What do you want to see done to paladins in the next expansion?

**nyc81991** · 2013-12-12, 06:33 AM

I think it would be pretty awesome if the level 100 talent "Final Verdict" was redesigned to this for Ret,

Divine Verdict : Deals 225% weapon damage as Holy to all targets within 8 yards and applies Censure. Cost 3 Holy Power. Replaces Templar's Verdict and Divine Storm.

Deleted · 2013-12-12, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by nyc81991

I think it would be pretty awesome if the level 100 talent "Final Verdict" was redesigned to this for Ret,

Divine Verdict : Deals 225% weapon damage as Holy to all targets within 8 yards and applies Censure. Cost 3 Holy Power. Replaces Templar's Verdict and Divine Storm.

Eh, I dunno. I'm generally not in favour of anything that lowers the skill-cap of specs, and I feel like giving us Censure-spreading for free, as well as removing any element of thought from whether to use DS or TV would make us even more faceroll than we already are. While we'll still have a roundabout element of DoT-snapshotting with ES if that stays unchanged (having to pop it as soon as trinkets proc to ensure last tick happens with max trinkets up, instead of waiting for all trinkets to be up before popping it), we're easy enough to play as it is. Letting us blindly mash one finisher no matter the situation would be ever-so-slightly depressing.

That said, Jesus H. Christ, if your suggestion wouldn't make us the top melee on any sustained cleave fight, nothing will.

Deleted · 2013-12-12, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius

While we'll still have a roundabout element of DoT-snapshotting with ES if that stays unchanged .

Pretty sure they've already said this will be changed in WoD.

**tankbug** · 2013-12-12, 02:00 PM

-A holy runeforge where the paladin can use his faith to imbue weapons and shields with different effects
-More bright colors of white, red and golden plate gear to give us proper templar or holy knight vibes.
-The ability to use staff. Holy paladins can use them, and retribution paladins can make some nice str-polarm transmogs.
-A cleave animation of light when you're using the righteous-seal.

Deleted · 2013-12-12, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by tankbug

-A holy runeforge where the paladin can use his faith to imbue weapons and shields with different effects

Translation: I'm too poor to enchant my weapons and want to do it for free like DKs.

Originally Posted by tankbug

-More bright colors of white, red and golden plate gear to give us proper templar or holy knight vibes.

Translation: I rolled a dwarf and need to look shiny to draw attention from the fact I have no knees.

Originally Posted by tankbug

-The ability to use staff. Holy paladins can use them, and retribution paladins can make some nice str-polarm transmogs.

Translation: I wanted a monk really but they don't get a glowing angel of death every 3 minutes, just some sad looking tiger.

Originally Posted by tankbug

-A cleave animation of light when you're using the righteous-seal.

Translation: I'm using seal of righteousness. I need to look good to cover up the fact I'm doing no damage.

Lets go ahead and keep posting on topic, keep it constructive, and keep the attitude and sarcasm out of the posts. Thanks.

**Swampmoose** · 2013-12-12, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Lumineus

But why take your word for it when the WoL rankings from September 2010 are readily available?

http://web.archive.org/web/201009281...rgut/25H/dps/?

Lol, I feel like I'm reliving the old days in here. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you looked at the link, but here's what I see on my end (could just be me). Page 1 and 2 look like they might be ok. Once I get to page 3 of your link, dps numbers go up to 70k and fight times go down to 1 minute. Page 4 and beyond doesn't even exist.

Then, if I go into retribution alone, the first page ranges from 19k - 18k, and then page 2 starts at 15k. A lot of data missing in between. Same for Fire, same for Fury, although Fury starts at 18k even though there are 20k+ on the page with all specs.

So as of now I'm going to have to assume that link is completely useless. Page 1 and 2 of the initial link are the only two that appear useful, although page 1 is mostly outliers considering the 3k range between 12 fire mages (which is why I did an average of 120). I kept those in for the spreadsheet though to give the naysayers the benefit of the doubt. If this is not the case on your end, I welcome you to put together the information as I did. I will definitely try again when I'm not on my stone-age work laptop.

