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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Garmond View Post
    Ive been reading this thread for some time now and i still dont understand whats the point OP is tryin to make. Every type of player has a raiding setting. Do the one most suitable for you and leave the others alone. why does it bug you that other people have better gear than you? They actually comitted more time and effort for that so why wouldnt they get a more suitable reward?
    It's pretty obvious the 'point' OP is trying to make. You can tell exactly what he's up to by the post above yours. This has grown boring.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    So I might say they love showing off and vanity. They do not really love challenges. Great, I want to hear that.As we pay the same and players don't raid H-modes get nothing from players raid h-modes, there is no need to maintain H-modes like this just because it suits 1% of population.
    You confuse elite players with elitists, just like elitists confuse LFR players with what they call bads (afkers, griefers, people who don't know their class, people who dont learn the fights, people who cause a lot of problems in LFR). What I call a bad is someone who feels that destroying the game for someone else is acceptable just because you don't like that part of the game. The majority of hardcore raiders don't care what casuals do in wow, its a few assholes shitting in the community pool that comprise the elitist group.

    Trying to remove someone elses content because you don't do it doesn't make you any better than the other guy trying to remove your content just because they don't like it.

  3. #183
    Out of the jar . . . Allatar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    I will give you a very clear picture that H-modes are catering to those addicted elitists much more than the needs of normal players. Remember WOW is a online game and it needs many people to backup it. Not just few hard-cores can afford to support it. They actually don't have the right to get higher pve gears because they are not contributing more. People will soon find this game has been polarized and that is the time H-modes will make a compromise.
    You appear very confused about the difference between opinion and substance. Hardcore raiders support wow to the exact same tune as everyone else, their monthly sub is the same as yours. No-one supports the game beyond their sub.

    And are you actually really stating that people doing harder content than you are able to do 'have no right' to better gear? I seriously need to get me some of the drugs you've been taking.
    I don't know the recipe for success, but I know that the recipe for failure is trying to please everyone.

    Forum stupidity at its finest:
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  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    I think LFR should be there still for super noobs, but I agree, one difficulty like Burning Crusade. There's a reason why TBC was the golden age of WoW, which lead to a successful WOTLK.
    I know this is offtopic but your sig gave me a a bit of an eyeroll. I feel like the new thing people are going to argue about is the Asia worldfirst shit.

  5. #185
    Yes but soon you will find H-modes are the least beneficial part in this game and sooner or later it will get changed.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    You confuse elite players with elitists, just like elitists confuse LFR players with what they call bads (afkers, griefers, people who don't know their class, people who dont learn the fights, people who cause a lot of problems in LFR). What I call a bad is someone who feels that destroying the game for someone else is acceptable just because you don't like that part of the game. The majority of hardcore raiders don't care what casuals do in wow, its a few assholes shitting in the community pool that comprise the elitist group.

    Trying to remove someone elses content because you don't do it doesn't make you any better than the other guy trying to remove your content just because they don't like it.

  6. #186
    Deleted
    All i read was : I pay the same as H-raiders, therefore i want to be equal without wasting more time and effort.

    Is this OPs point? Im pretty sure there have been threads like this in the past, why is this one getting so mnuch discussion?

  7. #187
    Very simple to understand. Same pay, same gear. They only play for their own good, so no need to award better gears. Just as everybody else is ok. Can't you understand?
    Quote Originally Posted by allatar View Post
    You appear very confused about the difference between opinion and substance. Hardcore raiders support wow to the exact same tune as everyone else, their monthly sub is the same as yours. No-one supports the game beyond their sub.

    And are you actually really stating that people doing harder content than you are able to do 'have no right' to better gear? I seriously need to get me some of the drugs you've been taking.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Yes but soon you will find H-modes are the least beneficial part in this game and sooner or later it will get changed.
    I wish you would stop talking down to us as if you knew some super secret. Least beneficial to who? You, because you can't take part? Me? They benefit me plenty as they give my guild a goal to work towards as that is what some of us enjoy doing. Your assumptions that you know oh so much more than th rest of us and telling us that 'times they'll be changin' is getting tedious.
    I don't know the recipe for success, but I know that the recipe for failure is trying to please everyone.

    Forum stupidity at its finest:
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinra1 View Post
    Just because a word is in the dictionary doesn't mean it's true IRL.
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  9. #189
    Agreed, heroic raids shouldn't exist at all; they just never should have made the normal modes trivial in the first place, because the implementation of heroic raids was just a means of making normal raids easier, thus completely invalidating your entire argument.

    Seriously, you have problems if you think that having one TINY fraction of the game be tuned to be very difficult so that those who wish for a challenge can get it somehow hurts or ruins the game. 99% of this game can be done without a functioning brain stem, but one tiny section requires effort and can't be half-assed by people playing for 2 hours a week, and having this real incentive to get better and strive for something takes away from the game? Allowing those who work their asses off to down insanely challenging bosses to get little goodies like slightly better gear, mounts or titles is unfair?

    Heroic raiders are a large percentage of the ones that do all the theorycrafting, mod-making, strategizing and so forth for PVE content, without them the game would look entirely different today, as many of the best advancements to the standard blizzard UI(informative raid frames, threat meters, boss ability mods, etc) would simply not exist.

