People associate "skill" as your reflexes and not standing in bad stuff these days, while executing your rotation. If you compare it to vanilla then well, you can see why everyone thinks the average raider back then was worse than the average raider now (and I agree, people were awful back then. I watched our MC 40 Ragnaros kill video about a month ago and laughed about it).
However, people also don't understand what made raids difficult back then, and how correlating player skill of today to player skill of back then is silly. Fights were designed in tandem to that, and in that sense, fights were harder back in the day - especially since gear checks existed (as boring as they are, in MMOs they serve as the ultimate difficulty tuner, something which we lack today) and you had to do lots of preparations outside of raids to even be ready to raid at the top end to begin with - which is pretty equivalent to how much top guilds raid now, just that you didn't do actual raiding with most of the time and that if you wanted to raid at a decent level, you had to do that.
I was definitely a horrible player back in the day, my healing as a priest on c'thun for example consisted of spamming renew on the entire raid even though I raid led 40 people by typing haha. I am a way better player now however, and that is in part due to the game evolving and thus needing me to be better to accommodate that as well.
So basically you won't convince anyone who hasn't touched vanilla or didn't raid seriously back then about how hard raids were. They simply watch a video and think it's as simple as sitting there and mashing a button...well it actually was, but raiding was tough for other reasons is all I'm saying :P who's to say which one is truly harder?
Last edited by Angelicat; 2013-10-04 at 08:01 PM.
Heroic Lich king wasn't even the hardest boss of the expansion, Yogg Zero Keeper was. It was a few months before it was finally defeated by an Asian guild, Stars, and half their raid comp was Afflic. Warlocks, and Spriests.
you could actually kill it due to bugs in the fight, it wasn't overtuned at all. im not sure how many times its been stated.
these threads always bring out the fullest retard in everyone, and some how everyone turns into a vanilla raider who cleared naxx 40 and muru pre nerf.
Last edited by cyqu; 2013-10-04 at 08:36 PM.
http://www.twitch.tv/cheezy_123
14/14H SoO <Divinity>
"Privilege is invisible to those who have it."
Bull. There were 1/10th of the options in vanilla, even from BC. In vanilla you got this piece of gear, you picked this specific spec, and you mashed these 3 buttons, and if your gear was good enough, the boss died.
You could consider it min/max I suppose, but everything was set. You got this gear, you got this enchant, you picked this exact spec, etc. There were no options, either you did that or you failed.
The only thing hard about any boss in vanilla was getting 40 people awake, online, and sitting at their keyboards paying attention (i.e. not watching tv while pushing the 3 buttons in their 'rotation').
I know people like to romanticize the difficulty of it, but the only reason those bosses lived so long is because there was MAYBE one good raiding guild on any given server. Now there are 3 even on the most dead server, up to 60-70 on high pop. A fraction of the good players there are today.
Apply blizzards model to any other subscription service,you'd be outraged:
Netflix adds no new movies for a year, you click a new movie, there's a $5 fee.
You're in an accident, click your onstar button, but there's an addition $20 fee for them to help.
You turn on your tv only to find all you get are the infomercial channels. Every other show is pay per view.
See how dumb that model is?
Rag 25HC was IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, the hardest END of tier boss ever in its original state (not including garrosh here cause I haven't done it yet).
M'uru was not luck based and tanks did not randomly get one shot if they weren't shit. (Yes there was rng involved but if you did it once a repeat was not hard)
Rag hc 25 was more luck based, oh final dance before meteor? GG an extra 10seconds to skip said meteor ENJOY.
Oh a p4 trap/icetrap on the other side of the room? Have fun.
Both fights had rng, but i'd say rag hc's rng could turn the fight around alot more then M'uru's.
Last edited by Nuckels; 2013-10-04 at 11:31 PM.
Leaving aside the specifics of "days until it was killed," I definitely have to say Yogg +0 is the hardest. At the time it was killed, the #1 PvE guild in the world was saying it was mathematically impossible.
It wasn't bugged. Well... it sort of was bugged before it was killed, and it was killed in a bugged way, but it wasn't bugged in a way that made the fight impossible. It was just that hard of a fight, required absolute precision, it required specific class stacking, it required a lot of attempts, and if you actually look at the list, it is the boss that was longest to be killed, if you factor in bugs.
The people talking about Lei Shen being "real hard" imo are clueless. Yogg +0 was still freakin hard as hell, as was H-LK, when everyone was uber geared at the end of the expansion. Heroic Lei Shen is pretty much a pushover right now if your raid ilevel is >550. I could make the same case for Ragnaros. You couldn't outgear certain mechanics in Yogg 0 or H-LK. Now you can of course... but I still see wipes to Yogg +0.
God no. I wouldn't call him the hardest boss. My guild had very few issues with LK. It was H-Sindragosa 25 that gave us a run for our money.. though I wouldn't call her the hardest, either.