Mafia 33: The Fall of House Dan'thal?

**Virothe** · 2013-10-10, 11:17 PM

He has some semi-severe liver damage, they are still running some tests and junk to tell us what it really means. But it could be anywhere from just taking meds, to some form of surgery. I've just kinda been sitting at work waiting for info from my mom, So it's been a pretty long day already : /

**Decagon** · 2013-10-10, 11:17 PM

...please don't think that you are the reason that I became active.

I became active because I got the time.

All of you know that even when I'm scum, I'm extremely active. My inactivity is entirely because of my college schedule and pressuring me to become more active with not affect me in any way as I am as active as I possibly can be.

I mentioned BEFORE the game that I would NOT be all too active and that I would likely only be able to post at nights and occasionally throughout the day.

I've been active and have contributed today because I do not have any tests today, and I have less classes on Thursdays and Fridays than I do any other days.

**Kisuro** · 2013-10-10, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by Danner

- Given up once caught red-handed. I mean, there is no chance of winning as an SK in my current position. Why postpone the inevitable?

"To screw with the rest of us" comes to mind. If you're going to lose anyway, why not have fun doing it? That's what I would do.

Deleted · 2013-10-10, 11:24 PM

@Danner
Isn't it a bit late to claim what you would have done if you'd been an SK? You're giving up the same feeling I got off of Kopcap previous gameday. The whole "people don't believe my lie, better claim that I definitely would have played everything differently had I actually been scum"-vibe is practically dripping off of your posts. We don't know what your rolecard states. We don't know what extra implications your role has. Maybe you're Godshot 2.0, and is trying to avoid a lynch. I'm honestly back to thinking that it's too unlikely that a Vigi-kill would be the only kill during the night, given the flavour of this game. And honestly, I don't think the character you claim to have is befitting of a vigilante. I mean, a brutal monstrous half-demon? Sounds like SK material to me. Or a Matron pet.

Also, there's a reason for me to not believe that you'd just give up if you were an SK that got caught. I respect you as a player too much. I think that you're too good, and too smart for that. You'd try to figure it out. You'd find a way.

I also just realized that I've been suspicious of you in every single game. Even in the one I died N0 in.

Vote Danner

@Uggor
Gee, sorry. Never meant to hurt nobody.

**Danner** · 2013-10-10, 11:27 PM

Kisuro:

I think that a third party role should shut up and step down once put in irrevocable checkmate. I'm all in favour of trying as long as there is a tiny chance. But an SK has no chance to win in my situation. No point in dragging it out at that point, and it's bad karma to try.

Yet I do keep trying. Because I'm no SK. If I live today, I think that is a town advantage. So I have to keep trying. Rolling over and be lynched is no good in my situation.

**Lysah** · 2013-10-10, 11:31 PM

Decagon got a guilty on me when I was a serial killer in the maasai mara game and I still fought to get someone else lynched. It's bad sportsmanship to give up, in my opinion, it wouldn't be fun if everyone played like that.

Basically, what I'm saying is that everything you're saying sounds like a great cover for a SK. Insisting you would play differently if you WERE scum is like, the very first argument everyone uses when they get accused.

**Danner** · 2013-10-10, 11:42 PM

I play the game of Go every now and then.

If you are behind by 10 points, you have probably lost. But noone will blame you for trying to catch up. Maybe the opponent will make a little mistake. Anything can happen.
If you are behind by 50 points, you have definitively lost. Give up, play another game. Don't waste everyone's time. If the opponent makes a big-ass mistake that costs him the game at that point, it's just him playing stupid. Don't insult him by assuming he will.

As an SK, I would be behind by 500 points at this stage. The only way to win is to hope there is no mafia team. Not worth considering.

**Kisuro** · 2013-10-10, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by Danner

As an SK, I would be behind by 500 points at this stage. The only way to win is to hope there is no mafia team. Not worth considering.

That's why you don't admit SK, don't fall 500 points behind and fight for a chance to keep playing. Admitting SK gets you nothing, you wind up on everybody's shit list and either get lynched or NK'd, game over. A vigilante claim keeps you in the game a while longer, if you make your case well you even stand a chance of living through the night (if there is a doc and you convince him), and costs you nothing.

And wasting our time? Please. If I didn't want my time wasted, I wouldn't be on the Internet at 2am.

**falbacca** · 2013-10-10, 11:55 PM

Virothe ... I'm so sorry to hear that about your dad ... I know what you're going through from the times my dad was in the hospital due to a enlarged heart and other related illnesses (God rest his soul!). I do hope everything goes well for your dad though.

