Legendary solution...

[saucywench]

I've said it time and again.

Have a few versions of the legendary.

LFR version requires LFR Lei-shen and LFR Sha of fear to be eligible for the Legendary.
Normal mode version requires Normal Lei-shen and Normal Sha of fear to be eligible for the Legendary.
Heroic mode version requires Heroic Lei-shen and Heroic Sha of fear to be eligible for the legendary.

Each one has dif ilevel with LFR one being the lowest of the 3. 3 separate rewards for the 3 different kills you made but everyones rewarded in some manner.

What's the point of having different levels, its a legendary, its suppose to be 1 of a kind. What bothers most people is that everyone has their "one of a kind", the point is you still want to feel "Special". If thats the case then make the legendary quest line scale in difficulty according to the raiders preference...so your Heroic mode version of the legendary quests will be extremely near impossible, outrageously difficult to do. There you get your special snowflake award.

[khalltusk]

What's the point of having different levels, its a legendary, its suppose to be 1 of a kind. What bothers most people is that everyone has their "one of a kind", the point is you still want to feel "Special". If thats the case then make the legendary quest line scale in difficulty according to the raiders preference...so your Heroic mode version of the legendary quests will be extremely near impossible, outrageously difficult to do. There you get your special snowflake award.

The idea behind the levels is to reward each difficulty level with the appropriate item! No doubt we will see changes to the next one. So far I think its a cool way of getting a legendary. the final items a bit "meh" as I will most likely transmog it but the procs cools.

[thedingleberry]

I think the current model for the legendary, which anyone can get with enough effort is a good approach. It doesn't have to be tied to raiding a specific difficulty. It should be based on just alot of effort. The one thing i would change would be to get rid of the raid boss grinding for items. I don't mind it being a grind, but raid boss RNG drop grinds are really annoying. I'd rather just make it more grindy, but a guaranteed item after a certain amount of grinding.

Also, please get over yourselves with your "it shouldn't be obtainable in LFR" cries. Doing the legendary stuff in LFR should be commended because it is actually more of a pain in there then it is in an actual organized raid. And I'm not just an LFR raider. I raid Flex/Normal, but I realized that LFR can be brutal because of derps. I feel the pain of people that only do LFR.

[zoomgpally]

making the legendary such a long grind only penalises returning subscribers who feel they cannot catch up and will therefore be at a disadvantage for a very long time and may infact just give up

And making it RNG penalises people who are unlucky, which means you can be the best player in the world but never get it

[Jimson]

I've said it time and again.

Have a few versions of the legendary.

LFR version requires LFR Lei-shen and LFR Sha of fear to be eligible for the Legendary.
Normal mode version requires Normal Lei-shen and Normal Sha of fear to be eligible for the Legendary.
Heroic mode version requires Heroic Lei-shen and Heroic Sha of fear to be eligible for the legendary.

Each one has dif ilevel with LFR one being the lowest of the 3. 3 separate rewards for the 3 different kills you made but everyones rewarded in some manner.

This is a fine solution, especially since it would prevent normal-mode raiders from "having" to run LFR to collect RNG drops. They already have this sort of system in place for the heirloom Garrosh drops, might as well carry it forward.

[Raelbo]

So then why make one of the best items in the game so easy to get?

You are assuming a strawman lfr raider in a theoretical scenario to demonstrate your assertion that the item is "easy" to get. How many of the hundreds who got it at the start of 5.4 do you honestly believe got it by afking through at least 50 LFR instances? How many LFR heroes with zero skill and no normal mode ToT gear do you think one shotted the Wrathion solo encounter?

Anyone with an ounce of common sense will recognise that hundreds who got the cloak at the start of 5.4 were either:

a) the cream of the LFR-only crop
b) at least reasonably successful normal mode raiders (the top 5% of the playerbase)

Regardless, no matter who you were, you were going to need a certain minimum level of skill and a significant commitment of time and effort over the preceding 9 months to have been in a position to obtain the cloak on "day 1".

