does LFR, Flex, Normal and Heroic of the same raid = 4 uniques sets of content?

[brunnor]

Nope - i like cake

[wych]

It's the same god damn thing over and over. They just add 1 or 2 new mechanics per boss as difficulty rises.

More evidence that Blizzard is running out of ideas.

Their massive secret feature for MoP. Their awesome NEW feature was Flex raids. Another difficulty of the same raid? I mean come on....

You're implying all 4 difficulties are aimed at the same type of player which is completely wrong.

Flex raiding isn't designed as something for players raiding heroics to do, it's intended to fill the gap that the likes of ICC PuGs being removed left.

[HeedmySpeed]

If you really look at the difference between the instances you'll see that there is little difference.

Number values change, colors on loot chages, an extra spell effect for each boss.

This is why players really don't find it worth attempting the harder stuff. You get little in return.

[fiestatastic]

flex and normal are pretty much the same content, but heroic is additional completely different mechanics, usually making the fights and strats very different, and lfr is pretty much no mechanic mindless zergfesting for idiots .... so yeah, they're different.

[melodramocracy]

It's the same content, just modified up or down. Call it a time-saver to develop for.

Remember when there were different gearsets for 10 and 25 man?

[MoanaLisa]

I suppose if you're a big fan of the tactical and strategic differences of specific fights you might consider it as additional content. Perhaps.

For everyone else it's a difficulty level that you can choose to use (or not). If one enjoys specific fights then it's perfectly reasonable to try them again at a higher level of difficulty.

Same goes for different roles. As DPS I'd prefer flex or normal to anything else. If I go as a healer, I'll stay with LFR or Flex until I'm certain that I can handle my responsibilities.

If one plays simply to see things then most of the above won't apply and there's nothing wrong with that either. There's no specified correct playstyle for the game, no matter what others say.

[Barkloud]

I still think MOP is designed like Diablo 3. Basically we get one large instance every other major patch. That specific instance has six different styles (LFR, FLex, 10N, 10H, 25N, 25H). Thats it. It is not much content.

Dungeons by expansion

Vanilla had 17 five man dungeons
BC had 16 five man dungeons
Wrath had 16 five man dungeons
Cata had 12 five man dungeons
MOP had 6 new five man dungeons and 3 old five mans retuned.

Vanilla, BC and Wrath people had plenty to do and complained about other things. Blizz has gone on and on about people leaving Cata because they got bored or had nothing to do. The fact is Cata had 25% less instanced content developed than the first three versions of the game.

MOP had even less. MOP has only 6 new dungeons and 3 old dungeons retuned. The difference is MOP is insanely gated so no matter how long or effecient you play, you can only really progress at a certain level. Granted the gating is much better now than it was in the beginning of the expansion.

If the new expansion is planned for 9/14 release, which i would be willing to bet it is, that would mean Timeless Isle and SoO are it for a year.

[Jimson]

I still think MOP is designed like Diablo 3. Basically we get one large instance every other major patch. That specific instance has six different styles (LFR, FLex, 10N, 10H, 25N, 25H). Thats it. It is not much content.

Dungeons by expansion

Vanilla had 17 five man dungeons
BC had 16 five man dungeons
Wrath had 16 five man dungeons
Cata had 12 five man dungeons
MOP had 6 new five man dungeons and 3 old five mans retuned.

Vanilla, BC and Wrath people had plenty to do and complained about other things. Blizz has gone on and on about people leaving Cata because they got bored or had nothing to do. The fact is Cata had 25% less instanced content developed than the first three versions of the game.

MOP had even less. MOP has only 6 new dungeons and 3 old dungeons retuned. The difference is MOP is insanely gated so no matter how long or effecient you play, you can only really progress at a certain level. Granted the gating is much better now than it was in the beginning of the expansion.

If the new expansion is planned for 9/14 release, which i would be willing to bet it is, that would mean Timeless Isle and SoO are it for a year.

BC and Wrath are valid comparisons. Vanilla should be excluded, since the dungeons are intended for levels 10-60. I can't believe MoP even has 9... it feels like about 4.

[shise]

I still find TBC the best raiding model for hard core and casual players.

For hard core due to obvious reasons.

For casual players because everyone was able to raid, not the latest raid tier, but nearly anything else with proper pugs. You would have the chance to get an epic which you were going to use till Illidan himself. Now a days you log in, do the whole latest raid and get a bunch of useless epics, there's no satisfaction feeling, it's not rewarding it's just greed.

[Louis CK]

I still find TBC the best raiding model for hard core and casual players.

For hard core due to obvious reasons.

For casual players because everyone was able to raid, not the latest raid tier, but nearly anything else with proper pugs. You would have the chance to get an epic which you were going to use till Illidan himself. Now a days you log in, do the whole latest raid and get a bunch of useless epics, there's no satisfaction feeling, it's not rewarding it's just greed.

I can agree with the lack of satisfaction found in the LFR model. No boss that they can put in the game will have that same epic "OMG that boss is badass, he's gotta be super powerful"

This sentiment isn't shared by most, sadly. I feel like the awesomeness of content and story telling of a tier is lost when I can afk through whatever boss there is if I so chose. I rememeber back in the day when Illidan was hidden in BT, and I finally stepped foot into BT to experience that content. I didn't get to Illidan before the next expansaion came out (my guild at the time only made it to Mother and didn't want to grind resist gear with the expansion so close), but I wasn't upset. The excitement of knowing that BAMF was there was enough to make BT and every raid leading up to it feel epic and powerful.

