Blizz needs to either: lower Timeless Isle gear Ilvl, or increase LFR Soo ivlvl req

[Normie]

Dunno about you Normie, but i usually run LFR and Flex with ppl i know and we always end up on top dps/hps, mainly because we care and we want to finish that damn 3-4 bosses within 20-30 minutes and do not "auto-afk one attack lets die i get gear anyway".

You are a rarity. In general, there have always been very few normal raid geared characters in LFR.

If you are normal raid geared and go into LFR then of course there will be one more normal raid geared person than usual in the group. If you go with a group of normal raid geared people then there will be a group of normal raid geared people "carrying" the rest of the group.

But if you are someone who solo queues in the US like me, there has as a rule never been more than one or two normal-geared "overperformers" in a typical LFR during MoP.

[Erolian]

Sometimes I will do LFR and I don't know how most of the groups would've done it without me unless they pushed 10 stacks on every boss. Not to be full of myself but take dark shamans for example where I do ~400k dps and the second dps is at 150k max and hes 80k above third etc I just don't even understand

[luc54]

You don't need that much dps on those bosses anymore. Before nerfs enrage might have been a bit hard on nazgrim, but other than that I don't think dps was that big problem. Bigger problem were tanking and healing, which are more critical in survival at LFR bosses. Of course it doesn't help lot of dps are too dumb to move from stuff on ground.

The dps deffinetely suck when they do some low 50k-80k dps, but getting 100k or more isn't as simple as one would think. While average item level gives average level of gear, it isn't weighted. Lot of times are much much bigger upgrade(like weapons trinkets) than other less critcal pieces. Good luck trying to do any dps with really shit weapon as melee. It's not going to happen even with perfect playing. Also non optimal stats from timeless gear hinder dps a bit. These hinder even the players that play well. Then you have the average LFR raider that does not have a clue how to play and does not bother to reforge, gem or anything. He won't reach that dps necessairly with very good gear either.

I haven't had much problem since the first week on 2nd LFR wing, but maybe I'm just lucky. It also matters quite a bit the time when you queue for LFR. Don expect to get really great players at normal raiding times in LFR.

[Normie]

You don't need that much dps on those bosses anymore. Before nerfs enrage might have been a bit hard on nazgrim, but other than that I don't think dps was that big problem. Bigger problem were tanking and healing, which are more critical in survival at LFR bosses. Of course it doesn't help lot of dps are too dumb to move from stuff on ground.

The dps deffinetely suck when they do some low 50k-80k dps, but getting 100k or more isn't as simple as one would think. While average item level gives average level of gear, it isn't weighted. Lot of times are much much bigger upgrade(like weapons trinkets) than other less critcal pieces. Good luck trying to do any dps with really shit weapon as melee. It's not going to happen even with perfect playing. Also non optimal stats from timeless gear hinder dps a bit. These hinder even the players that play well. Then you have the average LFR raider that does not have a clue how to play and does not bother to reforge, gem or anything. He won't reach that dps necessairly with very good gear either.

I haven't had much problem since the first week on 2nd LFR wing, but maybe I'm just lucky. It also matters quite a bit the time when you queue for LFR. Don expect to get really great players at normal raiding times in LFR.

By and large I think you're 100% right.

The DPS requirements, except for Nazgrim, are modest ... 70k average is probably way more than enough for any encounter except Nazgrim. Getting 70k on Dark Shaman though can be nigh impossible if melee aren't able to make sense of what the tanks are doing.

Coming into the raid with at best a 510 weapon, and more likely at best a 476 weapon? Now, that sucks, and it costs casters a bunch too.

[RoKPaNda]

because decent people moved on to flex, outside selling q's, set pieces and trinkets; most raiders don't bother with lfr anymore.

This is getting really old. "Most raiders" never touched LFR to start with because there was no reason to after the first tier this expansion. If a guild was forcing it's members to do so, it was an abusive guild. The reason that LFR right now is less successful than it was last tier is because this tier is new, and every single time a new tier is released we go through this for several weeks before everything is a 1-shot. It happened (to a lesser extent) with Dragon Soul, it happened with HoF, it definitely happened with ToT (Horridon was a wipefest for the first week, Wing 2 wasn't so bad, Wing 3 was a huge wipefest for awhile. Wing 4 I can't say because I didn't even bother. Now SoO is pretty much the same thing.

Wing 1 has gotten to the point where if it's not all 1-shots it's damn close. Wing 2 is my least favorite, but it's getting better. The last couple times I was there the group only had 1-2 wipes. Wing 3 is currently very easy. And for all this talk of people leaving LFR for Flex, I see heaps of people in every run in LFR that have several Flex pieces, and I see some people with normal mode pieces. Why are they doing LFR? I have no clue, but they still do it.

