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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Darmalus View Post
    On a slightly more serious note, you wouldn't have to un-undead-ify (re-liven?) many forsaken for this to work. Just enough to have a few ambasadors who can reach out to living survivors of Lorderon or independent groups, and have them form the bulk of the Human membership of the Horde.
    You know, there are survivors of Lordaeron still in Lordaeron right now.

    They remember what the undead did to them in the Third War.

    They really have no interest in your kind. In fact, they would \rather butcher you and your allies because of what your kind did to them.

    But I don't need to tell you this. You can find out yourself.

    They're still in the Monastery, after all.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Cradix View Post
    You know, there are survivors of Lordaeron still in Lordaeron right now.

    They remember what the undead did to them in the Third War.

    They really have no interest in your kind. In fact, they would \rather butcher you and your allies because of what your kind did to them.

    But I don't need to tell you this. You can find out yourself.

    They're still in the Monastery, after all.
    Assuming Voss left any survivors (this is WoW, no one is ever truely wiped out), I wouldn't want those demon-following buffoons anyway.

    I was thinking the Syndicate, ex-Cult of the Damned, or wherever Scholomance get's new students from. Someone dark and edgy to go with the general Forsaken theme.

  3. #283
    yeah, when making a group playable, they have to meet certain criteria or, made to meet certain criteria - creative development would write the proile up to make them an exciting group players want to play.

    It's not as important for a sub-race as it is for a major new race tho, because a sub-race is just giving a varaition. well most sub-races, however for living horde humans they need to have an attractive storyline, no one wants to play a traitor, or a brainwashed cultist - part of the attraction of using the forsaken to be the source of these new living humans was that they already had a profile player worthy so you didn't have to build one, just merely tell how some undead become living again.

    in that scenario, the surviving Lordaeron humans can have an interesting story development.. they can both show that the living forsaken are very much still very forsaken, another way of showing players that gaining life in their bodies again has not made them want to re-join the alliance which is what the alliance had hoped, but also it presents a turning point, it could be an opportunity they get faced with making a choice now. Join with the forsaken or be wiped out by them.

    they could actually be quite the tool to show the humanity and heroism that living forsaken have..showing players that whiles the living forsaken are still very much forsaken and loyal to the horde, there is something different about them that is admirable when they make an effort to bolster their numbers with the Lordaeron survivors. ofc you can write some groups accept some groups don't.. afterall, thanks to the bloodfang worgen, the forsaken have local enemies in their own area, they don't need to have their former citizens as an enemy.

    In the vampire angle, one of the main sources of new forsaken vampires could be the human survivors of Lordaeron, I know in my initial story , the San'layan Prince started with the elite and most beautiful humans in the Grizzly Hills settlements befoere he moved onto Tirisfal glades in a story that tells how he turns the living humans in Lordaeron into san'layan humans (vampire humans) and finds away for this effect to work on undead forsaken too, and he's plowing through the forsaken ranks converting before he is caught and ended by Sylvannas.

    In this storyline, the secret of how to make vampires out of undead forsaken is lost with him, but a curious effect is that the human san'layan whether their origin was living or undead, are at least able to make san'layan (vampires) out of living humans, but not out of undead or elves.

    there is a place for everything, if you have the imagination to use

  4. #284
    god, I'm looking forward to Blizzcon if only so these inane sub-race threads can be shot down and forgotten in short order.

    The High Elves one is bad enough, and the playable vampires one is equally terrible, but this takes the cake insofar as it contradicts a central aspect of Warcraft since Warcraft was first conceived, all for the purpose of solving an imaginary problem. The Horde does not need humans anymore than the Alliance needs Orcs. On most servers the Horde pop is quite healthy; on large number of pvp servers, including the one my mains were on, Horde outnumbered Alliance dramatically. There is no issue here, there is no balancing need such that Blizzard desperately needs to make the central Alliance race playable cross-faction.

  5. #285
    dude, relax, if reading threads on a video game forum drives you insane, tehn you must have a really short tether, and I would suggest you have more serious problems than fanboys talking up their fantasies.

    take a chill pill, gain some perspective or better a new hobby, this really shouldn't annoy you this much, certainly not to the point of rudeness.

