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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemanaleft View Post
    its very easy to be full 535

    its a bit rediculous that any average joe can be 550 ilvl right now (upgrades + cloak)
    Are you kidding?

    You can't get hold of a full set of 535 gear in a reasonable amount of time, and when you do, it will probably have silly itemization.

    Someone has to have been working on the cloak for at least 10 weeks full tilt (with luck), or for several months off and on.

    What's easy is to get a couple of 535 pieces. Or if you are like my priest, get 4 or 5 burdens the first day before they nerfed the slot machine monkey.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Trafalgarlaw View Post
    Then kindly explain why it has never been THIS bad up until the Clueless Isle came along.
    Heh. Aheh. AHAHAHAAHAHA. It has always been this bad - one time in Elegon LFR my group lost some people to the floor. BOTH. TANKS.

  3. #123
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    Then kindly explain why it has never been THIS bad up until the Clueless Isle came along.
    It HAS been this bad before. However, there have never been two bosses as difficult (by LFR standards) back to back as Shamans and Nazgrim, preceded by another slow fight (Galakras).

    No one in his right mind in LFR is going to be flasked or fully optimized, especially if he's playing four or eight different alts. It's perfectly easy to explain people doing 50-60k in 496 gear on new encounters involving a lot of movement in so-so gear with no idea where the tank is going to go, et cetera. That's the DPS you do in that gear under those circumstances if you are actually trying a little.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Trafalgarlaw View Post
    Then kindly explain why it has never been THIS bad up until the Clueless Isle came along.

    Say what?

    Clearly you don't remember the fun times to be had on Horridon in 5.2 - 5.3.

    Or Durumu before he was treated like a paladin (TO THE GROUND).

    Or even Lei Shen.

    The average LFRite is just BAD...plain and simple. All the gear in the world won't help them. Note that I said average, not all. I'm not hating on LFR, just the mentality it's provoked in SOME people that think they deserve to do something just because they pay the same $15 as everyone else.
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  5. #125
    I just resubbed after 5 months, jumped into LFR with 503 ilvl, not knowing the bosses and still ended up in top 1-2 healing on each boss. It's not about timeless/lfr/flex or any other gear. Gear is not the issue.

    P.S. Not trying to brag or anything, I just shared a fact that contributes.

  6. #126
    The Patient Lunareste's Avatar
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    As others have said, the "problem" (lol) with LFR is that the people who used to carry LFRs are no longer queing for them due to Flex.

    It will sort itself out eventually, however. Either everyone who AFKs/severely underperforms on bosses will begin to participate because they get nothing if their group doesn't kill the boss, or most people who try putting in an effort when they play will stop queing for LFR and will que for Flex instead. And then the AFKers will truly get nothing because then they will only que with other players who do nothing.

    Either way, Flex is a great addition to the game and the LFR community will be forced to police itself if they want to get their content done.

  7. #127
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    The reason why LFR is so awful right now is because the 4-5 people who carried in each ToT run are no longer queuing. Heroic raiders this tier have absolutely (or little) reason to queue and others have just started doing flex because of how awful an experience LFR can be.

    I'm 11/14HC and while I have done LFR every tier for maybe a month or two in 5.0 and 5.2, I haven't stepped foot into it once in 5.4. Prior to this patch they baited players like myself in with gear and the possibility of grabbing legendary quest pieces so that you could complete a step before your main raid. The iLvL difference is staggering now, the trinkets are balanced such that ToT HC are still just as good and there is no 'bait' for players like myself to enter.

    Mind you I'm not saying heroic and normal mode raiders are saving grace of LFR, but generally they know a bit more about playing the game then these people who solely do LFR like the OP is saying. But if you remove a group of people that by comparison pump out 3x to 4x more damage/HPS and generally know how each boss works virtue of heroic/normal/flex, well then you make it far more difficult.

    The issue isn't the Isle or any gear you hand 'bads'. Bad players are still going to be bad and there aren't enough good players in the system to balance that out. Hence LFR is a mess.

  8. #128
    LFR is always bad when new wings come out.

    Deathwing, Will, Garalon, Tsulong, Ji-Kun, Durumu, Lei Shen, etc.

    People learn the fights and get better at them(plus some nerfs from Blizz) and then people switch from complaining about how LFR is too hard to complaints about LFR being too faceroll.

    Look at all the threads about how Norushen was a LFR killer. I've 1-shot it on 3 characters this week. Dark Shaman are OMG hard, but already my LFR groups are killing them with only a couple of wipes.

    Spoils is probably the hardest boss in LFR 3 and in a few weeks when people get better at it, same thing will happen. And then people will be complaining about how hard part 4 is...until players figure out those fights.

    To be honest, I think SoO LFR is easier than previous tiers because I've felt most of the problems come from not understanding mechanics. I've run into fewer situations of the raid not having the healing/dps for the fight than in previous LFRs.

  9. #129
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    I do not want Timeless Isle gear ilvl to be reduced or the ilvl requirement to queue for SoO to be raised even higher. I had already level 2 characters' ilvls up to SoO level before 5.4 and I want to do it as character I don't play as much but, know how to play as.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Trafalgarlaw View Post
    Then kindly explain why it has never been THIS bad up until the Clueless Isle came along.
    Its pretty simple flex is why lfr is bad, anyone half decent just does flex and ignores lfr. So all thats left is the bads and the 1-2 decent people that can't carry a whole raid. It has nothing to do with isle gear.