Nowadays, looking forward to any boss isn't about the epicness of the boss, but just what he drops.

I'm no necessarily saying the alternative is any better, but having those super powerful bosses locked away, having something to looking forward to and feeling that sense of epic scale upon entering a raid was awesome. While the challenge of HM's is still there to make boss fights fun, that epic feel that is found by a boss that you may or may not ever see is lost when I can afk the boss in LFR and see him.

It's a trade off, but I do miss that feeling, the wonder and the excitement of the TBC raiding model. Working your way up, each boss more exciting than the last.

"Seeing" the content through LFR and the way things are set up today isn't quite the same as "experiencing" how those bosses made the world and the raids feel even if you never got to fight them.

/2cents

[Deleted]

Look how biased you're both of you.
Illidan wasn't the last boss of TBC but Kaelthas+Kill Jaeden.
But for you Illidan was the epicness of TBC.

My point ?
Everybody is different as their taste.

Also, you should read more Blue post.
Blizzard said many times the number in % how many players really did see some bosses and it was sad that not even half of the players were able to see them.
So, LFR was born for everybody to see the end bosses, not just casuals as a lot think.

[Louis CK]

Look how biased you're both of you.
Illidan wasn't the last boss of TBC but Kaelthas+Kill Jaeden.
But for you Illidan was the epicness of TBC.

My point ?
Everybody is different as their taste.

Also, you should read more Blue post.
Blizzard said many times the number in % how many players really did see some bosses and it was sad that not even half of the players were able to see them.
So, LFR was born for everybody to see the end bosses, not just casuals as a lot think.

I didn't state that Illidan was the last boss of TBC, I was simply noting the feeling of said boss through the TBC model. As far as bias, yes, it was a subjective post and should not be interepreted any other way.

I wasn't dealing with numbers or percentages, just the epic feeling that came from that raiding model. For me, it's lost. It's a trade off, as I said, and the alternative may be worse, but I still miss that feeling.

As far as Kiljaeden, at the time of his release, I didn't really know much about lore, so him popping up didn't really give me the same feel as I had from knowing Illidan was there and seeing the BT on a daily basis. I did get into Sunwell for the trash runs and first or second boss, not much beyond that.

[Milkyz]

In 1974, a game called Speed Race was released by Taito (and later by Midway as well). It was the first game that explored two different difficulty settings: "Beginner's race" and "Advanced player's race". Now, almost 40 years later, some people apparently still don't grasp the idea behind it.

[Deleted]

Flex SoO feels like Normal with a variable amount of people - same mechanics, nearly the same damage, different loot distribution and slightly worse purples. Heck, I feel Flex is harder than Normal currently just because our raid group is carrying so many people in Flex that we don't carry in Normal.

Flex is easily facerollable, even when we were carrying 10 other people.

[thedingleberry]

They dont want you to run more than one version in a given week. It's not meant to be more content. Just the same content for different skill sets.

[Nobleshield]

Flex is easily facerollable, even when we were carrying 10 other people.

I'll second this to a point. Fights that my guild had issues with on Normal we typically oneshot on Flex without any trouble at all. The problem with this of course is that we can't reliably use Flex as a teaching tool because it feels too easy. Galakras, for example. We are having issues with adds living too long on Normal, but on Flex we steamrolled it without issues at all. That hinders us more than it helps since we go into Normal and think it'll be as simple as Flex, and it's not.

- - - Updated - - -

They dont want you to run more than one version in a given week. It's not meant to be more content. Just the same content for different skill sets.

If they really wanted this, there would be shared locks for every difficulty, so I don't quite believe this is true. They aren't stupid and KNOW people will run Flex to help gear for Normal or even run LFR is there are upgrades (i.e. you're still using normal TOT gear)

[Draahl]

Not in a million years.

I really hate this system, and i am a firm believer in that no one is entitled to any content at all unless they are willing to spend the time and effort to get there.

[Deleted]

Each difficulty is aimed at a different audience. If you're doing Normal/Heroic chances are you're not going to be clearing LFR/Flex every week. If you're the type of player that just wants to jump on at 3pm and kill a few bosses and log off, you can do LFR. It's not supposed to be unique content, it's supposed to be the same content for different people.

If there was a single player game with four difficulty levels you'd be like "sweet, I get to pick the difficulty that's right for me!", but for some reason because it's WoW people get all upset about it.

[AeneasBK]

No.

If you read a 450 page book during daylight and then read the same book again in darker conditions (harder) it doesn't mean you've read 2 different 450-page books.

Thats true. However, if you read the childrens edition of The Lord of the Rings, and then later on read the unabridged version, they are different books. Obviously not completely. Your analogy is tantamount to saying "If you raid normal modes, then raid normal modes without addons (harder) you haven't done different content"

[rogueMatthias]

Ofc it is same content just ,,harder,, difficulty. And tahts problem of WoW here isnt any exclusive content. Everythingis opne for everyone. .

Heroic mode is exclusive content. Bosses have extra mechanics, different loot. I know it's a different difficulty but it's still, undeniably, "exclusive" for heroic raiders.