[Frost]Akraen's Comprehensive Guide to 5.4 Frost(Advanced)V.2

[Deleted]

Akraen, I was applying to a guild not long ago and when I mentioned that I enjoyed frost and I was happy to see it being played in pve loads of people disagreed and told me I was stupid and that fire was the best. Only one of these people played mage, the rest didn't. How can I argue my point that frost is not useless? Because it feels like everyone is stuck in their old ways.

Challenge their fire mage to a target dummy duel, loser has to delete char In all seriousness this sounds like a guild you do not want to join anyway. PM me if you want any logs from our raids, 8/14 HC (fairly casual 25M) which clearly show frost as more than competitive (am sure AK has plenty too).

[Deleted]

We've had a massive discussion on these forums before where the very persistent misconception of frost being viable only in PvP was being discussed. At the end it derailed a bit but you could refer them to that thread as well.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ost-is-good%29

Among the mages here it is mostly accepted that all three specs are perfectly viable. The ancient way of thinking is just so damn persistent.

[Deleted]

Show them logs?

I mean, if their leadership is that ignorant this deep into the expansion then you probably wouldn't want to join them anyway :P

I've only just come back to the game so I'm only at 540 ilevel so no logs will do any good it's just infuriating to have people try and undermine me on a class they don't know.

[Deleted]

Would a FCoR (HWF) really be better than normal Black blood ? (Single target) Not any luck of getting my KTT yet T.T

[Fahrenheit451]

Would a FCoR (HWF) really be better than normal Black blood ? (Single target) Not any luck of getting my KTT yet T.T

This is clearly explained in the flow chart on the first post. Check it, and if you don't follow that we will go from there.

[Deleted]

This is clearly explained in the flow chart on the first post. Check it, and if you don't follow that we will go from there.

I did read the Nice flow chart, that gives me a clear and explained "Yes" , but i just dont get why the permanent stats + the int buff (aprox .92 procs/min) is better than 4% chance to cleave + a 15k Int buff every 85sec ish.

If you would care to explain it further, then that would be greatly apreciated

[Mastamage]

I did read the Nice flow chart, that gives me a clear and explained "Yes" , but i just dont get why the permanent stats + the int buff (aprox .92 procs/min) is better than 4% chance to cleave + a 15k Int buff every 85sec ish.

If you would care to explain it further, then that would be greatly apreciated

The cleave does not affect your main target.

[gallamann]

I've only just come back to the game so I'm only at 540 ilevel so no logs will do any good it's just infuriating to have people try and undermine me on a class they don't know.

And usually I wouldn't join a guild like that but all of my friends joined there for the expansion

You will do more DPS as Frost at those iLvl's. Frost also brings so much control to a raid group, ex. on Naz you can lock down that Shaman and ensure he never gets in range of Naz and hence remove his heals from the equation.

[Deleted]

The cleave does not affect your main target.

I know this. Why is it still better on single target then ;? even tho it is a better proc ?, wouldnt the stats + the proc be better ?

[Mastamage]

Going by the chart on the 1st page: your FCoR is a 580 ilvl and your normal BBoY is a 561 which makes FCoR > 12 ilvls higher than your BBoY. If that's all you have to use, then yes you can use it. If using BBoY is the only way to get to 14242 haste then you could use it (Akraen would know more regarding the trinket situations for Frost). Would be interesting to see logs of using it on ST over a BBoY just to see the difference.

[Deleted]

Would be interesting to see logs of using it on ST over a BBoY just to see the difference.

It would indeed!

[Fahrenheit451]

Figures, the one time I direct someone to the chart they have a legitimate question. :P

I ran some sims, they come out really really close. The thing that jumps out to me is that the +haste on BBoY would interact more beneficially with PBoI. Judging by how close they are, it's not even really worth worrying about. If you are good at snapshotting I would go BBoY.

However, as Arkaen has pointed out with his analysis more mages are losing dps by poor uptime on IE and poor bomb management than anything else. I say focus on that and go with whichever trinket feels better to you.

[durrtygoodz]

If I'm running with 15832 haste for NT breakpoint, am I running the haste or mixture build?

That aside, I was wondering what the single target dps difference of 14242 haste and 15832 haste are. I run with 15.8k for NT because I think it works great on Protectors/Spoils/Galakras. I being able to multi dot like a beast on these fights. But I'm not sure if I'm actually losing dps on Malkorok/Sha/IJ etc, by going to that haste. I was going to drop haste this week to test myself but, new guild, rerolled char etc, I just decided to go with what I know has worked for me, rather than experimenting.