There is a world of difference between easily accessible and easily obtainable and you confuse the two.

And did you do a long grind? Yes. Did you earn it? I'm sure you and me will disagree on the answer lol.

Yes, because clearly those who disagree with you have a functional brain. lol.

Think of it this way, if in BC, they mailed in everyone a set of warglaives, they wouldn't be as interesting or as valuable in the eyes of many players. Same thing here, it just makes the legendary uninteresting... on the day it was released lol.

Strawman argument 101. lol.

As for the solo content here.... let's get real here, none of it provides a challenge, besides winning 2 bg's, which isn't a *huge* thing when you think about it lol.

For a "LFR Hero" decked out in LFR gear the solo encounter was hardly trivial.
For a raider in ilevel 530 gear, yeah, I guess the encounter would likely have been trivial. But then again, as said above, someone in that kind of gear already has the credentials to prove that they have a clue.

Have you even put any thought into your argument? lol

I did mention that there was a long tedious grind, one that can be cheesed thru LFR lol. The solo part is still easy, just time consuming. As for "you could make this argument for any legendary".... I've never seen another legendary that was guaranteed before, so no, you can't make that argument. Also, you couldn't cheese legendaries through easier versions of the raid lol.

Oh, you mean like going and getting say: Thunderfury: Blessed Blade of the Windseeker solo today? lol

That's my point though, actually clearing something like Kil'jaeden is an actual achievement, and IMO is enough justification for dropping a legendary on it's own. Was no small task to even *get* to that boss.... compare that to LFR where you hit a queue button.

Again: STRAWMAN. How many people, on patch day 5.4, had simply pushed the LFR button 50 times and voila, landed up with a legendary? Ok, I am sure there was probably one or two out there somewhere. But the vast majority (99.9%+) didn't.

The majority were normal or heroic raiders who had been raiding successfully for 9 months. A small minority were LFR raiders who probably busted their asses through 50+ LFR instance carrying those who were sitting afk in the corner because they have deluded themselves into believing that actually participating in that content is below them.

Yup, believe it or not, LFR bosses don't actually fall down all by themselves. They die because there are actually people in there, a lot of us actually, who are not worthless scrubs doing 30K dps and standing in fire. We carried the bads (who are not getting cloaks anyway), as well as the lazy, narcissistic normal mode heroes who felt entitled to afk through their LFR's (and who would be nothing raiders if not for their guilds carrying them anyway).


All that being said, I am not opposed to the idea of a special reward (above and beyond the cloak) reserved for top end raiders. But the cloak, as is, is an easily justifiable reward for the effort it took to get it and was a brilliant part of the MoP experience.

To say that people who got their cloaks don't deserve them is either disingenuous or retarded. You choose.

[exolaris]

I don't like the new legendaries because it feels like Siege was tuned around them. I do understand that that needed to be the case, because the legendary was going to be so common in raids that if the encounters weren't tuned for it they'd be a joke. But the downside is that it means for an altoholic like me that because I wasn't grinding out legendaries on every one of my alts for the entire expansion, my alts are now more or less useless in anything above LFR.

[Deleted]

Why "should" it be heroic only? What reason for this is there, other than to satisfy the top percents ego?
I dont have it, since i just started playing again a month or so ago, but from what i heard, it took the better part of a year to get to the point where they are now, simply because of the time it took.
Getting the blades from Illidan wasn't hard either, it was just a matter of luck, so i preffer the way it is nowdays.

It shouldn't, it;s just that almost all of these people complaining and passing for game experts don't even know that "Legendary" (or epic etc) refer to the quailty of gear and not it's rareness. All this confusion is created because the lower quality ones are called, "common" "rare" etc.

If you see it in this light, everyone that is upset that legendaries are "common" has false exceptions and thus is acting buthurt.

