Bad dps that listens, or good dps that won't listen...

[Breccia]

Would you rather have killer dps that won't listen, or terrible dps that does listen?

EDIT: The boss was finally killed because the dps who refused to listen to the mechanics quit because the retards weren't doing enough dps to warrant their (the high dps'ers) presence, and constituted a waste of time. The other dps that came in listened, and we got Naz in one go.

Doesn't this result basically hand you the answer?

[MrHappy]

high dps is not good dps

this because you tunnel and wipe raid that does not man you are a good dps. I think OP veiws anyone at top of the dps meters are jerks that know what they are doing and thus can ignore him.

[Deleted]

Good DPS that doesn't listen. It's easier to kick them from the guild than it is to teach the bad DPS to play.

[Ailylia]

This is like those car commercials where the guy is "large OR in charge" but not both.

Better to have both.

[Zalgun]

What I will never understand is why people choose to be so lazy in such an easy game. They dont help, they think that people will carry them, and dont realize that this behaviour only slows down the whole process and something that should take 40 mins ends up going on for ages. I would love to hear from some lfr afkers (I know you are out there lurking on these forums too) if, since 5.4 has been out, they have actually been able to finish a whole lfr being afk, cause i swear to you, as a mostly flex and norm raider, after a couple of wipes in the new lfrs i just leave, mostly with strong remarks towards those who are constantly away or die instantly to stupid mechs and similars, with no regrets whatsoever. And since out of 25 people i'm usually the best (not just dps wise but tacts wise too), since this game is piss easy, if someone like me leaves grp and another useless douchy waste of pixels comes along, you would never leave the raid with all 4 bosses down. As an example, yesterday i got into the first lfr wing in soo, at norushen, they already had 2 stacks of fail buff and missing a tank, and i was the only one with the legen cloak. Mind you i dont expect 24 people to all have it, but at the very least the epic one OR the legen prismatic jem for the head. Nothing, they had nothing of the sort not one of them, and the gear I saw on some people, it was like looking at hobos at the poor people's kitchen, I was litterally embarassed to be in the same grp as some of them. In the end 5 ppl afk, 5 stacks of fail buff, and me top dps through the whole fight even though i only got the debuff towards the end of the fight and ofc berserk with boss still at 15%. Now, I have beaten down people for much less than wasting a whole hour of my time on one of the easiest fight in raiding history, imagine what i was feeling like doing to these gentleman, how is this fair at all or even right or even homo sapiens' intelligence level? I dont even..

[Giscoicus]

I love how people are assuming that the bad dps can be taught to be good, but that the good dps cant be made to listen. Assuming that their mistakes are causing raid wipes or very messy kills, then the bad dps is really low, and the good dps is really screwing up. Is the bad dps low because he is changing constantly? Perhaps, although that generally doesnt stop me on Naz. Is the good dps high because he is tunneling? Maybe. The real question is what is easier to compensate for. 1 dps pulling way lower and hitting soft/hard enrages? Or 1 dps who misses mechanics but keeps the damage up.

Personally, I'd take the good dps bad listener. If you are hitting a wall because of lack of dps, then you are hitting a wall. In most cases, if most people are doing the mechanics right and there is higher dps, you can succeed. On naz you can always bop or lifegrip the guy tunneling the boss, and worst case scenario play dodge the spinning axe. If you aren't getting the warshamans and casters down fast, or hitting enrage on Naz, then there is little you can do while keepig the bad dps.

But this is assuming that their dps, patchwerk style, is good/bad respectively and that neither is going to be fixed.

[Odina]

Bad DPS that listen ... you generally can teach these peoepl how to play and they generally will listen to any positive critisism that you give. Good dps that don't listen will RAGE if you point out anythign they may be doing.

I tend to prefe good dps that can listen but if I had to choose it woudl depend on the setting!

Pug for one night that we won't care about : good dps that doesnt listen. Not going to care just want some one to provide dps and get the run finished

bench warmer that will hop in fights when needed and do flex runs etc : bad dps that we can teach because they listen!

Permanent raid spot: good dps that listens ... well thats a given or they wont be permanent :P

[Lord Pebbleton]

On the flip side you can also get the good dps who doesn't listen to listen.

