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  1. #541
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murderdoll View Post
    What a ridiculously simplistic view of it.

    Its like comparing a dog and a cat and coming to the conclusion that they both hair fur and four legs, therefore they are the same.
    but they kinda are.
    .


    When someone asks you if you're a god, YOU SAY 'YES'!

  2. #542
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kagonos View Post
    They can't incentivize true tanks to do more LFR to reduce queue times (any more than they already do with the satchels) !
    Actually they could do 2 things that would help in keeping / getting some tanks in.

    1) If you look at LFR que and you see satchel no matter how many people come or go so long as you kill teh last boss you get stchel. The current *if one person leaves you don't get satchel* model is NOT working... if all you are there for is satchel as soon as one person leaves is not working out so well!

    2) Make sure the satchel has something to do with class spec! I know I can't be alone that goes 'WTF" when I get a int flask! Not asking for more mounts or gold or anythign but just class spec apropriate bonuses or more valor woudl be nice. Kind of like "hey this group needs you and we knwo you need to cap valor...let's help eachother" > tnx for the help hers...a...hmm spirit poition...yeay you got spirit now!!

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by the View Post
    Hi Compstance, thank you for summing up your ideas for the late comers. You've seemed pretty dedicated to the thread and vocal in it. You've given reasons why there are a lack of tanks in LFR. What changes to the game do you think would convince people to tank in LFR? A change in the community will not happen without a change to the game.
    Anonymity is the problem. People will do and say things when they're anonymous that they would never do when their reputation is at stake.

    As long as LFR remains anonymous matchmaking, I see the problem continuing to get worse.

    I sincerely hope that Flex replaces it next expansion. Or, if they seek to keep it, make an "easier" version of Flex for the LFR Community. That way LFR-goers can still have their fun, but still require se level of social accountability.

  4. #544
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the View Post
    Hi Compstance, thank you for summing up your ideas for the late comers. You've seemed pretty dedicated to the thread and vocal in it. You've given reasons why there are a lack of tanks in LFR. What changes to the game do you think would convince people to tank in LFR? A change in the community will not happen without a change to the game.
    Can't speak for compstance but for myself one thing that would help is more 5 mans that re-inforce the use of tank CD's while you level / gear up. The #1 problem with new tanks is nothign up untill raids challenges them or teaches them how to use all there abilities. prooving grounds helps a bit but a class specific one that would show the benefits of the abilities and when to use them might be more in order now and the dungeon journal while good Lacks sooooooo much.

    Ex as a prot war knowing you can spell refelct and mass spel reflect the frost shit on dark shamans helps TONS. spell reflecting when in the test on Norushen > interupting = you don't get hit with the cast and deal a good chunk of dmg to the add and get out faster, reflect arrows on galk, reflect drill shit on Iron J Etc. Now where other than a fan site or talking to another prot war are you supose to find this information? What to use when and what abilities can be mitigated by what is the #1 lacking component to help new tanks in my opinion and is what makes tanking LFR for new tanks too daunting beyond the group pressure! you got all these toos and abilities ...but no clue as to what you can use them on because of shit like "o it's a phisical hit...but you can't block it even though block is for physical hits lolololol" and "well you can spell reflect spells... but not that one form the boss...but the other one you can no problem". For shit like that blizz dropped the ball hard and I do a gree makes it hell for a new tank.
    Last edited by Odina; 2013-10-21 at 09:05 PM.

  5. #545
    I'm a Tank. Or, at least, I used to tank.. It used to be fun, being the one that kept control and set the pace, allowing the team to do their thing. Now it almost feels unnecessary, with DPS being able to tank anything short of a Raid Boss. Now instead of setting a comfortable pace, I feel rushed. People feel comfortable enough with their ability to do things only Tanks used to do that they will pull trash or bosses, then blame the tank for not picking it up. If mistakes are made, which happens to the best of us, more and more people are ready to jump all over a tank. I've had to endure tirades about things completely out of my control. Some nights I feel like I need a Valium just to tank an entire raid.

    When you see things like this, does it makes You want to Tank?

    Honestly, these days I'm grateful toward anyone that chooses to tank.. or heal, for that matter.

    If we want more people to take up these roles, it would help to show a little support in their direction. Let them know they are appreciated.

    This is where my fancy character signature would be, if I had one.

  6. #546
    The Insane Kujako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    but they kinda are.
    Not true. One has more dark meat.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

  7. #547
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    Tanks don't do any more work than anyone else in the raid. And it could be argued that they can get by with less than others in the raid.
    Yet you fail to see the obvious reason why tanking is so hated in LFR :
    You fail as dps/healer, you may die, the raid don't care.
    You fail as tank, you certainly die, the raid certainly wipe. Raging on you.
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  8. #548
    Mechagnome
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    Would it be helpful to have a thumbs up or down button to associated a players performance in raid groups, not just for tanks but for all players. Let the raid vote on each other’s performance and make it a linkable stat. Want in a pug link you social ranking, might keep people from being asses?