I Will even argue for a "legendary" weapon (or armor) being able to be crafted (collaboration of many rare recipes etc) without even having access to raiding. After all those "Hard Legendaries" you pick-up in raids were created once in their lifetime so the argument that everything should come from raids is plain wrong.

[Totle]

It's mostly about a LFR legendary, the fact that you saw hundreds getting it on the day it was released is the after effect. As for the "you just want gear and want nobody else to get it", honestly, I think it would be more interesting if the legendary had some challenges tied to it, even if it meant I didn't end up getting it myself. Think about it, in a game where you progress yourself with gear, obviously challenging content should reward better gear. So then why make one of the best items in the game so easy to get?


And did you do a long grind? Yes. Did you earn it? I'm sure you and me will disagree on the answer lol.

Think of it this way, if in BC, they mailed in everyone a set of warglaives, they wouldn't be as interesting or as valuable in the eyes of many players. Same thing here, it just makes the legendary uninteresting... on the day it was released lol.



As for the solo content here.... let's get real here, none of it provides a challenge, besides winning 2 bg's, which isn't a *huge* thing when you think about it lol.

Again, you make the point that "everybody gets it and its too easy to get". You could say this about ANY legendary after its no longer current content. So the issue isn't that LFRers get it, but that they get it at the same time as you.

You think because I got my items on LFR that it wasn't earned? LK heroic had guarantee drops for its items, which means you knew exactly when the legendary was going to be completed. I ran ToT nearly every week, doing every single boss, and when they implemented the guarantee drop, I still only had three Secrets. The RNG was miserable. And this is assuming, of course, that we could actually down Lei Shen. There are still many LFR groups that need at least 3 stacks of Determination to pull it off.

On the day it was released? You are completely off point here. It's not like 5.4 hit and people went from 1 Sigil of Power to a legendary. People have working on this for.... almost a year. It's absurd. No legendary has ever taken this long to complete. The fact that people were able to get the legendary on release means that they were grinding for so long to get it.

The Celestial challenge COULD NOT be completed by a window licking LFRer who AFKs every fight. It simply could not. I'm a dedicated player who leads/tanks/carries LFRs, full decked in upgraded 530 gear (some 535) and even I had trouble with coordination.

Winning 2 BGs is a huge thing... when you play Alliance. I did the Mines BG at least 30 times. I earned enough honor from losing to buy myself the entire previous tier of PVP gear. I did the ToT dailies until I had enough conquest to buy a decent weapon. Do you know how many days that is? Earning 50 conquest a day to get a weapon?

I have literally not worked so hard for so long in WoW as I have on this legendary.

You're being ridiculous. If you have a dedicated Heroic Raiding guild in your pocket that lets you burn through top tier content, great for you. You get to experience everything the game has to offer. But for you to so casually deny the work that others have put it because it's "not on your level" makes you come across as an elitist, a sore-winner.

[cFortyfive]

The Celestial challenge COULD NOT be completed by a window licking LFRer who AFKs every fight. It simply could not. I'm a dedicated player who leads/tanks/carries LFRs, full decked in upgraded 530 gear (some 535) and even I had trouble with coordination.

Rofl I think you severely overestimate your abilities if you had trouble on that itemlvl on those quests.
Anyways sure now that we have afk legendaries available for everyone we should definitely make efforts to get the developers to produce an even higher tier of items I can get by not lifting a finger.

[thoruga]

What I hate about old style legendaries was their epic questline. Legendary questlines are lore-heavy and quite good imo, so missing them out either because you are not eligible for the item or you don't have a dedicated raiding guild (which I don't since first months of Cata). So my favorite is TBC-style legendaries. Make it super-rare drops and make it heroic only as well. And your legendaries feels really legendary.
As for MoP style, I really like questline. So I say keep such a questline for everyone to experience as well. Don't reward any real item but reward things like gems and enchantments as well, so everyone gets to see the content. And only few lucky players has the real legendaries of the expansion.