    And secondly Blizzard is lazy and retarded in designing a varieties of raids so guess what, he comes up with an brilliant idea that he only needs designing one raid and separates it. So wow, we are so happy to have so many raids but unfortunately it is all the same faces and all the same contents. This alone makes this game much more boring than any time before while at the same time Blizzard is happy in cutting off the budget so he could save some money at the cost of sacrificing its fun. Strangely WOW has became a game that designers cuts off game content for saving money. Don't you tell me it's a smart way to run a company rather than committing suicide.
    So here, your argument is that heroic raids cause the loss of subscribers and is an example of blizzard cutting costs. How then, was the game growing by leaps and bounds before raiding became semi-casual, and began stagnating once raid content become diluted with easier normal modes and LFR? If you were trying to argue that heroic raiding was a bad idea because it diluted the difficulty, you might be at least partially correct in your argument, but thats not what you are trying to argue, is it? You're saying that because there is a tiny fraction of the game that people cant access without putting in effort, they quit; This makes you not only stupid, but wrong. Raiding content has continued to become more complex and well designed throughout the game's history; old raids were fun, sure, but raids in classic and BC were simple compared to raid encounters today. The only reason for this theoretical design stagnation you claim is that quite frankly, there are only so many ways to design a PVE encounter, so certain mechanics end up being re-used; this is not an indication of laziness, it's just a reality of encounter design.

    I only see some players showing off their H-achievement and spending their whole day to be addicted to this game. This is how the anti-social environment generates in this game.
    The power of the stupid emanating from that statement almost melted my face off. The heroic raiding community is arguably the last bastion of actual tight-knit players in the game; Players who coordinate, talk outside of raids, talk to people from other guilds to learn strategies and theorycraft, etc. Most heroic progression guilds, mine included, only raid 3-4 days a week anymore, I know people who log on and run random dungeons and LFR for more hours a week than i raid. What ruined the community and created incentives for anti-social behavior in WOW was dungeon and raid finder, things that allow you to advance without having to actually act nice to anyone or even form groups; you just sit in your capital city, queue for something and get thrown in with a motley crew of randoms all blaming each other for failing.

    This game, as a game, doesn't need to be so professional and cutting-edged that requires players to devote their life-time to knock down a boss. Yes, I know Blizzard is elitism, it is always the case and this elitism is rooted deeply in their designing mind. Pve should not be the most important part of this game. This is an online game and people should be organized rather than classified. Blizzard is trying to make raid hard and difficult to please hard-cores while I tell you the truth it only results in losing more subscribers. Because people are divided and defined and between different groups there is no communication or interaction.
    I think you're the one that's being "elitist" by saying that ALL the content should be designed for one specific group of players, and that hardcores should just have nothing. Hell you even went as far as to say that pve should NOT be the most important part of this game, as if your way of playing should be the ONLY way that matters. Blizzard has added nothing but incentives for different kinds of players to play over the years, if they were truly being "elitists"(which is a word that gets used without any real understanding of its meaning a lot by forum trolls), they never would have implemented daily quests, or dungeon finder, or heroic dungeons, or raid finder or heroic raids; They would have kept it the way it was in classic, where normal mode dungeons and raids were very hard, and if you wanted reputation with a faction, you went and grinded mobs for hours on end. The reason there is no interaction between the people at the top and the rest of the masses is fairly simple; because most of the masses don't socialize. I can'y say i have ever made any friends or added anyone to my realID from dungeon or raid finder, but i have literally made real-life friends from my raiding guilds. Dividing people between "obnoxious crappy players who whine, troll and blame other people" and "skilled players who devote themselves to mastering their class and raid mechanics" seems like something that probably should, and would, happen regardless of the existence of any content specifically designed for these skilled players.

    TLDR; you could not be more wrong if you tried.

  10. #190
    Deleted
    So many people feedin the troll ffs.
    Im gonna feed him too.
    There is 4 difficulties for raiding atm. pick one and keep doing that if you want to.
    99% of normal people don't care what you are doing, just have fun and don't post stupid shit on the internet about removing features from the game.
    Goddamn internets! Why the kiddo age has become so wide allready, you can't even tell if they are 12 or 20.
    I guess internet does that to teen's in todays world that they just don't learn how to behave untill they hit 30+ or something.

  11. #191
    To Blizzard if you are capable to understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by allatar View Post
    I wish you would stop talking down to us as if you knew some super secret. Least beneficial to who? You, because you can't take part? Me? They benefit me plenty as they give my guild a goal to work towards as that is what some of us enjoy doing. Your assumptions that you know oh so much more than th rest of us and telling us that 'times they'll be changin' is getting tedious.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Very simple to understand. Same pay, same gear. They only play for their own good, so no need to award better gears. Just as everybody else is ok. Can't you understand?
    You don't earn gear by paying for it though, you earn it through in-game effort. How much of a sub you pay is not relevant.
    If I buy two accounts and multibox, should I get better gear than you?