Anyway for analysis, here's to Malkorok logs with 569 ilvl and 15832 haste:

25man, 417k dps: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-05...=12497&e=12803
10man, 410.8k dps: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ht=32&source=2

(sorry that they're both on different sites)

[Akraen]

If at any point you are obtaining mastery when you could be getting haste, then it's the mixture build.

If all you do is maximize haste (or preserve socket bonuses and max haste), then you're haste build.

@durrty: you may or may not lose DPS on single target by being 15832 over 14242, it is contingent on your uptimes, RNG, and snapshot capabilities. From what I can tell, you're doing awesome and missing very little. So I'd say you're fine for 15832 and could even push higher haste.

[Deleted]

If I'm running with 15832 haste for NT breakpoint, am I running the haste or mixture build?

That aside, I was wondering what the single target dps difference of 14242 haste and 15832 haste are. I run with 15.8k for NT because I think it works great on Protectors/Spoils/Galakras. I being able to multi dot like a beast on these fights. But I'm not sure if I'm actually losing dps on Malkorok/Sha/IJ etc, by going to that haste. I was going to drop haste this week to test myself but, new guild, rerolled char etc, I just decided to go with what I know has worked for me, rather than experimenting.

Anyway for analysis, here's to Malkorok logs with 569 ilvl and 15832 haste:

25man, 417k dps: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-05...=12497&e=12803
10man, 410.8k dps: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ht=32&source=2

(sorry that they're both on different sites)

I was running full mastery (and 10k haste) as was mainly Arcane, last raid I re-gemmed, mostly to see the difference to the 15832 breakpoint (slightly over tbh, but otherwise I ended up running about 15.5% hit). Gear identical ilvl wise (but different due to stats, swapped immers head for galakras one (both HWF) and swapped gaze of arrogance for spellsword+power core (all HWF), obviously for the haste gains.

Best test was Iron Jug tbh. Overall difference was 6k DPS benefit to running the Mastery build. Make of that what you will, I didn't get targeted with anything nasty in either encounter. Mastery had more icicle dmg and Haste had more LB dmg (as you'd expect). Can't compare much else as I was mostly arcane with the mastery build but I fancied a change.

In answer to your question, considering i have circa 7k haste difference in the above and only 6k dps difference I'd say you'd be looking at 1.5k single target dps difference. 1 fight comparison proves very little though tbh . Just be fairly confident you aren't sacrificing your single target dps by anything worth worrying about taking the higher haste point, just make sure to prioritize your bombs the more haste you get. If you suck at bomb uptimes and snapshotting then run mastery tbh, failing will hurt your dps less.

Logs seem pretty good tbh, I'd stuck with the point you are at now and stack mastery if i were you, I'm full haste now but mostly because it's more fun not because I think it's a huge DPS increase.

[durrtygoodz]

@muld The thing that was putting me off going haste past 14242 for single target, is that I was just going for 15.8 for the NT tick, but you don't actually get any extra LB dmg from that haste rating so on ST I thought I might be gimping myself.

@Akraen I just checked AMR and looks like I can reach 18960 by dropping to 64% mastery. Don't know whether to go for it or not. Damn all these options are so confusing especially to a dumb cunt like myself.

[Akraen]

Go for it. You'll either surprise yourself and love it, or you'll want to go back to 14242 or 15.8. What's a couple thousand gold in the name of science?

[durrtygoodz]

Go for it. You'll either surprise yourself and love it, or you'll want to go back to 14242 or 15.8. What's a couple thousand gold in the name of science?

Preach it brother.

Ok I'm convinced. Going to try it on Wednesday and maybe come back with some results.

[Deleted]

Preach it brother.

Ok I'm convinced. Going to try it on Wednesday and maybe come back with some results.

Frost mage rule #1: there is no correct approach: spend the gold, roll the build, kill the raid; then come back.

[durrtygoodz]

Frost mage rule #1: there is no correct approach: spend the gold, roll the build, kill the raid; then come back.

Well as I'm a trial atm in a guild that's probably dubious about a guy who rerolled to mage this week and is playing frost, I want to be playing at my maximum, there's not a whole lot of room for risks