If you don't trust my info, well that's unfortunate. I pulled all of it directly from WoL when the pages were current. You can compare quite a few of the numbers on the first page and a lot of it still seems consistent.

Again, I'm sorry if you were replaced by druids or rogues even though you should have been competitive with those classes. And in regards to Shadowmourne, it was safe to assume that most warriors, dks, and paladins on the tops of these charts at the time I put this together were all using it. I believe we were on our 3rd or 4th one at the time. So that weapon isn't changing our position relative to those classes. Those classes would just take a slight shift downward relative to non-shadowmourne classes, putting us more in line with average, rather than above average, but I don't think we need to remove something was readily available to many at that point.

Fact is we were decent in Wrath, and very good in ICC. Most people who say otherwise are just looking for an excuse as to why they are falling well short of the average.

Originally Posted by Neldarie

Ret was carried by 3 things in ICC really (broken proc mechanics with TaJ = 1, Shadowmourne proc abuse = 2, and of course everyone remembers stormspam resetting on swings = 3). Ret procrate was heavily fixed/nerfed/shattered just as Cataclysm was comming around if people remember.

Those 3 things alligning for one tier of all content in Wrath is where all if not most bias about "how good it was" lies.

So objects or mechanics put in the game, designed to give us (and other classes) a dps increase, should be discredited because they....did what they were supposed to do? Enough with the "yeah buts." If you didn't have those items, you weren't raiding enough to need to worry about your dps anyways.

**nightfalls** · 2013-12-12, 04:55 PM

There's almost no point to looking back to Wrath whatsoever. Not only paladins, but all classes and game/role philosophy have changed so much since then that any conclusions one can draw would be 100% irrelevant.

**Fullmetal89** · 2013-12-12, 05:04 PM

The removal of Holy Power at least for Ret. I haven't touched my paladin since they added that horrific resource to our class. It's a shame because Paladin was my main class through all of BC/Wrath.

**Neldarie** · 2013-12-12, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Swampmoose

So objects or mechanics put in the game, designed to give us (and other classes) a dps increase, should be discredited because they....did what they were supposed to do? Enough with the "yeah buts." If you didn't have those items, you weren't raiding enough to need to worry about your dps anyways.

Well if those said "mechanics" were indeed what they were and not deemed as "exploiting" mother nature of the game, I'm sure Blizzard wouldn't be adamant about how the way Seals + abilities proced things for Ret would need any changing. Fact was with those 3 things ret basically "ascended" from zero to hero (and from class design pov that is not ok). And ye I had all 3 to experience those flavours. Remember early Bryntroll thing aswell I guess? Same concept.

**Vash The Stampede** · 2013-12-12, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by voidspark

There's almost no point to looking back to Wrath whatsoever. Not only paladins, but all classes and game/role philosophy have changed so much since then that any conclusions one can draw would be 100% irrelevant.

So history is irrelevant to you?

Originally Posted by tankbug

-A holy runeforge where the paladin can use his faith to imbue weapons and shields with different effects

I wouldn't be against unique weapon enchants for classes in the game, but not free ones. Like how glyphs are unique to class spells, you could have special weapon enchants for classes. Enchanters do have to make their money.

-More bright colors of white, red and golden plate gear to give us proper templar or holy knight vibes.

Would rather see more weapons like this then armor. Got plenty of armor with that style.

-The ability to use staff. Holy paladins can use them, and retribution paladins can make some nice str-polarm transmogs.

Staffs don't really fit Paladins. Might as well give us wands then.

-A cleave animation of light when you're using the righteous-seal.

That's asking a little too much from the artists for an animation that only occurs when you use a Seal. Especially when the game has so much pollution going on during boss fights.

**nightfalls** · 2013-12-12, 08:32 PM