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  1. #1

    GC's spriest comments are disconcerting

    From the front page

    "It is not a goal for all specs to tie in all situations. We fear that would erode class diversity quite a bit. (Source)
    Historically, multidotting has been really effective. But if single target dotting is also effective, why play a non dot?"

    Top dps so far are afflocks. And how is a 25% buffed sw overpowered on single target. The disconcerting part is he says they didn't buff shadow because of our campaign (which is fine) but because we didn't meet their numbers. So they erred on the side of caution but it ended up being an error so they nerfed sw.

    Yet here we have afflocks number 1, shadow suffering on the 3rd section with all of the single target fights, and still we have to work harder to apply all of our multidot.

    Why's he so concerned about shadow being better than others? what's wrong with shadow being top 3? Why design all this multidot non sense if you're going to nerf class specializations like this?

    I really believe the guy is a moron.

    Just read his twitter feed.

  2. #2
    I dislike the dps gap as much as the next guy but a priest is a hybrid, it's to be expected (most of the time anyway)

  3. #3
    "Historically, multidotting has been really effective. But if single target dotting is also effective, why play a non dot?"
    If you can't balance multi-dotting vs. single - change it so dots become less effective when applied to multiple targets. For example:

    SW:P is applied on one target does X damage.

    SW:P applied on the next target reduces each application to (.5X + an additional Y damage to account for GCD and target switching)

    and so on...

  4. #4
    Spriests are now officially Hybrids. In the past it seems GC forgot about Fury Warriors and Shadow having heal/tank specs. >.>
    Hi Sephurik

  5. #5
    Deleted
    I facepalmed so hard I broke my nose. Just as GC broke my faith in Class Balance.

  6. #6
    He's saying that if swp is buffed and we do "competitive" single target damage, them why would you bring anyone other than a multidot class to any fight? Superior on fights with adds and competitive single target means why bother bringing inferior cleave or dot classes?

    The SW nerf is 3-5% of our overall damage. It is not "sky is falling" worthy. Just shutup and play the game. You and 99.9% of the players playing this game don't play at a competitive level enough for the kinds of class balance changes you're crying for to make a difference.

    Just shutup, play the game and stop comparing yourself to other classes, specs, players, raids, difficulty levels etc.
    Last edited by allianceTrade; 2013-10-01 at 04:37 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsutan View Post
    He's saying that if swp is buffed and we do "competitive" single target damage, them why would you bring anyone other than a multidot class to any fight? Superior on fights with adds and competitive single target means why bother bringing inferior cleave or dot classes?

    The SW nerf is 3-5% of our overall damage. It is not "sky is falling" worthy. Just shutup and play the game. You and 99.9% of the players playing this game don't play at a competitive level enough for the kinds of class balance changes you're crying for to make a difference.

    Just shutup, play the game and stop comparing yourself to other classes, specs, players, raids, difficulty levels etc.
    So people shouldn't be concerned about changes that haven't been explained? And are you saying only .1% of the player base is allowed to be competitive? I don't understand.

  8. #8
    If DoTs are OP, nerf them and buff direct damage sources.

    If multidotting is OP, either nerf it or buff other classes' AoE.

    There, fixed. Can I be lead class design now?

    Quote Originally Posted by pharix View Post
    I dislike the dps gap as much as the next guy but a priest is a hybrid, it's to be expected (most of the time anyway)
    This isn't WOTLK; the whole "hybrids should do less DPS" thing died out with cata.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsutan View Post
    He's saying that if swp is buffed and we do "competitive" single target damage, them why would you bring anyone other than a multidot class to any fight? Superior on fights with adds and competitive single target means why bother bringing inferior cleave or dot classes?

    The SW nerf is 3-5% of our overall damage. It is not "sky is falling" worthy. Just shutup and play the game. You and 99.9% of the players playing this game don't play at a competitive level enough for the kinds of class balance changes you're crying for to make a difference.