  9. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by Odina View Post
    Actually they could do 2 things that would help in keeping / getting some tanks in.

    1) If you look at LFR que and you see satchel no matter how many people come or go so long as you kill teh last boss you get stchel. The current *if one person leaves you don't get satchel* model is NOT working... if all you are there for is satchel as soon as one person leaves is not working out so well!

    2) Make sure the satchel has something to do with class spec! I know I can't be alone that goes 'WTF" when I get a int flask! Not asking for more mounts or gold or anythign but just class spec apropriate bonuses or more valor woudl be nice. Kind of like "hey this group needs you and we knwo you need to cap valor...let's help eachother" > tnx for the help hers...a...hmm spirit poition...yeay you got spirit now!!
    Actually your belief that the satchel disappears is a fallacy. If you queue up when the satchel is being offered, as long as you never leave the queue and you complete the LFR, you WILL get a satchel. Period. Trust me, I run enough LFRs and dungeon to know this to be 100% true. I have taken the queue before even though the rewards offered did NOT show a satchel (once the queue popped) because when I actually entered the queue, a satchel WAS offered, and I definitely received my satchel. Small point, I know, but it's relevant if it's the only reason you are queueing as a tank...
    I can teach you how to play, but I can't fix stupid.

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    Yet you fail to see the obvious reason why tanking is so hated in LFR :
    You fail as dps/healer, you may die, the raid don't care.
    You fail as tank, you certainly die, the raid certainly wipe. Raging on you.
    Not sure what LFR you've been in where healers/DPS doing stupid shit don't get kicked quicker than immediate or verbally assaulted immediately. I imagine that's a good LFR compared to what I've seen.

    I'm an LFR where the tank is the only focus? I bet that's the best kind of LFR you can be in... But for the rest of us, it's just miserable watching bads yell at bads.

    Unfortunately for me, I was away for most of this xpac and was forced to do LFR for two weeks since I resubbed. Thankfully I don't have to go back again except for Secrets.

    LFR is bad because of the anonymity. I sincerely hope it's gone next expansion. Anyone who sees it as okay for anonymous 25m matchmaking to exist in a multi-million player base deserves the abuse they run into.

  11. #551
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kagonos View Post
    Actually your belief that the satchel disappears is a fallacy. If you queue up when the satchel is being offered, as long as you never leave the queue and you complete the LFR, you WILL get a satchel. Period.
    then all of us that submited tickets after not getting one only to get a GM responce of

    "
    Thank you for contacting the World of Warcraft Game Master Department regarding your recent issue with the Looking For Raid Satchel of Cosmic Mysteries.

    The Satchel is granted to players who solo queue for Looking For Raid in roles that are currently underpopulated. Queueing as a group automatically removes eligibility for the satchel.

    In order to qualify for the satchel, you must also complete the entirety of the raid. If your group must re-queue, you are essentially queueing as a group and thus may not be eligible to receive the Satchel.

    Since this is the intended design of the satchel system, Customer Support is unable to provide restorations of the Satchel.

    Thank you again for contacting the World of Warcraft Game Master Department. Enjoy the Siege of Orgrimmar!


    Blizzard Customer Support "


    Must be inventing the issue! Or when you loose some one and reque there was still a satchel being offered for tanks!

    Google it you will see enough complaints on teh official forums don't even need to look at fan sites for that problem!

  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by slowpoke is a gamer View Post
    =because, even with the updates to active tanking, it's still the most boring and often times the most hostile role to play.


    my opinion is fact, everyone!!

  13. #553
    Bloodsail Admiral Snorkles's Avatar
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    I once got the satchel queing as DPS but with loot spec set to Tank (bug I presume)...

    Unless by some miracle DPS were getting satchel for some reason (I have never see this happen).

  14. #554
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    Not sure what LFR you've been in where healers/DPS doing stupid shit don't get kicked quicker than immediate or verbally assaulted immediately. I imagine that's a good LFR compared to what I've seen.
    Not sure what kind of lfr YOU've been... SoO LFr for what I saw (doing it on at least 3 alt per week) is a wipe fest on every single boss (outside the first two). Usually after 4-6 determination stack boss die with 5 to 20 baddies dead and raid continue to the next boss, without a single remark on the people dying on the first retardproof AoE.

    The only kick you may see is : people afking while dead, tank beyond trash level (the only time I saw a tank kick was on Galakras a DK who was totally unable to maintain threat on more than one mob).

    Even right now as I'm writing, I wiped on Malkorok because of every single melee were behind the boss in the cleave phase (caster killed, then tank killed, then wipe). Not a single of the melee were kicked. One tank leaved and we are wainting for a new one for the next wipe (because clearly 1 determination is not enough with abysmal DPS, having 3 ret under 70k for exemple)

    If all amazingly bad players were directly kicked as you may think, LFR wouldn't be a problem as it is now. Wipe once, kick the bad, clean the rest would be the common LFR. It's sadly absolutly not the reality (at least here in EU LFR, may be different in US ?)
    Last edited by Ealyssa; 2013-10-21 at 10:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    Not sure what kind of lfr YOU've been... SoO LFr for what I saw (doing it on at least 3 alt per week) is a wipe fest on every single boss (outside the first two). Usually after 4-6 determination stack boss die with 5 to 20 baddies dead and raid continue to the next boss, without a single remark on the people dying on the first retardproof AoE.