[Deleted]

This is getting really old. "Most raiders" never touched LFR to start with because there was no reason to after the first tier this expansion. If a guild was forcing it's members to do so, it was an abusive guild. The reason that LFR right now is less successful than it was last tier is because this tier is new, and every single time a new tier is released we go through this for several weeks before everything is a 1-shot. It happened (to a lesser extent) with Dragon Soul, it happened with HoF, it definitely happened with ToT (Horridon was a wipefest for the first week, Wing 2 wasn't so bad, Wing 3 was a huge wipefest for awhile. Wing 4 I can't say because I didn't even bother. Now SoO is pretty much the same thing.

Wing 1 has gotten to the point where if it's not all 1-shots it's damn close. Wing 2 is my least favorite, but it's getting better. The last couple times I was there the group only had 1-2 wipes. Wing 3 is currently very easy. And for all this talk of people leaving LFR for Flex, I see heaps of people in every run in LFR that have several Flex pieces, and I see some people with normal mode pieces. Why are they doing LFR? I have no clue, but they still do it.

I already replied to one of your posts, where you say that "most raiders" didn't bother with LFR before either. If you read the posts, you'll see that it's you who are wrong. Cause before, people went LFR for missing Tier or trinkets and no, it's not being abusive, if you're a Heroic raiding guild. So stop using that term, just because you don't understand or agree with how Heroic raiding guilds work.

Also, people did LFR for the Legendary quest. Now all the raiders that were on the quest from day one have their cloak and only alts need it.

[Normie]

Sometimes I will do LFR and I don't know how most of the groups would've done it without me unless they pushed 10 stacks on every boss. Not to be full of myself but take dark shamans for example where I do ~400k dps and the second dps is at 150k max and hes 80k above third etc I just don't even understand

Hmm, you only did Dark Shamans LFR once ... I guess that's enough to generalize though?

565 fire mage with the cloak, a mere 60 ilevels above the requirements for the instance, I'm sure everyone in LFR wants to send you candy for stopping by to help them out.

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I already replied to one of your posts, where you say that "most raiders" didn't bother with LFR before either. If you read the posts, you'll see that it's you who are wrong. Cause before, people went LFR for missing Tier or trinkets and no, it's not being abusive, if you're a Heroic raiding guild. So stop using that term, just because you don't understand or agree with how Heroic raiding guilds work.

Coining one boss and then dropping group, once per week, for one or two or three weeks, is not the same as doing LFR every week.

Anyway, except for the tiny number of specs that get broken each tier by OP trinkets, it's not so much abusive as just dumb to go into LFR if you have normal mode gear.

[Deleted]

Hmm, you only did Dark Shamans LFR once ... I guess that's enough to generalize though?

565 fire mage with the cloak, a mere 60 ilevels above the requirements for the instance, I'm sure everyone in LFR wants to send you candy for stopping by to help them out.

- - - Updated - - -


Coining one boss and then dropping group, once per week, for one or two or three weeks, is not the same as doing LFR every week.

Anyway, except for the tiny number of specs that get broken each tier by OP trinkets, it's not so much abusive as just dumb to go into LFR if you have normal mode gear.

True, that coining one or 2 bosses just to drop group is not the same as actually doing LFR every week. But raiders who were benched on say Horridon, would still have to do Jin'rokh, unless they wanted a deserter debuff. Then there were alts. Alts that you couldn't do Normal ToT on yet, cause their gear sucked too much. Those alts you'd do LFR on, to catch up on gear. Those same alts are now running Flex in stead. I'm not saying that it's only due to Flex but it does have a rather big impact.

You clearly don't understand how much Tier bonus or a specific trinket can boost your dps. Even Heroic raiders did LFR for some of those items. You may think it's stupid but even now, a Hunter and a Warrior tank from my guild went LFR to get a specific trinket. They had obviously already done both Normal/Heroic and Flex but the trinkets didn't drop for them. So while it may seem abusive, dumb or w/e to you and others who don't raid at that level, it makes perfectly sense to us.

It's not about the ilvl alone. It's the effect of the trinket. The trinket the Warrior tank was after, is the one that reduces AoE effects. He specifically wanted it for Heroic Malkorok.

[Issalice]

I actually agree with you, and typically I don't agree with these type of threads. I spent all day yesterday (I'm home sick, sniff sniff) running all of the LFR's on my priest as disc, instead of my usual shadow. It was incredibly painful once I hit SoO. 6 stacks of determination to down Nazgirm.....SIX! The most I have ever seen was 3, I honestly didn't think you could get more than 3, why would need more? To be honest the group was just full of clueless players, I don't know if item level would had made much of a difference. When you have 4 players yelling 'Defensive : STOP ATTACKING' and at least 5 people keep attacking, you're going to have a bad time.