[Vladimeir]

Rofl I think you severely overestimate your abilities if you had trouble on that itemlvl on those quests.
Anyways sure now that we have afk legendaries available for everyone we should definitely make efforts to get the developers to produce an even higher tier of items I can get by not lifting a finger.

Regardless, it is fair to say that the average LFR player could not do the DPS challenge in 502 gear (prenerf). The other two, possibly. Now, 502 should be more doable and even 496 from timeless isle presuming perfect itemization, however players still suck.

In fact, I doubt a majority of the player base is able to do the step in the thunderforge from what I witness constantly in LFR/Randoms.

Just look at the number of players who aren't even aware of the legendary chain in the first place and who, even after sending them a link to wowhead, still don't know what's going on. (I don't know about your experience, but first week or two of the patch I got several dozen tells asking me how I got my cloak and most didn't even understand what "legendary questline" meant. I even had someone ask me if I could craft the cloak for them because it said "Made by xxx" on the item.)

[Deleted]

I love the fact i got the same legendary cloak as every heroic raider who plays the game, when i only raid LFR because i don't have the time to raid higher than that. they feel threatened because inside wow is the only time they feel powerful, and god forbid us normal wow folk could possibly be as 'powerful' as them

[Nobleshield]

This method of legendary was fine other than A) Requiring RNG drops for every goddamn thing, and B) The 3k (originally 6k) forced valor gating that REQUIRES you to wait x many weeks, no matter what you do.

[cFortyfive]

Regardless, it is fair to say that the average LFR player could not do the DPS challenge in 502 gear (prenerf). The other two, possibly. Now, 502 should be more doable and even 496 from timeless isle presuming perfect itemization, however players still suck.

In fact, I doubt a majority of the player base is able to do the step in the thunderforge from what I witness constantly in LFR.

Maybe. I wouldn't mistake though players having no reason to not suck in lfr with players being really not able to complete a simple quest. Also you probably already had a higher lvl from just running lfr and valor spending.
On the latter issue I didn't really had that experience on any of the servers I play on.

[RickJamesLich]

You are assuming a strawman lfr raider in a theoretical scenario to demonstrate your assertion that the item is "easy" to get. How many of the hundreds who got it at the start of 5.4 do you honestly believe got it by afking through at least 50 LFR instances? How many LFR heroes with zero skill and no normal mode ToT gear do you think one shotted the Wrathion solo encounter?

Anyone with an ounce of common sense will recognise that hundreds who got the cloak at the start of 5.4 were either:

a) the cream of the LFR-only crop
b) at least reasonably successful normal mode raiders (the top 5% of the playerbase)

Regardless, no matter who you were, you were going to need a certain minimum level of skill and a significant commitment of time and effort over the preceding 9 months to have been in a position to obtain the cloak on "day 1".

There is a world of difference between easily accessible and easily obtainable and you confuse the two.



Yes, because clearly those who disagree with you have a functional brain. lol.



Strawman argument 101. lol.



For a "LFR Hero" decked out in LFR gear the solo encounter was hardly trivial.
For a raider in ilevel 530 gear, yeah, I guess the encounter would likely have been trivial. But then again, as said above, someone in that kind of gear already has the credentials to prove that they have a clue.

Have you even put any thought into your argument? lol



Oh, you mean like going and getting say: Thunderfury: Blessed Blade of the Windseeker solo today? lol



Again: STRAWMAN. How many people, on patch day 5.4, had simply pushed the LFR button 50 times and voila, landed up with a legendary? Ok, I am sure there was probably one or two out there somewhere. But the vast majority (99.9%+) didn't.

The majority were normal or heroic raiders who had been raiding successfully for 9 months. A small minority were LFR raiders who probably busted their asses through 50+ LFR instance carrying those who were sitting afk in the corner because they have deluded themselves into believing that actually participating in that content is below them.