    Look, whether sub-races are announced or not, think about it, these threads would stop or continue. IF they are announnced, what are these guys gonna do? write I told you sos? I won't be doing that. The announcement would certainly be a different format that would spawn tons of other race threads.

    Seeing as I started the sub-race thread conversation back during end of TBC early wrath days, and 3 expansions have come and they've only grown, it's obvious that they will continue to be threads about this whether it is announced or not, and whether I have anything to do with it or not. People want customisable options and skins, every place it's mentioned there is an almost 100% consensus and excitement, the debates are usually on the delivery method and which groups to use.

    Back to topic: the alliance does not need orcs, not from a gaming perspective, from a lore perspective, only the writers are qualified to answer. I know blizzard wants as little cross over as possible, I would have said no crossover, but Panderans showed that it has been a point of deebate for aw hile and finally a decision to change that, but they still like separate identities on the two factions. The humans I have been presenting to the horde have separate identities and visuals (models) to the alliance maintaining that, and the stories I picked re-enforce that for a reason. But it is not true that the horde doens't need humans. Your basing this on your perception of data on your realm. I'm looking at an ALL-REALMS all regions perpective, and using data from several sources some of which you very likely don't know about or have access to.

    I'll help you with this, because I've stated it before. It's not hard to notice that end game favours horde on a lot of realms, the competitive population which I'm think constitutes most forum posters goes horde, however the much larger casusal, non-end game, and new players choose the other faction. The reason why the competitive choose horde is because of the better racials. The reason the horde has better racials is so that they keep choosing horde because if they don't, the alliance numbers would grow out of whack again.

    Balance has everything to do with much of how wow has developed, and it is hurting the franchise, the stories are so biased and skewed, the inequality obvious, because they have to make the horde more attractive than the alliance so people keep picking them instead. Put living humans on the horde and it would solve that problem, people won't need one faction cooler/better racials/better stories/better plots/better quests to keep picking them, they would go horde for other reasons now that they can pick the only race the majority identify with.

    put living humans on the horde, the people will identify with the horde that has seemed alien despite it's very humane direction over the last 8 years of WoW. With equal numbers and people not being enticed to pick the horde over the alliance by making them altogether more attractive in as many ways as posible, you will find the experience will improve dramatically, with better stories, better challengies, equal racials... Scenario: Alliance has racials just as good? won't cause everyone to flock to alliance because they're prettier, they'd have pretty on the horde too in blood elves and human forsaken even if human forsaken are a sub-group and not a full new race.

    I envision great stories of friendships and bravery between humans, blood elves and orcs, a richer horde experience that is not inflated by blatant obvious bias. I see the un-nerfing of race like night elves, no need to keep them suppressed in fear they'd attract too many players back to the alliance. And no, I wouldn't give playable high elves to the alliance, at least untill I was certain it would help ensure good balance

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by logintime View Post
    god, I'm looking forward to Blizzcon if only so these inane sub-race threads can be shot down and forgotten in short order.
    Then blizzcon hits, and they announce sub-races, what will you do then? don't shoot yourself! give me time to gloat

  7. #287
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by logintime View Post
    god, I'm looking forward to Blizzcon if only so these inane sub-race threads can be shot down and forgotten in short order.
    And now it's getting even worse with the fanfic writers crossbreeding their threads. Just a few weeks and all of the current theorycrafing threads will be replaces with "Well the new expansion will suck" threads.

  8. #288
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ailyara View Post
    Come to think of it, everyone I know who is in the horde is a human.


    As for the question:

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by -Kasumi View Post
    I l roflmao
    Quote Originally Posted by -Kasumi View Post
    As for the question:
    you didn't really answer, the affirmative or negatice is not a response to how you feel. or why you feel it. Love the cat.. that was hilarious

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Steppinrazor View Post
    And now it's getting even worse with the fanfic writers crossbreeding their threads. Just a few weeks and all of the current theorycrafing threads will be replaces with "Well the new expansion will suck" threads.
    oh the naysayers, polluting ideas with mindless blank negative statements, nothing constructive to add, positive or negative.

    and if you didn't realize, yesterdays fanfic writers are todays creative development writers.