I myself made a major blunder last night and was kicked from my first group ever (it mad me sadder than I expected). My heals were really low, (40k at my best...yeah that low), not the lowest on the chart, but should have been better and I know it. I have never healed before and had no business going into SoO without more practice in the earlier raids. I did fine on Gal, Iron Jugg, and Nazgrim. But the shaman was hard for me to heal through, couldn't break 50k on the Shammy fight. (I queued twice, first time ended up at Nazgrim, second was a fresh run.)

I'm not geared with timeless pieces mind you, but it was basically the same situation. I had the ilvl to get in but lacked the experience. I should have practiced healing a few more times on the older raids before stepping foot in Org. Same with the timeless folks. You have the ilvl to get in....but do you really have the experience?

So if you were in a SoO last night with a Disc panda priest who was doing lowly hps...it was I, and I apologize Thanks for not being really mean about it though

[Radio]

As much as it is a noble goal to have people learn to do these fights and do appropriate DPS, I think the effort is just making LFR far more painful and toxic than it needs to be. And to top it off, a lot of people DON'T WANT TO LEARN.

Some changes that would make LFR life in Siege much better (from what I've seen):
Immerseus: Tank swap removed, Blobs move slower
Protectors: Lengthen time required to finish them off, have less Banes go out, give Garrote a duration, lower damage on Inferno Strike
Norushen: Pretty much fine now, maybe remove tank swap, stop currently active tank from being able to be ported into the realm automatically
Sha: Trivialise the swelling pride explosion side effects at 25, 50 and 75
Galakras: Remove the knockback
Iron Juggernaut: Let all classes easily pick up crawlers, lessen knockback on shock pulse
Dark Shaman: Remove tank swap, increase cooldown on all effects and spread them out more
Nazgrim: Epic nerf Ravagers
Malkorok: Slow down void zone explosions, tune down explosions and breath, lower blood rage
Spoils: No enrage timer, cap on maximum boxes openable, less stacks on set to blow


While these changes are heavy handed and would make the fights for the most part shit easy/braindead/whatever, it would vastly improve quality of life in LFR and I might actually start running my alts through it again without wanting to drive an ice pick up the heads of half the people I end up grouped with.

[Zevoa]

When i do LFRs i usually just watch a movie and tab in occasionally. When the movie is over its usually at 4-5 stacks of determination.

Not the only one I see.

[Normie]

Norushen: Pretty much fine now, maybe remove tank swap, stop currently active tank from being able to be ported into the realm automatically

Iron Juggernaut: Let all classes easily pick up crawlers, lessen knockback on shock pulse

Yeah, the auto-porting of the tank is a pain in the ass on Norushen. It's pretty much an insta-gib for whatever unlucky sap picks up one of the large adds before the remaining tank spots it. I've died to "wtf it meleed me" a couple of times now.

Having everyone be able to pick up crawlers without taking excessive damage would be great, frankly. It would give people something interesting to do.

[Deleted]

I just had a 9 months break and I don't believe that the skill level in LFR has gone down, it was bad before and still is. Timeless Isle, for me atleast, have meant that i could get up to speed and start doing Flex with my guild very fast and I'm happy about that

[esoterickk]

Flex.

No reason for the decent players to go into LFR when they have Flex available now, so LFR is left with poor quality players.

[Soulzar]

Combination of Catch up gear getting players into this tier LFR before they have exp playing the toon to any level, Flex keeping more better players out for less carry, and most predominately, the culture that is LFR where its the things to do.. to just auto attack the boss while tabbed out.

[Deleted]

Flex.

No reason for the decent players to go into LFR when they have Flex available now, so LFR is left with poor quality players.

This

I don't really understand why people who have done Flex, Normal, Heroic SoO go into LFR and then complain the standard of players in there is shit.

During ToThc progress we recruited a hunter that was in a random guild on our server and had only ever raided in LFR, no previous experience in other expansions etc. She's now our back-up DPS and happy to raid whenever we need her, her IRL is quite busy so she didn't want to commit to fixed times, which suits everyone well. I have to say, she's actually one of the best players I've ever raided with, in terms of knowing her class, understanding mechanics etc. She eases into heroic progression raids, and pulls really high numbers considering her gear is ~9-10 ilvls below the rest of the raid.

What I'm trying to say is that LFR in 5.2/5.3 had a few gems there. Flex most likely pulled them out, or those gems decided they wanted to try normal progress.

LFR is awful, people who say they "Don't need gear but go there for Valor Points" are crazy. By the time you've cleared LFR for your 90 valor or whatever it is, you could have completed 10 Heroic Scenarios to be valor capped in an hour xD

Only time I've ever been into LFR this tier was the 2nd part when a casual guildie wanted me to help him through some tacs there. We had 4 people staying at the top of the tower fighting and shouting at each other to let them into the cannon because they were the best at it.. /slits wrists

[velde046]

It's just sad when so many people does less dps in the final patch of MoP than I did in the final patch of Cata =/

Aw would someone be so kind to blow some smoke up his ass? Think he needs it....