Yup, believe it or not, LFR bosses don't actually fall down all by themselves. They die because there are actually people in there, a lot of us actually, who are not worthless scrubs doing 30K dps and standing in fire. We carried the bads (who are not getting cloaks anyway), as well as the lazy, narcissistic normal mode heroes who felt entitled to afk through their LFR's (and who would be nothing raiders if not for their guilds carrying them anyway).


All that being said, I am not opposed to the idea of a special reward (above and beyond the cloak) reserved for top end raiders. But the cloak, as is, is an easily justifiable reward for the effort it took to get it and was a brilliant part of the MoP experience.

To say that people who got their cloaks don't deserve them is either disingenuous or retarded. You choose.

You bring up a straw man argument, but when I say the legendary is easy, I'm not kidding lol. I've never heard of anyone that said "I won't get the legendary because it's too hard". I've seen people say it's a long and tedious grind, but when I say it's too easy, I mean "anyone that wants it can get it as long as they do the grind". The wrathion encounter IMO, gets way too much credit lol. Seriously, do you honestly know anyone that was stuck on that thing for a few weeks? How about for a few days? I'm figuring probably not.

And with ToT being around for 6 months, completing that portion of the quest in time is not "a straw man" lol.


Getting Thunderfury today is a joke, I'm not saying it's hard lol. Getting it back in MC was a totally different story, you couldn't cheese the raid by doing it on an easier mode to get the item. That's the big difference. Man you sure like the word "straw man".


As for people cheesing it thru LFR, the encounters are designed for you to beat them. And if you don't, you get a buff that makes it easier the next time, essentially getting rewarded for doing bad. Why that should be involved in getting a legendary is beyond me lol.

And saying that people don't deserve legendaries for doing LFR isn't a bad statement lol. Strictly my opinion just like you got yours, but let's get real here, giving out a legendary for doing LFR? Really?

- - - Updated - - -

Again, you make the point that "everybody gets it and its too easy to get". You could say this about ANY legendary after its no longer current content. So the issue isn't that LFRers get it, but that they get it at the same time as you.

You think because I got my items on LFR that it wasn't earned? LK heroic had guarantee drops for its items, which means you knew exactly when the legendary was going to be completed. I ran ToT nearly every week, doing every single boss, and when they implemented the guarantee drop, I still only had three Secrets. The RNG was miserable. And this is assuming, of course, that we could actually down Lei Shen. There are still many LFR groups that need at least 3 stacks of Determination to pull it off.

On the day it was released? You are completely off point here. It's not like 5.4 hit and people went from 1 Sigil of Power to a legendary. People have working on this for.... almost a year. It's absurd. No legendary has ever taken this long to complete. The fact that people were able to get the legendary on release means that they were grinding for so long to get it.

The Celestial challenge COULD NOT be completed by a window licking LFRer who AFKs every fight. It simply could not. I'm a dedicated player who leads/tanks/carries LFRs, full decked in upgraded 530 gear (some 535) and even I had trouble with coordination.

Winning 2 BGs is a huge thing... when you play Alliance. I did the Mines BG at least 30 times. I earned enough honor from losing to buy myself the entire previous tier of PVP gear. I did the ToT dailies until I had enough conquest to buy a decent weapon. Do you know how many days that is? Earning 50 conquest a day to get a weapon?

I have literally not worked so hard for so long in WoW as I have on this legendary.

You're being ridiculous. If you have a dedicated Heroic Raiding guild in your pocket that lets you burn through top tier content, great for you. You get to experience everything the game has to offer. But for you to so casually deny the work that others have put it because it's "not on your level" makes you come across as an elitist, a sore-winner.

I agree that any legendary is easy to get after it's no longer current content, the problem here though is that this legendary *is* current content.


People say that LFR guys don't earn the cloak because in LFR, you get rewarded for failing on bosses with determination, and for the most part, the place is set up for you to beat. I guess this is the part where you and me are going to disagree lol. Based off the fact that LFR has little skill involved, to me it only makes sense that you shouldn't get handed a legendary.