    Just shutup, play the game and stop comparing yourself to other classes, specs, players, raids, difficulty levels etc.
    And some of us play at the competitive level and all nerfs to a class that is already taking it from behind is bad.

  10. #10
    I am pretty sure SWP only got nerfed because they clearly didn't expect to see 80%+ ToF uptimes on over half the fights on normal.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by justflayin View Post
    So people shouldn't be concerned about changes that haven't been explained? And are you saying only .1% of the player base is allowed to be competitive? I don't understand.
    No, everyone can still be competitive. 99% of players will do better by playing better. The other 1% are the players in top 10 guilds, and those players are more likely to switch to a fotm class like lock to get that extra damage. 2-3% difference isn't a huge issue, it is not the reason you are or aren't killing bosses. If "topping the meters" is your idea of competitive, that's your issue, not the class. Just switch if you care that much.

  12. #12
    Historically, multidotting has been really effective. But if single target dotting is also effective, why play a non dot?"
    Why bring a dotter to a single target fight then? Oh wait, shadow priest are the only multidotter currently doing 20% less than every other spec on ST, affli and balance even topping alot of ST fights

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jsutan View Post
    He's saying that if swp is buffed and we do "competitive" single target damage, them why would you bring anyone other than a multidot class to any fight? Superior on fights with adds and competitive single target means why bother bringing inferior cleave or dot classes?

    The SW nerf is 3-5% of our overall damage. It is not "sky is falling" worthy. Just shutup and play the game. You and 99.9% of the players playing this game don't play at a competitive level enough for the kinds of class balance changes you're crying for to make a difference.

    Just shutup, play the game and stop comparing yourself to other classes, specs, players, raids, difficulty levels etc.
    Do you even understand what it means? No offense.

    This is why i mentioned afflocks and as someone else mentioned bal druids. Aff locks do much better single target dps than most classes. Balance druids > spriests single target. The pain buff for the first week didn't make us op'd on single target.

    As such, why was it nerfed. If it's pvp say it's pvp and stop buffing and hotfix nerfing our dots. There's no reason for spriests to be the single worst class in single target.

    And we're still playing the game no need for you to try to act superior by telling us to stfu and play. You might accept mediocrity but the rest of us from what i'm reading don't.

  14. #14
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    I read through his latest tweets just now, and there are a lot of things he say about "the voice of the community" that makes me really, really pissed off! Saying things like classforums are just echo chambers and implying we are whining always without reason, and that they don't have statistics enough, that WoL isn't a good tool and "ppl are still learning the fights" and blame all kinds of things for unbalance, everything they can think of but their own miscalculations. If they want to make a game for themselves, they will keep loosing subs. Ofc you can not please everybody, but they don't even listen to the most experienced players out there. "Balance only matters for the top 2%", this isn't really true either, cause "bad" guilds will absolutly be affected by unbalance aswell.

    As usual a lot of BS from the devs, defending themselves? Since it's kind of a little late to rebalance classes now, this far into progress, perhaps. It's kind of the same thing as when GC said dps healing should come with a penalty (since added dps is ofc a bonus not to be ignored), wich we haven't seen. "Absorbs/preventing dmg is more worth than heals", is another statement they ignored in practice, making Holy (and other classes to) stay in the shadow of Disc for most fights, once again.

    I am for more frequent (but small and not so drastic) hotfixes to balance all classes. There is no reason to have classes being unbalanced for fights with the tools they have today?

  15. #15
    He's right. Shadow Priest DoTs hit harder raw then Afflic DoTs. If an Afflic Lock isn't channeling Malefic Grasp or Drain Soul, or casting Haunt, his/her DoTs are going to be weak as shit.

    Afflic Locks might be top on fights where there's not a lot of adds, but if there's a fight where there's room to Multi-DoT then Shadow Priests will be on top.

    If Shadow Priests did as much damage as Afflic Locks single target, there would be no reason to play an Afflic Lock.
    Last edited by muto; 2013-10-01 at 06:43 PM.