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Very simple to understand. Same pay, same gear. They only play for their own good, so no need to award better gears. Just as everybody else is ok. Can't you understand?
    "Everyone should be forced to play the same." Ok, so let's do heroic modes only. Why can't we do that? I said it should be that way, so it should be that way.

  14. #194
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Very simple to understand. Same pay, same gear. They only play for their own good, so no need to award better gears. Just as everybody else is ok. Can't you understand?
    And WHY does it bother you that people have better than you when they actually comitted more time and effort???

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by billielecter View Post
    Very simple to understand. Same pay, same gear. They only play for their own good, so no need to award better gears. Just as everybody else is ok. Can't you understand?
    You are clearly extrmely butthurt over people with better gear than you can get hold of. Please tell us what has made you feel like this, I am sure it will help us understand your derisable argument a lot better.

    Same pay, same gear, good lord. I have seen some stupid arguments on these boards but this one may well take the biscuit.
    I don't know the recipe for success, but I know that the recipe for failure is trying to please everyone.

    Forum stupidity at its finest:
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinra1 View Post
    Just because a word is in the dictionary doesn't mean it's true IRL.
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  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by stfouri View Post
    So many people feedin the troll ffs.
    Im gonna feed him too.
    There is 4 difficulties for raiding atm. pick one and keep doing that if you want to.
    99% of normal people don't care what you are doing, just have fun and don't post stupid shit on the internet about removing features from the game.
    Goddamn internets! Why the kiddo age has become so wide allready, you can't even tell if they are 12 or 20.
    I guess internet does that to teen's in todays world that they just don't learn how to behave untill they hit 30+ or something.
    We know what he is, we are simply letting him clarify what he is and are now waiting on the mods to lock this thread. It's really obvious what he's doing.

  17. #197
    Deleted
    For me heroic raiding isnt about the higher ilvl loot as many people who do not raid hc think. It is about the difficulty, normals are too easy for my guildies and I, so we love bosses to be a bit (or a lot) more difficult. Gives us something to strafe for, makes us work hard on playing the best we can. So that is one argument against the loot thing most people have. Lets continue to the social aspect this guy is worrying about, for me, just like western societies nowadays, MMO's reflect a growing sense of individualisme. That can not be helped by any designer unless he is gandhi or mother theresa. The more growing anti social behaviour of PLAYERS is counteracted by being in a guild and raiding with them. It gives a sense of teamwork, dedication to eachother and lets you develop a deeper connection then just doing a dungeon which you blitz through. So hc raiding is in that sense social, even more so then any other form except from maybe RP.

    I would invite people who have a bad idea about hc raiding to try it. See for themselves what is fun about it, and why people choose to do it. You would be surprised..

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Garmond View Post
    All i read was : I pay the same as H-raiders, therefore i want to be equal without wasting more time and effort.

    Is this OPs point? Im pretty sure there have been threads like this in the past, why is this one getting so mnuch discussion?
    Because elitists can't just let one guy make an outrageous comment and let it slide into obscurity because it directly attacks their content, but they feel free to make unlimited posts that constantly attack the casual players and their content. The moment someone says the same thing about their content? Oh HELL NOES!

  19. #199
    If you buy any video game for any price, you are not guaranteed to see the end of it. Your skill and ability to invest time into completing the content is what allows that.
    This is true also of literally every MMO. It would be true of WoW even with your changes, you'd still have to level and then do dungeons and do LFR to get the best gear.
    Shouldn't someone who doesn't want to raid have the same gear as you? They pay the same after all. Shouldn't someone who isn't a the level cap yet? That's a bit of an exagerration but there really isn't a world of difference between that and what you are suggesting.
    Gear Progression is an RPG mechanic, it is always going to exist. Harder content = better rewards is just a logical system. You don't even need the better gear if you aren't doing the harder content!

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Because elitists can't just let one guy make an outrageous comment and let it slide into obscurity because it directly attacks their content, but they feel free to make unlimited posts that constantly attack the casual players and their content. The moment someone says the same thing about their content? Oh HELL NOES!
    I don't know why you specify "elitists" and "casuals" as the two sides there, it's true of basically everyone regardless of where on the spectrum they fall.
    They will defend what they do because... well, it's what they do and they enjoy it and don't want to see it threatened, and will lash out verbally at anyone seen to be trying to take it away from them because they don't want it to be taken away.

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    This has been done to death and I have no desire to rake over old ground however considering how little of the population have ever raided there is no evidence to suggest that difficulty was behind the success of WOW.

    It is not about whether players can or cannot, they don't want to so why should they pay for the 10% or so that do?
    Blizzard BETTER NOT UPDATE DWARF MODELS!!! I mean why they hell should 90% of the player base pay for dwarf models to be updated when only 10% of the population even play dwarfs?

    See how silly it sounds when you use your argument for other things that single out percentages of the entire wow population!

    I mean come on they developed a weekly on timeless isles that only hard core pet battle players will compleete... WHY did they waste my $$$ on damn pet battles that I don't even take care of... they could have made another pve quest on there with that time and would have served me better ... O wait... it's not all about me and I got more than my moneys worth IN MY OPINION out of patch 5.4 thus I stay subbed!
    Last edited by Odina; 2013-10-04 at 02:27 PM.

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