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  1. #21
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Danner, excellent. Very smart solution. A third dps Inner wrath. I love it. You are also spot on about the need for a cheap instant heal and I would also value to have Serenity over Sanctuary mechanic wise. I will ask GC to go check this thread out and I really hope he will.

  2. #22
    Gonna have to throw my vote in for "kill it with fire."

    Seriously though, the only redeeming feature to Chakra is sparkle feet. I'd much rather see the spec balanced around Chakra not existing at all.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Danner View Post
    This is sadly true.

    Remember how lightwell was awesome at 5 charges, 10 minutes cooldown, and costing half a manabar? (hint: it wasn't)
    Remember how everyone said the ToGC lightwell was how Lightwell needed to be, and the devs said no for 5 years? (hint: yes was the right answer)
    Remember how Heal was sold as the best spell ever that everone would love to cast over and over? (hint: not many priest even bother to hotkey it)
    Remember how GC proclaimed Chakra was the reason people would play holypriests? (hint: playing holy despite of chakra, not because of chakra)

    I believe anything that limits the holypriest spell selection is a bad idea. If the idea is to make a mutable spell that turns into various healing spells depending on circumstances, then sure. Leave Chakra at that. But don't let it dictate the entire spec.

    One of the things really hurting priests at the moment is many of the class developers for them either switched over to the monk team or are doing both. When a class that has 2 healing specs ends up having two bad healing specs when compared to other classes at different points of the same expansion then there are major issues.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  4. #24
    Just make them situational cds. So it promotes skill and not the current spam that holy has become.

    Sanctuary : Increases all AoE healing by 30%. In addition while the effect is up your renew gcd is reduced by 0.5 seconds, all overhealing gets copied and redistributed to the entire raid within 50 yards of the priest. (20 seconds duration and 2 min cooldown).

    Serenity : Increases all ST healing by 50%. In addition, while the effect is active, all your single target healing spells have a maximum cast time of 1 second, and increase the healing by echoes of light by an additional 100%. (15 seconds duration and 2 min cooldown).

    *** : Increases all your damage by 75%. In addition all the damage you do gets converted to healing (up to 5 targets within 50 yards). During this effect, you get 1% of the damage restored in mana. (30 seconds duration and 3 min cooldown).

  5. #25
    Holy word chakra= killing it with fire engulfs the priest in flames leaving behind a circle of sparking fire at the priests feet.

  6. #26
    The tweet discussion:

    This discussion has actually been ongoing since cataclysm released the mechanic. Here are some of the recurring points:
    • We feel punished for using a spell that isn't befitting from the 25% bonus that we get for being in the right stance.
    • We can't switch stances fast enough because of the cooldown.
    • Too many buttons to bind.
    • Holy was traditionally the most reactive, flexible healer and chakra limits that.
    • Red chakra is underused.
    • The holy word: spells aren't that amazing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    History of chakra:

    The intention of chakra was to make holy feel more like it was "in the zone" when casting different types of heals. When it was introduced, it was a toggle button that activated a stance based on the next spell cast. Those stances were yellow (single target), blue (aoe), green (renew hots), and red (dps).

    Once in a stance, you got a bonus to that type of spell for 30 seconds, and the chakra button was on a 1 minute cooldown. Holy wasn't doing so great with this on the cata release, so after a few revisions it went to a 30 second cooldown with a 60 second duration (so you're always in a type of chakra), then the green chakra got the chopping block, and then the 60 second duration was changed to be an unlimited duration.

    Going into MoP, the "clunky" way of getting into a chakra state by activating it with the type of spell (like poh or pom for blue, flash heal or greater heal for yellow) after pressing the "activate chakra" button got the chopping block and chakras were changed to a stance. The class was numerically struggling at release, so the bonus for being in chakra was changed from 15% more single/aoe to 25% more single/aoe healing in yellow/blue chakra. Red chakra was changed from 15% to 50% more dps, given the chance to reset hw:chastise, and had the mana cost of the dps spells lowered.

