LFR is broken.

[Alternategray]

It's always had it's warts and drawbacks, but 5.4 seems to have completely broken it. I haven't had a successful Wing 2 run in a couple weeks now; if a group makes it to Dark Shaman, that's as far as it usually goes. One hour queue, plus two hours for Dark Shaman, then waiting another hour for tanks, then another hour wiping on Nazgrim. Five hours to down one boss... that's a failed system. And it's a common thing now.

Sure, LFR works in a pre-made, but that's not really LFR, and you might as well do flex at that point (unless you're desperate and going for a tier piece or trinket to hold you over).

Tonight we wiped 3 times on Juggernaut (before I left, not before he was downed) due to the tanks being all sorts of screwed up. The DK tank had zero enchants except for Windsong. Pvp gear. And no one could/would kick him. My timer is maxed out (don't get me started on WoW punishing the players who do the right thing with high kick CDs). It's like every fight is Lei Shen right after Wing 4 opened, but worse... and it's not the fight mechanics that are the problem. I really hope Blizzard's response to this isn't to nerf the instance or claim that it's because the fights are new, because catering to people pulling 10k dps (and DK tanks with Windsong) is not the solution.

The solution is simple. LFR needs to be gated, period. A higher ilvl requirement for each wing that gets opened wouldn't hurt, but it's not necessarily a fix all by itself. Proving Grounds would be a perfect lock. Wing 1: open to those who have completed LFR ToT. Yes, all of it. Wing 2: Silver Proving Grounds for the spec you signed up with. Wing 3 and 4: Gold Proving Grounds. On top of that, how hard would it be to implement a gear/gem/enchant check for LFR? Yeah, I know some tanks like to run with DPS gear, and in Flex/Normal/Heroic you still could. In LFR, it shouldn't be left to chance... because odds are, that tank is in dps gear not because he wants the extra threat/dps, it's because he's a lazy or incompetent douche who wanted a fast queue.

LFR was a really cool and sometimes useful concept, but it's gonna die a nasty death unless Blizzard implements some controls. Let's be honest, the entire concept relies on the fact that there's experienced, geared players pulling the groups through. When it becomes so painful that those players stop running it at all... Hell, I'm not exactly slumming it when I run LFR; I'm a moderately competent player, probably average (Flex is fairly easy, heroic would probably be beyond me) and if it's gotten so bad that I'm not willing to set foot in the raid finder crapfest anymore, something is seriously wrong.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

They should just reform the vote to kick feature. People shouldn't have kick protection under any circumstance.

[Creotor]

There was a thread here about a guild leader that decided all his raiders needed to get Gold in Proving Grounds. His was either a Flex or a normal group. Shortly after his announcement, a few raiders actually gquit. Do you really think imposing Gold on LFR players, yes, LFR players, is a good idea?

I personally am all for it, but it's just not the level of skill Blizzard has created LFR for. Not that most LFR players couldn't do Gold, I think almost everyone could... but they just don't want to bother with putting in more effort into raiding.

As far as a gem/enchant check, that does sound like a good idea, as long as it doesn't require them to be 100% optimal. As long as they fit the class (agi for agi users, int for int users, etc.), aren't low tier and are applied to 80% of gear, I think that'd be enough.

[Shelly]

Have you considered running LFR on Tuesday or Monday?

In most cases that's when you get the folks that know what they are doing and looking for a bit more gear for whatever reason - normally to trick themselves up just a little more right before their guild raid or they are just trying to cap valor early in the week so they don't need to worry about raid valor anymore.

[Belaide]

New LFR raid always starts out this way, you must have a short memory. Once people learn the fights and gear up a bit more it will be fine.

[SoulForge]

So your bad experience means the whole system is broken?

I have done all my LFR runs without a hitch so far. A few wipes here and there and then people listen to someone who has done it and we clear it.

[Herculon]

Blizzard should just increase your chance of getting loot on how active you are. Recount shows an activity meter, so I dont see why this wouldnt be so hard to implement. At least this way people will put in more effort to get a higher chance at loot.

[Kagecamia]

Have you considered running LFR on Tuesday or Monday?

In most cases that's when you get the folks that know what they are doing and looking for a bit more gear for whatever reason - normally to trick themselves up just a little more right before their guild raid or they are just trying to cap valor early in the week so they don't need to worry about raid valor anymore.

I never dare to que up for an lfr on a monday night. It is full of stragglers from the week before. Even Tuesdays lately have been just horrible. People and sadly a good portion of the game believes that everything is a tank and spank, tunnel boss.

Thing is though flex was kind of a great idea. Get gear that is lower than normal but still an upgrade from reg TOT gear like myself. However it had a nasty catch on it. All the good players and raiders went to flex, leaving LFRs for the players that really just afk through a fight.

Admit it, LFR is really for the players that shouldn't be raiding. It's a way blizz can make that part of the playerbase happy and keep giving blizz more and more money for months to come.

- - - Updated - - -

New LFR raid always starts out this way, you must have a short memory. Once people learn the fights and gear up a bit more it will be fine.

My tank got pulled into a Lei Shen LFR a few weeks back. Saw 6 stacks of the buff as I was pulled in. People said and I quote: "Hey guys, let's just keep intentionally wiping so we can just faceroll the boss."

They weren't joking fyi....

[Sunnydee]

LFR is broken.

LFR is fine.

Some of the people in it on the otherhand...

[Kagecamia]

So your bad experience means the whole system is broken?

I have done all my LFR runs without a hitch so far. A few wipes here and there and then people listen to someone who has done it and we clear it.

