.

If you put M on numbers how you are gonna differentiate 1,000,110 with 1,000,111? If you wanna just call it 1M, so whats the difference, thats what item squish will do.

Edit: I mean, if you see 1,000,110 and 1,000,111 as same numbers and you wanna call it 1M, why would you be against item squish, this is exactly what item squish will do.

[Boricha]

If the item squish goes through I honestly don't believe I'll be playing WoW anymore.
Haven't you figured out it by now? People LIKE having increasingly larger HP, attacks etc. for the sake of it, regardless of what other mobs' power is. It's not about them, it's about us. People LIKE the exponential growth for the "cool" factor.

I don't like the increasing HP pool anymore. I don't like the exponential growth and I don't think it is "cool" at all. Bring on the squish!

[Deleted]

"If we don't do the item squish it's going to require a lot of re-engineering of our combat code to actually support bigger numbers. We're getting really close to the point where the code can't..."

It's not like the squish doesn't require a lot of work. You have to re-balance all the old content and make sure every single boss or mob ability has been nerfed so that it can't one-shot players of appropriate level.

Whatever, my sub runs out in 6 months, about the same time I expect MOP to end. I can't be bothered to collect TBC-level gear again, one of the exciting features of every tier/expansion is seeing how high the numbers go. And I've already seen it.

Post-MoP expansion - TBC
Post-Post-MoP expansion - probably close to WoTLK

NAH, too predictable, been there done that, time to find a new game

[Serissa]

1. that the numbers get too large to compute - sorry, I call bullshit on that.

Now, for example an integer of just 4 bytes can have a value of up to 2.147.483.647. That's over 2 billion and attacks barely even do a million. If it's UNsigned (i.e. always a positive number) the limit's over 4 billion. The only thing even remotely close to that is boss HP.

It's not about limits only. It's about recources needed also.

Try to divide (without PC or calc, just use pencil and paper) 10 by 5 then try to divide 1,894,687,153 by 2,864. Can you see difference in time needed? Now imagine you have to do it countless time every second. Same story for your pc or game server. Smaller numbers -> less resources needed.

[MrKnubbles]

It might "feel" nerfed for like the first week at most. I doubt it will feel that long. I honestly don't think I will feel nerfed at all.

How would you feel nerfed if you saw 100 instead of 100k and mob hp went down by the same percentage? I don't think they'll cut it down by that much but you get the idea. I imagine values to be 10% of what they are now. So, 10k instead of 100k. That's still a lot of damage though.

[melodramocracy]

OP needs a refresher course in math.

[Dormie]

Large Numberphobia is a poor excuse.

It's really not. It's the same reason we don't use trillions with our currency.

Either way, small numberphobia is a poor excuse...

First of, it doesn't show 69748 but 69,748 and they could even make it show 69k and nothing more.

1
10
100
1k
10k
100k
1M

That already sounds boring.

[Deleted]

If you put M on numbers how you are gonna differentiate 1,000,110 with 1,000,111?

You don't need to.