  11. #131
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    To be honest, the problem is player mentality, not too low gear requirement. Give those slackers full set of heroic warforged gear, item level 574. I still fail to see big improvement in their DPS, maybe a little bit because their abilities will hit much harder than with crappy gear. But if they decide to afk the fight, even 999 ilvl gear won't do any good. If someone pulls 40k dps in 496 gear, no offense he either slacks HUGE time or is just plain horrible. Typical normal-mode raider pulled 65-70k dps on Feng the Accursed, in 460-465 ilvl gear (dungeon blues, i had DMF trinket too). By the time they got 496 ilvl after weeks of farming normal HOF and TOES (maybe some easier heroic MSV bosses too) they were doing 90-110k dps, not 40k. I've seen players pulling this bad DPS with gear far superior than 496. Most had timeless 535 pieces mixed with ToT normal (VP) and lfr gear.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    The reason why LFR is so awful right now is because the 4-5 people who carried in each ToT run are no longer queuing. Heroic raiders this tier have absolutely (or little) reason to queue and others have just started doing flex because of how awful an experience LFR can be.
    These "carriers" are a myth. I very rarely saw anyone in full normal gear at any point in ToT LFR let alone someone with a piece or two of heroic gear.

    There would typically be 1-2 DPS with some normal and valor gear doing much higher DPS than the rest of the group, and as far as "carrying" goes, that was it.

    LFR hasn't "lost" the people who were "carrying" it. It never had them. The only difference is that the 2nd wing of LFR is tuned funny, excessive boss health drags out the encounters pointlessly, and there is too damn much trash.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Trafalgarlaw View Post
    Then kindly explain why it has never been THIS bad up until the Clueless Isle came along.
    The timeless isle has nothing to do with it. Now the better players can do Flex instead of LFR so they don't carry the LFR groups anymore. What you are seeing is just the higher concentration of regular LFR players.
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  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    These "carriers" are a myth. I very rarely saw anyone in full normal gear at any point in ToT LFR let alone someone with a piece or two of heroic gear.

    There would typically be 1-2 DPS with some normal and valor gear doing much higher DPS than the rest of the group, and as far as "carrying" goes, that was it.

    LFR hasn't "lost" the people who were "carrying" it. It never had them. The only difference is that the 2nd wing of LFR is tuned funny, excessive boss health drags out the encounters pointlessly, and there is too damn much trash.
    I've seen em often enough (myself being one of em, since i needed the damn ring off primo till 2nd to last week of ToT)

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    These "carriers" are a myth. I very rarely saw anyone in full normal gear at any point in ToT LFR let alone someone with a piece or two of heroic gear.

    There would typically be 1-2 DPS with some normal and valor gear doing much higher DPS than the rest of the group, and as far as "carrying" goes, that was it.

    LFR hasn't "lost" the people who were "carrying" it. It never had them. The only difference is that the 2nd wing of LFR is tuned funny, excessive boss health drags out the encounters pointlessly, and there is too damn much trash.
    I saw loads of them, I was even one of them (EU). There was usually one healer healing as much as 2½ of the other healers and 3-4 dps doing twice the normal amount, which helps a lot. Raiding culture is richer on the EU servers though (yes, it has been proven) and the average age on players is a few years higher (students here can afford WoW and don't have to work night shifts and stuff like that) than in the US, so I assume you're playing on American servers.

    I'm not a carrier now though, since it's much easier to actually pug normals for legendary quests on new alts.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskymon View Post
    To ease LFR Blizz should, if anything, add even more higher i-lvl gear in to game. This would directly help the struggling donalds.

    While were at it, this gear should also be nonsocketed to avoid difficulties. More stats could be added to gear directly and make it so when the set is complete, it needs no reforging/gemming/enchanting since it can be a handful, especially with tools where you load up a char and press "Calculate".

    UI should be streamlined. One half-screen sized button to do stuff and one button if the game somehow manages to kill you, so you can buff yourself with "Tears Of Noob". Tears of Noob buffs your damage by 500% and makes you immune to any damage. When you get 10 stacks of it you get Aw3zoem dargonslayya title you can proudly wear.

    awesome...

  17. #137
    Stood in the Fire Yuna's Avatar
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    Most "LFR carries" of 530+ players do flex instead of lfr today, counting myself with 560+ mains and 545+ alts when i was constantly running ToT lfr 2-3 times a week, no longer doing carries for "fresh ppl" because there are better options now. Lfr player pool went shit, only crappy alts or "lets afk 30 minutes" with no dedication, skill or know-how.

    Dunno about you Normie, but i usually run LFR and Flex with ppl i know and we always end up on top dps/hps, mainly because we care and we want to finish that damn 3-4 bosses within 20-30 minutes and do not "auto-afk one attack lets die i get gear anyway".

    just my 20 cent

  18. #138
    I don't get how lowering ilvl on timeless isle or increasing ilvl for it is gonna help anyone? You really want the people that will just afk ToT and get enough drops to afk SoO also? If they arent doing enough dps then just boot them after the wipe. They have to que again which will give them at least 30 minutes or more with nothing to do? Not to mention they wont have a guarantee they will end up on the boss they need to finish the wing.

  19. #139
    Dark Shaman = move out of bad, kill adds when they spawn
    Nazgrim = move out of bad, kill adds, don't dps boss when he's in defensive stance

    Compare those 2 fights to Tsulong, Durumu, or Lei Shen. Those are 2 SoO fights with simple mechanics that are going to be complete pushovers in a few weeks. Meanwhile, some of the harder fights from earlier LFRs never really made it to the "1-shot pushover" stage because of complex mechanics.

  20. #140
    raid with your guild?

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