**Decagon** · 2013-10-10, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Kisuro

And wasting our time? Please. If I didn't want my time wasted, I wouldn't be on the Internet at 2am.

I feel as though this should be the motto for literally every single person in the world who spends their nights on the Internet.

**Catta** · 2013-10-10, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Blood fox

ok I'm not going to mega post because I do not have the energy. Sorry or not.

@danner
I have one really burning question, why did you choose to vote on deca claiming it's because he has not voted, When there are many other who have not voted AND have less cake point than deca? This seems extremely constrictive here. I really don't think you're a Vigi and am leaning to SK with the chance of being scum.

Typically in mafia games the mafia kill comes before the Viggy, meaning if mafia kill the vig their shot doesn't go off. so either way a doc isn't going to protect you tonight and we can force mafia to kill danner if we leave danner alone. I rather focus on whats happening today.

Also something that annoys me. While I agree i hate lurker's play and I want to lynch them all, What I don't agree with is that killing off non-actives is going ot make the game go slower, Killing off active's makes the game go slower relative to the amount of people in it. Killing off a inactive doesn't make the actives post more.

I actually find it quite possible that he is mafia as well. I mean - i think it would be pretty smart to make him do the killing. Who'd expect and investigate the eternal townie?

**Decagon** · 2013-10-10, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic

I actually find it quite possible that he is mafia as well. I mean - i think it would be pretty smart to make him do the killing. Who'd expect and investigate the eternal townie?

People who found his reasonings the previous day to be suspicious. I would personally have the person who is least likely to be investigated to do the killing. Danner was certainly not unlikely to be investigated.

**Catta** · 2013-10-11, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Danner

- Given up once caught red-handed. I mean, there is no chance of winning as an SK in my current position. Why postpone the inevitable?

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And Virothe: I do hope the situation with your father works out.

Because you could have alternative win conditions?

Tbh i find it more and more likely that you are mafia carrying out a kill...

Buying another day gives the mafians another kill from a doomed scum which cant be traced back to them.

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Originally Posted by Decagon

People who found his reasonings the previous day to be suspicious. I would personally have the person who is least likely to be investigated to do the killing. Danner was certainly not unlikely to be investigated.

I suppose he wasnt since... well... he got investigated.

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Also what the hell is a godshot...

Deleted · 2013-10-11, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic

Also what the hell is a godshot...

A slightly overpowered SK used in a Batman themed game a while ago. Played by Listo. He won.
I believe he was NK immune or something. Dunno, mostly just skimmed the game.

**Krayzy** · 2013-10-11, 12:08 AM

Danner, your line of thought confuses me. Maybe it's the competitive nature of who I am and maybe it has to do with playing sports my entire life, but I was always taught to give full effort until the very end.

You wont ever see me give up on anything in life. Not even something as trivial as a game like this.

**Virothe** · 2013-10-11, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by falbacca

Virothe ... I'm so sorry to hear that about your dad ... I know what you're going through from the times my dad was in the hospital due to a enlarged heart and other related illnesses (God rest his soul!). I do hope everything goes well for your dad though.

Thanks Fal, They brought him home for the night now since the hospital didn't have a bed free. But he still has more tests to do and he still can't eat anything, The doctor said we might have caught it early enough that a simple diet change and some meds and he should be okay. But we wont know until all the tests are done and back, but it's looking a bit better at least.

**Robozerim** · 2013-10-11, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by PistolPink

A slightly overpowered SK used in a Batman themed game a while ago. Played by Listo. He won.
I believe he was NK immune or something. Dunno, mostly just skimmed the game.

A bit more than just NK immune. He was a serial killer/traitor that could only be recruited by one specific mafia team. He had no active killing ability, instead if anybody other than the leader of that one mafia targeted him at night he would kill that person, with maybe one or two exceptions based on the priority list (I think role blockers negated his ability for example). If he had been recruited, he would lose his ability and become a normal mafian. Anyway, he pulled off a triple kill on the last night of the game, killing Scarecrow, Nightwing and one of Batman's lives I believe.

Onto the topic at hand, I can understand the reasoning for wanting to leave Danner alive if he is the vigi, but I don't currently see anybody else I really want to vote for, in addition to the possibility that he is lying and actually scum. Sure, he may be telling the truth that he would just give up as a SK, but that's precisely what an SK would want you to think. If I can be convinced there's a better target, I will switch off Danner, but until then I'm sticking with it.

**listo95** · 2013-10-11, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic

Also what the hell is a godshot...