    So hopefully that clears up for some how this beast has developed over time, because some posters are posting their "ideas" which were already in the game once upon a time and they didn't work out.
    Last edited by twistedmynd; 2013-10-13 at 07:50 AM.

  7. #27
    i started playing in cata, so im very fond of triage healing and managing mana (sadly we have gone back to not being topped up = dead). one of the reasons i started my priest was because of holy.
    At the time other healers actually had weakness.. i.e. holy pally couldnt aoe heal (no holy radiance and dawn of light was a cone), resto shammies were appalling at spread and high movement. and although resto druids were pretty strong, their tank healing was terrible (lifebloom was really weak iirc, and they couldnt move it around like we have today).
    Holy could potentially do everything, although in this day and age where all healers contribute to each aspect of healing. having chakra feels like a weakness.

    So in the spirit of what holy priests are:
    1. Don't get rid of chakra entirely
    2. Don't change it in a cooldown

    rather it should be a passive benefit depending on healing environment that does not inhibit spell usage.
    as a rather crude example:
    Yellow chakra -> walking healing stream totem
    Blue chakra -> walking efflorescence

    neither is strictly superior to the other but depends on circumstances. neither inhibits regular spell usage - a blue chakra poh is not stronger than a yellow chakra poh, but it is better to aoe heal in blue due to the intrinsic nature of blue chakra.

  8. #28
    I think the big issue with the chakra system is that sitting in one chakra makes the other chakra nonexistent. That is, being in one chakra stance means you can't use your entire toolkit, which is weird because holy priests have always seemed like the healers that have been boasted as being the healers with the biggest toolkit. For example, pre-chakra implementation: PoH is PoH is PoH. However, post-chakra implementation: PoH in serenity is not PoH in sanctuary. As such, I propose a charge system in order to boost the heals that are not corresponding to your current chakra stance. That way, a PoH in serenity is just like a PoH in sanctuary, just not 100% of the time.

    So for example... Say you're in serenity stance and you cast a ST heal. You would then gain a chakra-charge (possibly even multiple charges, depending on which ST heal you cast; heck, maybe you'd only gain tenths of a charge akin to destruction warlocks). These charges can stack up to a certain number (in order to avoid spamming "heal" to stack infinite charges and never actually have to switch chakra stances). If you were to cast an AoE heal (or even a dps move, to account for red chakra), a charge would get used up and that heal would be as strong as if you were in sanctuary/dps stance(maybe the heal would only be 15% stronger or whatever percentage is deemed "balanced"). Likewise, if you were in sanctuary stance, your AoE heals would create charges that would benefit your ST heals. In addition, switching to another chakra stance or entering combat will remove all active charges (whether or not these two rules are needed is up for ghostcrawler to decide.)

    You'll still be less capable of doing ST or AoE healing in the non-corresponding stance but you won't be gimped for 30 seconds just because you wanted to cast a 3 buffed PoHs after a thunderstruck or 2 buffed FHs right before a fatal strike.

    Also, the chakra stance you're in will still be important because your holy word is locked to being in that stance (debates on how useless hw:sanctuary is for another thread.) In addition, renew refreshing will still only work while you're in serenity and the CD reduction of CoH will still only be active while in sanctuary.

    I'm basically pushing for a more synergistic serendipity. It has always seemed weird to me that we get serendipity charges (which buff both a ST and an AoE heal) through ST heals (or well, heals that both benefit from only serenity). The chakra-charge system could replace serendipity altogether or you could possibly have serendipity be a feature available to both disc and holy while having the chakra-charge system be exclusive to holy.

    In a sense, the chakra-charge system would make our play style more akin to resto shamans and tidal waves (which I could see being an issue due to complaints about class homogenization.)

    Ultimately however, Blizzard is happy because their chakra system is still in game while holy priests themselves feel less gimped for using non-corresponding heals whenever they're in a particular chakra stance with this idea.

  9. #29
    I would like to see it changed into a multi-purpose spell that changes depending on the last spells used.
    Unleash Chakra 2 sec cast 5 seconds cooldown
    Unleash your stored mental energy to heal your target for x or deal y damage by manifesting into different forms depending on your spells used.