    The only kick you may see is : people afking while dead, tank beyond trash level (the only time I saw a tank kick was on Galakras a DK who was totally unable to maintain threat on more than one mob).

    Even right now as I'm writing, I wiped on Malkorok because of every single melee were behind the boss in the cleave phase (caster killed, then tank killed, then wipe). Not a single of the melee were kicked. One tank leaved and we are wainting for a new one for the next wipe (because clearly 1 determination is not enough with abysmal DPS, having 3 ret under 70k for exemple)

    If all amazingly bad players were directly kicked as you may think, LFR wouldn't be a problem as it is now. Wipe once, kick the bad, clean the rest would be the common LFR. It's sadly absolutly not the reality (at least here in EU LFR, may be different in US ?)
    Damn bro... That sucks lol. Don't think I've had more that 3 determination stacks in any SoO LFR I've run. I'll concede this lol. That seriously sucks.

  16. #556
    Grunt schwarzenego's Avatar
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    I think WoW has a design problem for all these years that, incredibly, someone solved, and it was Rift. In rift you have 8 skill trees for each of the 4 classes, from which you choose 3 to be your real talents.

    However, almost every class is capable of tanking, healing and DPSing, depending on their talents, AND they use the same gear to do all those functions. So, if you are a healer paladin, for example, your Int is your mana pool, chance to crit with spells, etc etc etc. If you then switch up to dps paladin, your int (through talents), becomes the equivalent to your strength, empowering your strikes. If you change to Tank paladin, your int becomes atk power and your wis more stamina (or something like that). This way, you only need one gear to perform all the tasks your class should be able to perform. This way certainly more people would tolarate to tank, knowing that whatever gear they get while tanking is also usable to dps later on, if they so choose to.

    The question is, everyone likes to deal some damage from time to time, and requiring completely opposite gears for each of the tasks a class can perform sux, makes you wish to stay in your main role forever, and if you like to deal damage, you certainly are not going to farm 300 tank items just to tank so you can make more dungeons and therefore get more dps items faster... if they made items useful for all specs, I believe this problem would be solved... I would love to tank as Shaman, but I dont think its needed, and even if I could, If I needed to regear completely to do it, I would still be dps...

  17. #557
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzenego View Post
    I think WoW has a design problem for all these years that, incredibly, someone solved, and it was Rift. In rift you have 8 skill trees for each of the 4 classes, from which you choose 3 to be your real talents.

    However, almost every class is capable of tanking, healing and DPSing, depending on their talents, AND they use the same gear to do all those functions. So, if you are a healer paladin, for example, your Int is your mana pool, chance to crit with spells, etc etc etc. If you then switch up to dps paladin, your int (through talents), becomes the equivalent to your strength, empowering your strikes. If you change to Tank paladin, your int becomes atk power and your wis more stamina (or something like that). This way, you only need one gear to perform all the tasks your class should be able to perform. This way certainly more people would tolarate to tank, knowing that whatever gear they get while tanking is also usable to dps later on, if they so choose to.

    The question is, everyone likes to deal some damage from time to time, and requiring completely opposite gears for each of the tasks a class can perform sux, makes you wish to stay in your main role forever, and if you like to deal damage, you certainly are not going to farm 300 tank items just to tank so you can make more dungeons and therefore get more dps items faster... if they made items useful for all specs, I believe this problem would be solved... I would love to tank as Shaman, but I dont think its needed, and even if I could, If I needed to regear completely to do it, I would still be dps...
    I'm worry, I'm sure it's great for you, but in my opinion, Rift is/was just awful. Everything about it.

  18. #558
    Deleted
    should be Blizzard's priority #1 problem to solve.
    1. Stop doing raidfinder, problem solved.
    2. Sign up for all the raidfinders you need and you will wait 30 minutes for the first one and rest will pop instantly.
    3. Get friends who wants to come on their tanks, instant queue.
    4. Hope Blizzard removes raidfinder from the game and actually force players to be good to see content. Just like I never got to see the last level in Super Mario 3 as a kid because I was bad at it.

  19. #559
    Here is why people do not tank LFR much anymore. Me and a few friends stopped tanking when every single wipe we would get blamed. I used to tank for a top 50 guild, so I know it wasn't the lack of skill. Tanks do not have to put up with it. We take the deserter and get into the next one. If people weren't such douche bags and took responsibility for their own stupidity, there would be more tanks. LFR as a tank is NO FUN, so why do it?

  20. #560
    tanked once in a lfr. other tank just kept taunt spamming and didnt listen so i just didnt bother tanking lfr again

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