Godshot, role I got during the Batman game. Could not be NK'd, if I was hit by any night action I killed the person instead unless I was role blocked. I was also given the option of taking a fake character claim or being able to track, took tracker and managed to make most people think I was town while alive. Killed like 4 people on the last night phase due to me being the only obvious person to get any night actions on.

Now to the current game. If going by any of the lore which may hold some meaning I do not see how a vigi would work in Drow society. To me it seems like Danner is trying to be a SK and pass off as a vigi which is possible, only ways to confirm is Danner being killed. Something else that seems to hurt Danner is the fact that a half-demon half-drow would be more on the (lawful?) side. But a way to help Danner in the vigi scenario is that he was speculating that it would most likely be the best way to get rid of kop if he truly was a miller (which we know to be false). So to me it all depends on which way I can decide is most likely to be the way Danner is playing.

**Greeney** · 2013-10-11, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by Krayzy

Where did I suspect someone of being scum? I believed Kopcap's role claim and if I'm not mistaken a Miller is a town role, is it not? If I was scum what reason would I have for not voting on Kopcap? It's not like anyone, outside of himself, knew his role. Neither scum nor town had a chance to learn anything on him (or anyone else) prior to the votes yesterday. Nobody could have known he was a traitor. If they were able to figure that out based on his posts (and especially his role claim) then my hat is off to them.

I was honestly considering voting for you as well. I believed he was making shit up in case he got investigated, and even if he wasn't he was still the best lynch we were going to have available. If i were scum, and I had reason to believe traitors were in the game, I would have pretended to believe him too. If I was scum and I didn't know there were traitors, I probably would have said I trusted him so that it gives me brownie points when he turns up town. I don't see how town can ever trust someone who claims miller. Only reason I picked Danner over you is because by the time you said you trusted him, I believe he was too close to a lynch for anything to happen.

Originally Posted by Krayzy

Danner's options for what possibly happened combined with his role claim don't really balance out.

I felt the same way. Feels like a reverse slip up.
There's a technicality where he said "doesn't fully explain" but still feel like his option 2 would have been highly likely if he knew he was a vigilante.

Originally Posted by Danner

As for my day 2 vote... that is tricky. As I stated, there is not much to go on from yesterday's vote records. Voting for the miller is not something I can blame anyone for doing. So the vote record is really not helping me at all.

Except the people who voted for a miller actually voted for a traitor? Not quite sure how you can blame someone for lynching an anti-town role.

So let's leave that vote where I left it yesterday; and see where it ends up.

Vote: Falbacca

Ok, you're claiming to be a vig. So last night you decide to take out Anakso instead of Falbacca and today you start off by going back to Falbacca? I would think if you were a vig you would take out Falbacca if you thought she was scum. I also would expect you to go over a less active player than a more active player. I don't get your logic of going after Anakso unless you were very suspicious of him for bandwagoning my Dyra vote, but then I would have expected that you would have voted for Anakso after he did that yesterday which I don't recall you doing. I also don't see you as the type to be an active vigilante; If someone is bored, maybe go back through previous games and see if you can find Danner say anything about how he feels in regards to vigilante's playing an active role. If you're a vig, good job, but I don't see your logic.

Very well. I wasn't expecting to do this THIS early today, but I guess it had to happen one way or another.

Roleclaim: Vigilante

Tracker follows you to a player who died during the night.
Option 1: Deny Deny Deny!
Option 2: Claim Vigilante
Option 3: Claim another power role (Cop = Too risky to fake this early, Doc = You cant be, Vig = Easy to fake if you already have a killing power, Roleblocker = Doesnt appear a lot here unless mixed with doctor, else = probably not common enough)
Too much coincidance for me, in addition to my gut telling me to vote for you.

Xanjori:
My plan before Kopcap claimed miller was to kill a low cake person. Probably not falbacca since that would leave a vote trail back to me. But any in the list I posted last gameday, really.
My plan after Kopcap claimed miller was to kill him. You didn't give me the chance as you lynched him, but at least I tried to point out the obvious - millers should be killed by vigs. Of course, only I knew there was one, and I couldn't exactly spell that out more than I did. Make no mistake - I really trusted his claim. But he still needed to die. Miller after all.

Then Kopcap flipped traitor. And my ass was suddenly on the line, being the guy who had defended him most of the gameday. Did not see that coming!

So my night plan had to be changed. My ability to read people was at question, and I pretty much had to find a scum to be able to do a decent vig claim.
Blood Fox had handed me a pretty good target in Anakso, if you look at post 319. So I went with trusting Blood Fox's instincts. It usually pays off. And I guess it did.

Lucked out I guess. It's a pretty good start with 2 scum down and no town deaths.