    Chakra passive
    For every spell used Unleash Chakra gains the following effects stacking up to 3 times.
    Renew: Heals for 40% of the initial heal over 10 seconds.
    Flash Heal: Critical chance increased by 25% and cast time reduced by 33%. (heals only)
    Greater Heal: Healing Increased by 40%.
    Prayer of Healing/Circle of Healing: Heals up to 6 nearby targets for 40% of its effect.
    Mind Sear (per tick): Deals 40% of its damage over 10 seconds to up to 6 nearby targets.
    Smite: Damage increased by 60%.
    Heal: Mana cost reduced by 30%.

    You can gain all of these effects, but it will take a long time. Also, Heal spells will only buff Unleash Chakra if used as a heal and vice versa. Example: If you cast Renew 2 times, Prayer of Healing 3 times, and Smite 2 times your next Unleash Chakra if used as a heal will heal up to 6 targets AND place a HoT on them for 80% of the initial heal. It will only deal additional 120% damage if used on a hostile target and it won't heal at all but it won't consume the charges either.
    To complement that effect:
    Mental Training Toggled
    Reduce the cast time, mana cost and effect of your Greater Heal, Flash Heal, Heal, Prayer of Healing, and Smite by 30%. Chakra charges yet unleashed will increase healing or damage by 10% per charge.

    Inner Force 3 minutes cooldown
    Increase all healing and damage done by 15% and makes the energy of your Unleash Chakra manifest into its most powerful forms. Last 18 seconds.

    It might seem complicated but it is simple actually. A holy only spell called Unleash Chakra gains additional effects depending on the last spells used. Mental Training allows you to cast your main spells faster while keeping the overall throughput and mana usage constant. If you don't use Unleash Chakra, then you are left with a 30% faster cheaper spells. Inner Force is a throughput cooldown that is centered around Unleash Chakra.

  10. #30
    I don't like being locked out, i would like to be as strong ST and AoE at same time like it used to be before chakra was implemented, every healer can do both were the only healer that has to choose ST or AoE, even as 10m i spend more of my time in sanctuary but i'm still healing the tanks, i would be all for it being a passive like the poster before me suggested.

  11. #31
    Stood in the Fire PhillieB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Remove it completly, they've never been fun and they are not iconic. If we are talking compensation i'd love to see something along the lines or raid util. I've been playing my resto dudu quite abit lately and it's just miles and miles ahead in util.

  12. #32
    Herald of the Titans MrApple's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Just remove all the different chakras and replace them with only one buff called "Chakra" that has all the perks of the chakras in one buff. Fixed.

  13. #33
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    The more I think of it, they should give us some utility if they rework Chakra. Hpriest has been in need of that for a long time now. Exactly what doesn't matter, but we need more value than only raw output.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by MrApple View Post
    Just remove all the different chakras and replace them with only one buff called "Chakra" that has all the perks of the chakras in one buff. Fixed.
    This would be great but not sure they will do that we don't get much love.

  15. #35
    I like the idea Danner mentioned, dropping Chakra: Sanctuary and just keeping the other two, while buffing the healing done in Chakra: Serenity to make up for the loss of AoE potency through Sanctuary. I really like HW: Serenity, and the Renew refresh mechanic, but on several fights I feel like I'm gimping myself for not being in Sanctuary Chakra when I need to toss out some AoE healing.

  16. #36
    Istill can't believe how bad this expansion was for hpriests. Sure, people who know and love the spec could get alot out of it, but the spec feels too situational due to heavy amounts of overhealing. I did flex the other day with 12 people and 2 other healers, and I ended up each fight with 100% mana due to NOTHING to heal. Now, I know Flex raiding isn't really raiding and isn't really the example of the damage in fights, but in the damage that was there, I was getting sniped so quickly I just couldn't get a heal faster than our Shammy's HR got everyone up quickly. At the end I gave up, went disc, and topped the meters with a heavy dose of dps as well.

