Blizz needs to either: lower Timeless Isle gear Ilvl, or increase LFR Soo ivlvl req

[Roveredo]

I would be happy if said problem was restricted to damage dealers. My group last night (SoO 2nd Wing) wiped 4 times on Galakras and 3 on Juggernaut. Clueless tanks on Galakras (changed tanks 6 times on Galakras alone) and shitty healers on Juggernaut.

I also queued for Halls of Flesh-Shaping and, to my surprise, people still failed on Durumu. Tanks, healers and dps, all of them. 3 wipes and i could count only 4 players (including myself) after the beam phase.

[RickJamesLich]

From what I've seen, the decent players from LFR left for the greener pastures of flex, and LFR is now sorta like a jungle lol. Your best bet is going straight to flex and never looking back.

[onemanaleft]

its very easy to be full 535

its a bit rediculous that any average joe can be 550 ilvl right now (upgrades + cloak)

[Tziva]

its a bit rediculous that any average joe can be 550 ilvl right now (upgrades + cloak)

This is hyperbole. Neither of my raiding toons are even that high yet, and they both have cloak + full upgrades on raid gear and one of them even has a couple warforged items. The people who are 550+ are going to be either HM raiders or decently progressed normal mode raiders who have been lucky with getting lots of drops in Siege - but in either case, it's going to be raiders.

Your "average joe" farming Timeless Isle is probably going to have no where near that.

[Deja Thoris]

its a bit rediculous that any average joe can be 550 ilvl right now (upgrades + cloak)

I'm 549 now and raiding heroics. The assertion that everyone is 550+ is just rubbish.

[Dreyen]

Then kindly explain why it has never been THIS bad up until the Clueless Isle came along.

People are as bad as always, the new lfr fights are just simply much tougher, they require more organization.

[Angrybathtub]

Well get used to it. It seems like a Timeless Isle equivalent will be in every single expansion from now on.

[Deleted]

It's not so much because of timeless isle, it's because many of the actual raiders stopped doing lfr the moment flex came. No more carrying brainless dumbasses.

[Maggibesti]

People are as bad as always, the new lfr fights are just simply much tougher, they require more organization.

This is actually true, it´s not hard to get 502ilvl items from ToT anyways... Timeless Isle has nothing to do with this.

I finished one ToT with my alt and I was nearly full 502ilvl. Combine that with like 1 BoE and valor point gear and you'll get into SoO LFR.

The problem isn't the easy access to gear, it's just people are dumb, they have been since Vanilla, heck they have been since first ever game was released. And lets be honest, LFR is kinda hard for brainless WoW players, and ye around 80% of WoW players are brainless.

When you look at Dragon Saul LFR, or even MSV, it´s kinda easy. But then, look at SoO LFR, it's a lot harder. Of course you wont see many people knowing what to do and fail constantly.

Only Blizzard is to blame here. LFR is supposed to be a raid version of random dungeon.

[fassade]

My friends has a rogue and does 50k dps in lfr with 499 ilvl - OMG HES SUX right ?

He has 2 ilvl 429 daggers - which is the problems you can get into lfr without having decent weapons (as a mele atleast)

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=31207
I think he doesn't know this quest.
http://www.wowhead.com/item=94587
And this blacksmith weapon, either

[ItachiZaku]

Will you be mad when my blood DK hits 90 and instantly has > 496 ilevel and I queue for SoO in blood spec to DPS with nothing but isle gear and a reborn 2H sword I bought off AH for 4K gold or nah?

- - - Updated - - -

Your "average joe" farming Timeless Isle is probably going to have no where near that.

We are at 520-525.

[elmoe420]

Are the struggles with SoO LFR really due to low DPS or people properly executing the fight even with the stripped down mechanics? I feel like whenever a new LFR comes out things are rough for a month or so and then once the people doing LFR actually have learned the fights it starts to go much more smoothly. Remember that a lot of these guys are not watching videos or even reading the dungeon journal, they just trial and error in LFR until they eventually learn the fights.

I ran LFR over the weekend on my ilevel 561 disc priest for valor and to help gear friends. It was pretty rough, took me about an average of 2 hours per wing of LFR. Most of the people in raid with the exception of less than a hand full were between 25-70k DPS. However, when I look at the reasons for the wipes it really didn't come down to 'DPS is low, we hit the berserk timer'. The fights seem intentionally tuned for really low raid DPS. Our wipes came from people not doing the right thing. Keep in mind I was giving a big buffer to peoples health with absorbs so we didn't suffer as much from random dying in fire hurting raid DPS.

For example, on Galakras an add would get through and start beating on an NPC and the raid wouldn't focus it down and would just keep attacking the other adds so the NPC would die and we would reset. A simple solution was just to have the tank mark the add with a skull and spam people to attack it if it was beating on the NPC. Similarly, we assigned a single healer to just spam heal the NPC if it was getting low.