A bad dps that listens is likely to listen to good advice you may provide. If a good dps doesn't listen, telling him anything at all results in the classic "Sftu lol it's LFR".

[Giscoicus]

Bad DPS that listen ... you generally can teach these peoepl how to play

Stop assuming that bad players will be taught. If players can be taught, then basically the question is: Would you take somebody who will learn to be good or somebody who is only half good?

The question is, failing badly at dps or failing badly at mechanics. Pick one and suffer through.

[Deleted]

bad dps that listens would be my choice.

That said, if you flat out stated that the highest dps on recount was nuking through defensive and the lowest wasn't with no other information then that is very short sighted.

[Jayjayhey]

lol OP just trying to make it seem bad dps should get free loot

[Noradin]

There are no "good dps that don't listen", because not listening makes them "bad dps".

[Souflikar]

A low DPS player > wiped group

[Sesshou]

Good dps never intentionally ignore potentially raid wiping mechanics. No matter how much dps you pull, when you ignore raid wiping mechanics, you are not a "good" dps.

As for the OPs issue, if you are wiping my raid (aside from a reasonable amount of time to learn what to do), see ya, though I don't do non guild LFR so that is actually an option. If that is because your dps is abysmal or because you are ignoring some mechanic, I don't really give a crap. If I shoot you in the foot, do you care if I shot you in the foot because I didn't like your shoes or because I didn't like your socks? I doubt it.

[Santoryu]

Any player who tries to improve and is open to suggestions gets a plus in my book.

[rated]

I had an odd encounter last night in LFR. Group goes through a few bosses, a few wipes, recrimination from some, silence from others. Get to Nazgrim and we wipe 3-4 times, I forget. All through the fight though, the dps are hammering on the boss despite repeated yells and whispers, etc to stop dps on Naz during defensive stance, and to focus the adds when they come up.

Again and again, the dps keep hammering the boss, ignoring the adds, and pouring it on during defensive. So we wipe, and wipe hard. But they keep doing their thing and not following the mechanics of the fight, despite the tanks, lead, heals, and a few other dps telling them they're directly causing a wipe.

The question of meters comes up. Of course. And threats of raid kicks. The dps that are topping the charts are the people who aren't listening at all, just hammering the boss through defensive and not switching to adds. The dps on the bottom of the charts are the people who are listening and who know the fight. They're running around getting the adds, hitting the banner, and stopping dps during defensive stance.

Once the bs settled down, the boss was downed and the night went on. But it brings up an odd question, to me at least.

Would you rather have killer dps that won't listen, or terrible dps that does listen?

EDIT: The boss was finally killed because the dps who refused to listen to the mechanics quit because the retards weren't doing enough dps to warrant their (the high dps'ers) presence, and constituted a waste of time. The other dps that came in listened, and we got Naz in one go.

The good dps who don't listen, because the reason why the good dps isn't listening is because the bad raid leader insisting on carrying bad DPS that aren't carrying their weight which isn't fair to the rest of the raiders who are carrying their weight.

[MoanaLisa]

Over the long term--like being a guild member--anyone who is willing to listen is better to have in a group than anyone who is not.

Over the short term--something like random matchmaking in LFR--I think it depends. If someone at the top of the DPS charts is causing the group to wipe and is hostile about having it pointed out, then out he/she goes. By the same token, people with very low DPS may not really be trying. That's a tougher call but generally if you talk with them for 10 seconds you can tell.

Attitude means a lot.

[wookybear]

I would rather have bad DPS that listens, if they listen they can get better and become good DPS. People that can pump out great numbers but refuse to listen and cause repeated wipes no matter how many times you/others tell them are only ever going to cause problems.

EDIT: Also, you can carry someone with low DPS, you cant carry someone that is intentionally wiping the raid.

[Itisamuh]

Well I know I'm in the minority in how I judge people, but I honestly couldn't care less how good or bad someone is, whether I know them personally or they're just a random queue mate. I only care about their behavior, and if they're at least trying to be a team player. If they listen and try, but just aren't that good, that's worth a whole lot more to me than a self promoting prick who's talented.

[Airwaves]

The "bad" dps probably would have done as much so the "good" if there were not doing the adds and stopping dps when it have to. I never realised people find it so hard NOT to dps something for 40 seconds.