Okay, so that doesn't really help explain why you would choose Anakso over Falbacca... Why would you be thinking you needed to make a decent vig claim? That sounds like all sort of fake-RC planning to me. Also, see Foxxc's logic on #398.

Had I been an SK, I would not have claimed vigilante. Had I been an SK, I would ...
- Not have killed the first night. Just to throw people off.
- Given up once caught red-handed. I mean, there is no chance of winning as an SK in my current position. Why postpone the inevitable?

You've reached BS Level 100. Congratulations!

Here's all we have to consider:
1. Do we think Danner is vigilante, mafia, or SK?
2. If we believe Danner is an SK is it worthwhile to keep him around to scare mafia? Probably, similar to how I felt with Lysah in the Pokemon game. If Danner is not mafia, they will need to kill him either way. Most likely him and Robo are the first two targets (three targets if doctor makes the right save)
3. Do we actually want to trust he will target who he says he will target?
3a. If he targets someone that the doc saves, the doc has to out himself to clear Danner
3b. If he is mafia we effectively control their kill or lynch Danner
3c. If he posts who he is going to target scum know who is not worth killing; This could be 1 extra kill per night we leave Danner alive
4. The only way we can trust Danner is if the SK dies and he takes credit for killing some non-traitor scum. I'm not personally comfortable leaving him alive that long.
5. The only way we would really need Danner is if we think there is a high scum/town ratio and that we won't be able to kill scum without a vigilante. Vigilante's are good at end game scenario and I'd be surprised if Danner stayed alive that long.
6. There have not been any other vigilantes to have come out yet (though, I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to out another power role)
7. If Danner is an SK or an active vigilante he is going to be a bigger threat to scum than even Robo right now; At least, that is how I would think if I were scum. I'd rather eliminate the factors that threaten me the most off the bat.
8. We also have to consider who is a better lynch than Danner right now, and I've got nobody.
9. Is one vigilante really worth potentially one more kill per night?
9a. If so, how long will we let Danner live if we decide to let him live if mafia doesn't kill him?
10. Do we think there's some sort of cult or an excessive amount of traitors? Both reasons to keep a vig or even an SK around.

Originally Posted by Falbacca

Well - I decided to revert back to one of my old strategies to figure out who hadn't posted in quite some time (which was Dyra at 223)

Because that's been ever so useful?
I'll give you a rundown of your strategy in the last 5 or so games (obviously excluding last one):
Greeney hasn't posted much day 1.
Greeney hasn't posted much day 2.
Wait a minute, neither have I.
Amount of scum lynched from this strategy = 0.
I'm not trying to come off as bullying you, but please look for things besides amount of posts.

Originally Posted by Decagon

Doesn't matter what Day it is. If things happen, things happen and if possible, you should be a part of them. Every single person who has used the excuse "but Day 1!" has been scum.

I didn't realize I was a VT and scum the last few times I used that excuse.
Aside from that, I'll post when I don't have anything better to do on day 1/day 2 when the majority of it is fluff.

All of you know that even when I'm scum, I'm extremely active. My inactivity is entirely because of my college schedule and pressuring me to become more active with not affect me in any way as I am as active as I possibly can be.

I mentioned BEFORE the game that I would NOT be all too active and that I would likely only be able to post at nights and occasionally throughout the day.

I've been active and have contributed today because I do not have any tests today, and I have less classes on Thursdays and Fridays than I do any other days.

So it's okay for you to only be active at certain times because of school, but you're going to call me out for not being as active as you'd like throughout day 1 or something?

Originally Posted by Virothe

1.) Your Cake has been wrong as often as it is right, so I don't see this being a valid method of choosing a kill.

His cake counter has been pretty good overall. Even if his cake counter is wrong as often as it's right that's a pretty good ratio. However, I wouldn't be inclined to trust the cake counter if, as is the case now, I believe he's scum.

Originally Posted by Listo

Godshot, role I got during the Batman game. Could not be NK'd, if I was hit by any night action I killed the person instead unless I was role blocked. I was also given the option of taking a fake character claim or being able to track, took tracker and managed to make most people think I was town while alive. Killed like 4 people on the last night phase due to me being the only obvious person to get any night actions on.

Kind of mixed up here. You could not be anything'd (vig/cop/doc/etc...) except roleblocked or the player targeting you would die. If you were roleblocked, any ability on you would work. Also keep in mind that the town had plenty of power roles and I was hoping your role would add some balance to the game. I also think I included extra roleblocking abilities because of your role. Last time I tried to use a similar role the player got lynched day 1 from a fake cop investigation.

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