Another example, on Nazghrim we actually did hit the berserk timer because people were DPSing during defensive stance and we didn't save bloodlust for berserker stance. Spamming a message to stop and start DPS around defensive stance and getting the shaman to lust at the right time and we easily defeated it within the berserk time.

Again, on spoils it just took a few wipes to figure out what our DPS was looking like and then we could evenly split the DPS between the two groups. It also took instructing the tanks to open the big boxes first one at a time so we can burn down the mini-bosses without dealing with extra adds.

My point here is that at no time did I feel like a fight was not beatable due to low raid DPS. We had the same terrible DPS the entire time and the difference between a wipe and a kill was the raid doing what they were supposed to. To me, LFR doesn't need more gating around gear/DPS. What we need is better incentives and requirements around being the leader of the group. Explaining the fights and taking an active roll in herding these cats during the encounters is what leads to success from my experience.

Just my 2 cents.

[drake741]

I never did LFR in Cata, but was the DPS discrepancy this big?

Also, is this the advent of DPS finally blaming each other for failing groups instead of "shit heals" or "wtf tank"?

[Uvwaex]

2nd week of wing 2 LFR, I was in a group that one shot every boss. Granted, about 3/4ths of the raid was from Illidan, but again, anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. These days though I usually only run LFR for the bosses that drop tier or trinkets /shrug

[Bareback]

For those of you wanting LFR to be easier, how much easier are you wanting it to be? I have a few casual friends and more than once have I heard this EXACT sentence come out of more than one of their mouths. "They should just let you hit the boss once and get loot, or just let us hit a dice when we queue and get loot without actually having to come in here.".

I'm not kidding.

The people LFR is catered to don't even want to do the minimal amount of effort to complete something that was MADE for them. I do the last two parts of ToT and the first two parts of SoO at the beginning of the week around late afternoon/evening(working on third and fourth legendary cloaks, why?, because it's easy to get and I want one of each type.) and hope that the better players show up. It's easier to run LFR in the beginning of the week, because most people are under the mindset that better players show up at the beginning of the week, even the good players. Otherwise I steer very clear of all other wings of LFR, because people are right, the majority of the players that end up in LFR should probably pack their computer up and give it to a two year old.

[Nobleshield]

Honestly what they need to do is just quit having half a dozen or more mechanics in raids nowadays. LFR has to be a dumbed down version of the actual raid, so if the actual boss has 5-6 abilities then the LFR boss tends to have at least 4 if they don't have all of them that just hit for less, but that doesn't solve the problem of the type of people who queue for LFR usually can't handle that many things going on. This is why Dark Shaman is such a terrible fight IMO, doubly so in LFR. There's what, 6 things going on at once (tank debuffs, slime geyser, slime adds, elemental wall, meteor, purple swirlies?) and it's no wonder LFR people can't deal with that.

It's going to be harsh but they need to just cap boss abilities at like 2-3 abilities per boss, and be done with it. Maybe you can add an extra one for heroic mode. Instead, they said they LIKE the idea of personal responsibility and with determination stacks (and other things in general) they can tune the bosses to be super complex because either you can drop to an easier mode or every time you wipe you get a damage/health buff. That's just piss poor encounter design IMO. I daresay the majority would be happy with fewer mechanics overall, in LFR and elsewhere and those who like lots of mechanics, well sorry but you're the minority here.

[Deleted]

LFR crowd wanted a difficulty that was just for people who wanted to run LFR. LFR crowd have that difficulty. The crowd of raiders, casual raiders, or people who ahve invested even an iota of time in to the game and being social can run Flex now and not have to put up with the worst experience in WoW. Everyone wins. Raiders get to stay out of LFR, and LFR can be for the people who LFR is catered for. I know many a time I've been flamed for attempting to tell tactics and dare to vote to kick AFK'ers or people 20th on DPS.

But, any attempt to constrctively deal with the problems has led to people being branded as 'raiders' 'elitist scum' 'this is a difficulty for us'. Now with no legendary quest in LFR, no real incentive to run it due to the low item level, it truly is.

Pretty much this. I feel bad for the few decent players still running LFR but the only thing I can say, is stop doing LFR and find a Flex group. It ain't that hard to find one that meets your requirements and it's a lot less stressful.

That being said, I'm sure SoO LFR will improve within a few weeks, when the masses have gotten several upgrades and sorta know what to do.

[TheWindWalker]

Then kindly explain why it has never been THIS bad up until the Clueless Isle came along.

I remember taking like three to six attempts to beat Garalon every, single, week.

[Krommm]

Give people a full set of 566 and the majority would still be teribad. Some sort of AFK check would be more beneficial, or at least a DPS floor requirement (40-50k entering SoO LFR is very generous, I've seen much lower...)

[volescue]

Then kindly explain why it has never been THIS bad up until the Clueless Isle came along.

Because a good portion of the "better" players went to Flex. Its not like all of a sudden there are tons of people doing LFR that weren't before. If anything, it is the opposite.