  16. #16
    The response to GC's remark is obviously, "bring a warlock." Warlock's being OP while they standby "concerned" and do jack shit to locks while nerfing spriests in a complete knee-jerk is their idea of balance. They can't even dispute that other than their usual non-committal statements "wait and see."

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    This isn't WOTLK; the whole "hybrids should do less DPS" thing died out with cata.
    At the risk of contributing to a possible derailing of this thread into another pure vs hybrid debate, I feel I just must weigh in and agree that a Pure class should not just be expected to do more DPS than a hybrid class. I play a Shadow Priest because I love their gameplay. I don't heal in this game. I suck at healing. I dislike healing. I have no fun when I play a healer spec, therefore my Priest is Shadow/Shadow. Does that mean I should do less DPS than a Warlock or Mage? In my opinion, that shouldn't be the case. Classes shouldn't ever be compared to other classes. Specs should be compared to other specs instead.

    I agree not all DPS specs should tie in DPS with all other specs in all situations, but instead have strengths and weaknesses. The strength of a pure DPS class should come in the form of: I can go X spec to maximize DPS in multi-target situations, and can go Y spec to maximize DPS in single-target situations; NOT in the form of: all Warlock/Mage specs should be better than Shadow in most situations cuz pure class.

    P.S.: With most SoO encounters being multi-target in some form, Shadow has been in a very good postition overall. Definitely better than last tier. The 15% SW: P nerf hasn't really shattered that position, IMO.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    He's right. Shadow Priest DoTs hit harder raw then Afflic DoTs. If an Afflic Lock isn't channeling Malefic Grasp or Drain Soul, or casting Haunt, his/her DoTs are going to be weak as shit.

    Afflic Locks might be top on fights where there's not a lot of adds, but if there's a fight where there's room to Multi-DoT then Shadow Priests will be on top.

    If Shadow Priests did as much damage as Afflic Locks single target, there would be no reason to play an Afflic Lock.
    We're not asking to hit as hard as aff locks, just harder than we are now. The pain buff wasn't affecting single target so why nerf it. The nerf however did affect both single and multi target.

    Nothing in the priest arsenal hits as hard as haunt or MG. Even if you bring down priest dot damage and buff single target you would be at least equal to locks. And there's no proof that locks would be benched for priests. Priests being weak now are still brought so why would locks not be brought to raids.

    It's a weak argument. locks bring a lot of utility and have more upside potential, and scale better with gear.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Caliph View Post
    From the front page

    "It is not a goal for all specs to tie in all situations. We fear that would erode class diversity quite a bit. (Source)
    Historically, multidotting has been really effective. But if single target dotting is also effective, why play a non dot?"
    What makes me laugh about that statement is has he seen what arcane mages are like? With their mastery boosted dot (NT) - they can multidot as well as any other dot class (if not better), on top of having superb single target damage. To say that spriests can't pull too much single target damage because : why play a non dot; while ignoring the abilities of other classes to do just that. Why indeed, just roll arcane mage and get both. Ridiculous.

    Normally i don't come down on him but that statement seems so out of touch with the reality of game currently.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by muto View Post
    Afflic Locks might be top on fights where there's not a lot of adds, but if there's a fight where there's room to Multi-DoT then Shadow Priests will be on top.
    You mean affliction can't pull bigger numbers than shadow on something like Nazgrim? Because that's not right. Going from the WoL and raidbots data, it seemed like both specs were pretty much tied on that fight until the SW: P nerf and now we have affliction being able to do more dps than shadow in pretty much all the fights (maybe except Spoils?).

    I genuinely don't get it. There's a DoT spec which is really competitive on single target fights, on council type bosses and on fights with many adds, but GC then comes out of his shell and says something like multidotters needing to have some drawbacks. As he says about non-dot specs, it also seems really stupid to play a multidotting spec which actually has a drawback while one of the other alternatives doesn't.

    I guess the game needs more locks or something (but only affli).

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