And I totally agree, the grind was long, but I don't think a long grind should guarantee a legendary. There's all sorts of long grinds in the game, hell even getting to 90 would be considered a long grind by many. While a long grind should have a good reward, without challenges, handing out a legendary is just over doing it.



And think about your statement about the celestials... "you can't afk for it"... is that really saying a lot about it? lol, is that what this game has come to.... "well I had to take 15 minutes to kill a boss, which was a part of the very long grind in LFR, so I guess I should get the legendary".



Do you think someone should get a legendary for hitting 90? After all, that can take a while, and there's some parts of the leveling process that people might think are hard.

[Jimson]

I've never heard of anyone that said "I won't get the legendary because it's too hard".

I've seen many posts by people saying they gave up on this stage or that for this exact reason. Mostly the PVP quest.

And saying that people don't deserve legendaries for doing LFR isn't a bad statement lol. Strictly my opinion just like you got yours, but let's get real here, giving out a legendary for doing LFR? Really?

You realize many people dropped into LFR to collect runestones because their normal group couldn't clear the instance for a long time, yes?

Do you think someone should get a legendary for hitting 90? After all, that can take a while, and there's some parts of the leveling process that people might think are hard.

This is just facetious and borderline trolling. Has anyone ever suggested any meaningful reward at all for leveling to cap?

[RickJamesLich]

I've seen many posts by people saying they gave up on this stage or that for this exact reason. Mostly the PVP quest.



You realize many people dropped into LFR to collect runestones because their normal group couldn't clear the instance for a long time, yes?



This is just facetious and borderline trolling. Has anyone ever suggested any meaningful reward at all for leveling to cap?

Alright, I'll admit the PvP one I have seen people who just flat out refuse to do pvp have stated they will not do it. But beyond that, I've never seen someone say something like "Man this LFR part of the chain is too hard to complete". Keep in mind, you have to only win 2 battle grounds, I don't think that's really as ground breaking as people think it is.


As for running LFR to collect runestones, that's my point lol, allowing the questline to be cheesed like that is what devalued the reward.



As for the legendary at 90, I'm just demonstrating that the logic behind "LFR guys earned the cloak" is silly using the same logic that the people in this thread have used. After all, some people have been playing since vanilla or BC, so it was literally 7 or 8 years before they hit 90, and they encountered many challenges along the way.

[melodramocracy]

Now I know a lot of people prefer the old model of legendary's, and some who enjoy the new approach. Well how about the best of both worlds. Have an expansion long questline ending with a legendary, and a legendary for a specific class. You could even call it something else. A higher tier than legendary.

I think the very long quest chain mechanic was very appropriate. The letdown is that it's a cloak... folks (including me) seem to associate legendaries with weapons, given the history of them in game.

I actually expect them to follow up with another quest chain, with probably even more various tasks to complete through it.

[Jimson]

Alright, I'll admit the PvP one I have seen people who just flat out refuse to do pvp have stated they will not do it. But beyond that, I've never seen someone say something like "Man this LFR part of the chain is too hard to complete". Keep in mind, you have to only win 2 battle grounds, I don't think that's really as ground breaking as people think it is.


As for running LFR to collect runestones, that's my point lol, allowing the questline to be cheesed like that is what devalued the reward.



As for the legendary at 90, I'm just demonstrating that the logic behind "LFR guys earned the cloak" is silly using the same logic that the people in this thread have used. After all, some people have been playing since vanilla or BC, so it was literally 7 or 8 years before they hit 90, and they encountered many challenges along the way.

I agree with you on the PVP quest. But to each their own.

Interesting point on "cheesing" the questline by running LFR. If the solution posted above (where each raid difficulty had its own level reward), this would not be the case. Also note that people in LFR are not "cheesing" anything. That is their maximum intended difficulty level. In this case, it's normal raiders creating the problem they are complaining about.

And to your leveling point... just stop. It's not even remotely the same logic and I suspect you know that.