Then consider yourself REALLY lucky.....but then again anecdotal evidence. You may have an awesome group of people and kill stuff with no issues and a few bumps liek you said. But the bigger majority of people are seeing terrible progress in LFR. Just because it may be going good for you doesn't mean there isn't an issue with LFR atm.

[Belaide]

Admit it, LFR is really for the players that shouldn't be raiding. It's a way blizz can make that part of the playerbase happy and keep giving blizz more and more money for months to come.

It's actually about Blizzard not wanting to put the time and resources into 5 man heroics. LFR means we get better raid instances because they can justify putting the time and effort into them if a larger part of the player base actually use them. And the quality of raiding across all difficulties has been hugely improved since LFR came out. This is what the idiots who say LFR should go do not understand. If LFR goes then 5 man heroics come back and we end up with shorter, lamer raid instances.

[Eats Compost]

In my experience, the groups are good and sometimes even great on Wednesdays and Tuesdays, because that's when the normal/heroic raiders are doing it and blowing it over. On anything other than a Tuesday or Wednesday, it's an absolute bloody nightmare and a testament to how horribly Blizzard overestimates the general playerbase's ability to adhere to typical raid mechanics.

They need to give it up and just make sure that LFR always errs on the side of being undertuned. I don't enjoy going through piss-easy mechanics while a combination of 20 AFKers and slow learners can't work out how to not stand in bad swirlies.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Challenging 5 man heroics should come back anyway. Fix the vote to kick feature, require high iLvl especially if you haven't been to that wing before. Fixes many issues.

[Chrysia]

Challenging 5 man heroics should come back anyway. Fix the vote to kick feature, require high iLvl especially if you haven't been to that wing before. Fixes many issues.

The current ilvl for SoO LFR is 496, which is either full timeless isle or mostly gear from ToT LFR. I fail to see how that is not high enough ilvl.

[zoomgpally]

It's always had it's warts and drawbacks, but 5.4 seems to have completely broken it. I haven't had a successful Wing 2 run in a couple weeks now; if a group makes it to Dark Shaman, that's as far as it usually goes. One hour queue, plus two hours for Dark Shaman, then waiting another hour for tanks, then another hour wiping on Nazgrim. Five hours to down one boss... that's a failed system. And it's a common thing now.

Sure, LFR works in a pre-made, but that's not really LFR, and you might as well do flex at that point (unless you're desperate and going for a tier piece or trinket to hold you over).

Tonight we wiped 3 times on Juggernaut (before I left, not before he was downed) due to the tanks being all sorts of screwed up. The DK tank had zero enchants except for Windsong. Pvp gear. And no one could/would kick him. My timer is maxed out (don't get me started on WoW punishing the players who do the right thing with high kick CDs). It's like every fight is Lei Shen right after Wing 4 opened, but worse... and it's not the fight mechanics that are the problem. I really hope Blizzard's response to this isn't to nerf the instance or claim that it's because the fights are new, because catering to people pulling 10k dps (and DK tanks with Windsong) is not the solution.

The solution is simple. LFR needs to be gated, period. A higher ilvl requirement for each wing that gets opened wouldn't hurt, but it's not necessarily a fix all by itself. Proving Grounds would be a perfect lock. Wing 1: open to those who have completed LFR ToT. Yes, all of it. Wing 2: Silver Proving Grounds for the spec you signed up with. Wing 3 and 4: Gold Proving Grounds. On top of that, how hard would it be to implement a gear/gem/enchant check for LFR? Yeah, I know some tanks like to run with DPS gear, and in Flex/Normal/Heroic you still could. In LFR, it shouldn't be left to chance... because odds are, that tank is in dps gear not because he wants the extra threat/dps, it's because he's a lazy or incompetent douche who wanted a fast queue.

LFR was a really cool and sometimes useful concept, but it's gonna die a nasty death unless Blizzard implements some controls. Let's be honest, the entire concept relies on the fact that there's experienced, geared players pulling the groups through. When it becomes so painful that those players stop running it at all... Hell, I'm not exactly slumming it when I run LFR; I'm a moderately competent player, probably average (Flex is fairly easy, heroic would probably be beyond me) and if it's gotten so bad that I'm not willing to set foot in the raid finder crapfest anymore, something is seriously wrong.

Maybe not, but punishing them AND the dk tank that stays on top3 dps and only drops below 70% health 5 times in a run isn't the solution either.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The current ilvl for SoO LFR is 496, which is either full timeless isle or mostly gear from ToT LFR. I fail to see how that is not high enough ilvl.

Isn't ToT above 500?

[Monoxyde]

It's actually about Blizzard not wanting to put the time and resources into 5 man heroics. LFR means we get better raid instances because they can justify putting the time and effort into them if a larger part of the player base actually use them. And the quality of raiding across all difficulties has been hugely improved since LFR came out. This is what the idiots who say LFR should go do not understand. If LFR goes then 5 man heroics come back and we end up with shorter, lamer raid instances.

this is exactly how i feel about it. i'd much rather have longer raids than more 5 man content to zerg down for free purple text.

[Mormolyce]

Like seriously, NOBODY remembers what LFR Durumu was like for the first few weeks? Lei Shen? Horridon and Garalon even?

New LFR queues are always shit for the first few weeks while the majority of players get used to the encounters. It gets better :P

[zoomgpally]

LFR is fine.

Some of the people in it on the otherhand...

OP seems to be one of them

People that cry because healers only do 50k hps when PEOPLE SIT AT 100%

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Like seriously, NOBODY remembers what LFR Durumu was like for the first few weeks? Lei Shen? Horridon and Garalon even?

New LFR queues are always shit for the first few weeks while the majority of players get used to the encounters. It gets better :P

Of course it does, but that isn't a good reason not to try to improve things for people that go in there and try to be helpful/respectful.