    At times holy feels like an overkill, but also too easily sniped and outdated, so the power of the spec just doesn't get a chance to be fully displayed. Where in Cata I enjoyed DS HC as holy, the fights in MoP - I just don't. SoO is just another raid where the spec has very few fights to shine. They need to not only remove Chakra, the spec needs on overhaul, its oudated and while I love some of its tools, they're not balanced and aren't synced.
    Last edited by Blachshma; 2013-10-14 at 10:26 AM.

  17. #37
    I don't think that Chakra changes could really do something to current state of Holy. They need to rebalance the spells:
    - PoH should not anymore be tied to group, and should have healing done increased.
    - Mastery should be reworked from 100% overhealing shit to something useful. Something that increases plain healing output would be nice. Holy Priests always were the iconic healers of this game, it is logical that their healing must be the strongest one, while at the moment they have the weakest one healing amongst all healers. I think holy priests and resto druids masteries should be switched. It is yet again logical, since Druids are iconic masters of the hots, and their mastery should also be tied around hots.
    - CoH healing should be increased at least for 70%.
    - Renew should tick every second, as well as Sanctuary or Hymn.
    - Chakra buffs should be baseline, and instead of giving us a choice of what spells to have on par with other healer ones, aoe or single, we should have baseline equality AND throughput increase cooldown, like some other priests here offered. Something like this: press ST chakra - get +25% ST healing, press aoe chakra - get +25% aoe, once per 1.5 minutes, something like that. Red chakra should give us the ability to heal with damage, to make us on par with Discs in this particular matter.
    - I really can't imagine anything being done with Sanctuary spell, it is a plain reflection of shit design. Told that back in pre-cata, when this kind of spells introduced first time - there had to be no place for such nobrain healer spells. Too bad Blizzard gone to far this way, and they not only have the whole healer spec designed around healing of such spell (guess who?), but also they now added absolutely absurd neverending cheap efflorence to druids.
    - We should finally have some non-spirit non-combat based regen ability. Something like "press and receive 20% mana" once per 2 minutes. Or, baseline manacosts for our spells should be decreased instead. Having to get 14+k spirit for comfort playing while other healers stand at 11-12k is yet again a bad design. It is like having to get 2% more hit over standart cap for damage dealing spec. Absurd.

    Though, with absorbation staying overtuned and the numbers of smart nobrain heals nowadays, I don't really believe anything could help the current situation. Everything listed above is no more than a mere bandaid; it won't change the state of us being sniped everywhere. Ironically, we can show the true power of our spec only when there are no other healers around. I find this both amusing and sad.

  18. #38
    On the topic of damage/heal-over-time spells, I think they should remove the concept of ticking. If ticking causes far too much server lag, they shouldn't do it.

    Instead of ticking, the effect should simply make the bar go up and down, gradually.
    The server tells the client to grow the HP bar of a player for X milliseconds, at a rate of Y HP / millisecond. Every frame, the visual indicator updates.
    But it is really only a visual illusion caused by the client side.

    Actual HP changes should occur only when one of two things happen:
    - HoT Effect ends. This forces the actual HP to update, and the server can sync this with the client as a "set client's player hp to what I say it is" server message.
    - Something forces a player to take damage or healing. Whenever that happens, the actual HP is updated by accumulating all HP gained up to that point. This is applied as a heal. Then damage or healing is applied. Effectively we get near-perfect Hot flow, and the server only have to calculate it when absolutely necessary.

    Less work for the server, no data traffic unless state changes.

    Can do the same with DoTs as well. Just need to also project and test if the player is dead at some point. This can be estimated based on time-until-the-dot-kills-you.
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  19. #39
    What I find funny is disc priests were scared about the nerfs in 5.2, and were afraid they'd have to respec Holy. They ended up being the kings of ToT, just like in 5.1, regardless of nerfs. Just pre 5.4, where more nerfs came (Rapture, SS), again the same disc priests were scared,a nd again they ended up vastly superior and far more represented in HC progression than holy. The Garrosh HC proves that in optimal conditions, Holy is a beast, perhaps more than any other healer, but on normal conditions, it doesn't cut it.

  20. #40
    Remove it. Chakra is the reason I can't stand to play Holy.

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