What If We Had More Roles?

[checking facts]

No, I'm not talking about support.

What if we had roles split into more specialized roles, and all of them were actively needed by the raid groups on every boss fight?

For instance, what if we had these roles? (don't get too fixated on this, it's just an example )

Tanks - no change.

Single Target Healers - Much better than other healers at single target heals, but worse at AoE. they can still AoE heal, but it's not their main job.
AoE Healers - Much better than other healers at AoE heals, but worse at single target. They can still single target heal when there isn't a lot of raid damage going on, but it's not supposed to be what they should worry about.

Single Target Melee DPS - They stand on melee range and are much better at single target dpsing than other melee dps. they can still AoE, but it's not what they should be doing most of the time.
Cleave Melee DPS - they stand on melee range and are much better at cleaving than other melee dps. they can still single target, but they aren't supposed to compete with the single target melee dps on that.
Single Target Ranged DPS - They stand at long range and are much better at single target dps than other ranged dps. they can still AoE, but they'd better concentrate on single target on most cases.
AoE Ranged DPS - They stand at long range and are much better at AoE dps than other ranged dps. they can still do single target dps, but it isn't their specialty.
Debuff DPS - They aren't great on either type of dps, but they put debuffs on the boss that are absolutely needed.

these roles could get different, simpler and preferentially one-word-only names to describe them.

Like anything in life, this system would have it's good sides and it's bad sides.

in one hand, it would make the game much more balanced. instead of every single dps spec competing against each other, they'd compete only against the few dps specs that have the same role as theirs. Like that, it would be much easier to close those deltas between the specs, and each player would know exactly where their spec is supposed to shine. ghostcrawler always says on his twitter that classes aren't supposed to be the same on every situation, anyway.

on the other hand, putting a raid composition together would become harder. instead of looking for X tanks, Y healers and Z dps, you'd need to look for X tanks, W single target healers, V AoE healers, Q melee single target DPS, P melee cleave dps, G single target ranged dps and H AoE ranged dps. Boss design would also have to adhere to the new comps. patchwerk fights would be officially dead, since blizzard wouldn't want the AoE dps to be benched.

So, what do you think? more roles and more balance, or keep the classic roles and deal with FotM and spec dancing for more commodity?

[Valnoressa]

Seems like an unnecessary over-complication of a system that works well in almost every MMO on the market. I'm all for new directions but this feels more like a step backward than a step forward.

[Notos]

Sounds like something that, as you mentioned, would make raid leaders devise comps for certain fights, leading to people being excluded from certain boss kills because of their chosen role.

[Bremmon]

Sounds like vanilla..... Paladins are OOC rezers and non-stop buffers... Shadowpriests are mana batteries.

[Hamanis]

They had single target healers in the past, mainly Paladins all the way until Cataclysm and the developers didn't really like that design (Having no real AoE healing capabilities). I doubt they will go back to that type of healing. With all the different types of DPS, I feel like it would work fine for 25 mans but in a 10m you would either gimp yourself depending on the fight for not having enough single target or AoE types when trying to maintain a balance. This means almost every boss would be subject to a group change (Or spec if you make pures have one of each, but expecting everyone to know all the specs perfectly is kinda meh).

Overall I don't think its the best decision for the game

[checking facts]

Sounds like vanilla..... Paladins are OOC rezers and non-stop buffers... Shadowpriests are mana batteries.

one of the few good things about vanilla was that people didn't worry too much about class balance because each class had it's job.

[TheLimonTree]

Imo separating single target dps and cleave dps would make them both too situational for either to be viable. I'd be more open to a support class that focuses mostly of CC and buff/debuff, and maybe some hybrid dps/heals.

[TheWindWalker]

Imo separating single target dps and cleave dps would make them both too situational for either to be viable. I'd be more open to a support class that focuses mostly of CC and buff/debuff, and maybe some hybrid dps/heals.

To be honest, that's how several classes already work. Rogues in 5.0 kept Combat for aoe battles. Hunter's keep Survival for AOE battles. Warriors can go Arms for Blood and Thunder. Death Knights have always had Frost for Howling Blast. It's been a thing for several expansions.

[Togarox]

That was actually how it used to be in WoW but people complained because they weren't being taken for raids or being asked to leave on X boss because it required more AoE heals than single target heals etc. I don't think they will be going back to that model anytime soon.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

You're not really changing stuff, just adding more things to queue as.

A new role would be something like a buffer/debuffer.

[checking facts]

That was actually how it used to be in WoW but people complained because they weren't being taken for raids or being asked to leave on X boss because it required more AoE heals than single target heals etc. I don't think they will be going back to that model anytime soon.

that's because boss design was kinda immature back than.

if all bosses were designed with a number of people from each role actively doing their jobs otherwise the raid would wipe, than no one would be benched because of their spec's role.

[smokii]

That was actually how it used to be in WoW but people complained because they weren't being taken for raids or being asked to leave on X boss because it required more AoE heals than single target heals etc. I don't think they will be going back to that model anytime soon.

agreed

it's the kinda choice you should get from talents, but everybody has a basic toolkit these days and letting a player spec too far into a given role makes boss fights a lot harder to balance against class stacking

edit: it's still an interesting idea though

[GennGreymane]

this would work in a single player RPG pretty well. You can have dozens of builds in an elder scroll game, but for a multiplayer game I feel this will overcomplicate it.

[Bonsaii]

I would, no shit, shoot myself if it really came to that.

It's already present in some forms. Arm's warriors bleave, fury warriors are better single target.

[Romeothecat]

This would be a huge hassle 8 years into a game's life. Not to mention the effect it would have on guilds that are already having trouble filling a raid already would now need to find players for these new roles.

[llubtoille]

that's because boss design was kinda immature back than.

if all bosses were designed with a number of people from each role actively doing their jobs otherwise the raid would wipe, than no one would be benched because of their spec's role.

How do you figure that?
say you have 10 rogues in your 25 man, but only need 4 single target dps... clearly some rogues are going to be benched.
an extreme example, but it's odd logic to assume that more specialized roles will somehow reduce class / spec preferences and benching.

[checking facts]

How do you figure that?
say you have 10 rogues in your 25 man, but only need 4 single target dps... clearly some rogues are going to be benched.
an extreme example, but it's odd logic to assume that more specialized roles will somehow reduce class / spec preferences and benching.

what if combat is cleave dps, assassination is single target melee dps and sub is debuff dps? no one gets benched because I doubt all the 10 rogues are assassination

[The Glitch]

Reminds me of TBC, some classes having awesome AOE, some having none, same with healers, but it caused a lot of problems back then, Maybe if they could do it without making it so that certain types of roles wouldn't be less attractive than others, it might work, but I'd rather not go backwards, I feel every class is in a pretty good position right now.

[Pyromelter]

IMO less roles would be better.

No healers. No tanks. Everyone is a dps. Everyone is responsible for keeping their own health up. This actually is in the game right now, if you do triple dps scenarios. I think that would be a great way to challenge people. Everyone is responsible for their own health bars. All heals become only self heals. No tanks. Bosses simply fixate. We all have personal cooldowns for damage reduction.

Everything we need to eliminate the triad and simplify the game to make it 1. more skillful and 2. way better for the majority of the population who dps'es and gets stuck in queues, it simply to eliminate tank and healing roles.

That would be my dream mmo anyway. Probably not gonna happen since the triad is so entrenched in wow.

[Thimagryn]

What the game needs to maintain is a simple system (holy trinity) that has complexity and distinctive gameplay (different specs). I wouldn't mind if the whole system was revisited and to change old specs into new roles, but making more specific roles would make grouping for anything under 10 man needlessly complicated.