  11. #291
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by xytech View Post
    Humans vs Orcs, that's the essence of Alliance vs Horde. Get humans on both and it'll just feel wrong, I'd say we should kill them again and resurrect them as undeads if they were ever to come back to "life".
    Agree.. pandas already feels wrong..

    horde should have ogres, alliance pandas..

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Paladzins View Post
    Agree.. pandas already feels wrong..

    horde should have ogres, alliance pandas..
    but that's not going to happen, we' re not getting new races, we're getting sub races. and as for this WoW is "humans vs orcs so we can't have playable humans", that's really dumb thing to say if you knew warcraft lore. Having humans on the horde never changed that when alterac sided with teh horde in wc2 and when the forsaken joined the horde in WoW, why on azeroth would it change if you got to play some of those forsaken as living instead of dead.. answer = it won't/ Humans have been in the horde in one form or another sicne WC2, allowing you to play breathing version won't change anything about the core, but it would really make the horde more popular naturally.

    Pandas is a different thing altogether, forsaekn living humans feels as wrong as forsaken do on the horde, no different, because they're the same people, it's all in your mind..but if you still feel wrong about it, that's hwo you feel.

    even to this day many people feel wrong about blood elves being on the horde, but they play those very blood elves. Afterall people are use to doing what feels wrong anyway, no questions asked.
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2013-11-03 at 12:00 PM.

  13. #293
    Pit Lord Anium's Avatar
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    WOULD THIS MEAN WE GET FREE TRINKET???? WOOT

    but seriously would hate that if it ever happened.

  14. #294
    Deleted
    maybe like vampries in some movies , they look human and have no undead bits hanging off them . that's the only way that I could see that alive humans could still be considered forsaken so be in the horde. saying that dark iron dwarfs should also get to join the horde as well as dark elves hehe , but what would the alliance get in return , I dunno.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizo View Post
    maybe like vampries in some movies , they look human and have no undead bits hanging off them . that's the only way that I could see that alive humans could still be considered forsaken so be in the horde. saying that dark iron dwarfs should also get to join the horde as well as dark elves hehe , but what would the alliance get in return , I dunno.
    I like the idea of a vampire like su-theme to them, I know Raven proposed this earlier as one for the possibliites, so you get very human looking, like they're alive, but they're not really or as you say alive, but with some defects.

    I think using blood elf models instead of alliance human models would be sufficient to give them a distinctive look, the idea of adding rot of some sort would have only been to distinguish them from the alliance models if they used those models for them.

    Players won't really care, to them what would matter is whether they can play human or not, they wouldn't mind if horde humans looked different from alliance humans, they're attracted to playing humans, they identify with them more.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    but that's not going to happen, we' re not getting new races, we're getting sub races.
    How do you know that?
    Protip: Don't confuse your bad fan theory with what Blizzard's actually going to do.

  17. #297
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Disreali View Post
    Protip: Don't confuse your bad fan theory with what Blizzard's actually going to do.
    Looking at the last few years, I don't think even Blizzard knows what Blizzard is doing.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    Looking at the last few years, I don't think even Blizzard knows what Blizzard is doing.
    That's fair enough
    Still, this guy's going off about us getting sub races like it's guaranteed when we've yet to see a single thing indicating that's the direction Blizz is going in.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    and as for this WoW is "humans vs orcs so we can't have playable humans", that's really dumb thing to say if you knew warcraft lore.
    No, it's not. What's dumb is to suggest that the central Alliance race become playable for the Horde. Are we going to open orcs up the Alliance next?

    Having humans on the horde never changed that when alterac sided with teh horde in wc2...Humans have been in the horde in one form or another sicne WC2, allowing you to play breathing version won't change anything about the core...
    Um...Alterac was destroyed precisely because it betrayed the Alliance and sided with the Horde. Not exactly a strong precedent for playable Horde humans, Sparky.

    and when the forsaken joined the horde in WoW, why on azeroth would it change if you got to play some of those forsaken as living instead of dead.. answer = it won't/
    It's established that Lordaeron humans who survived the Scourge invasion either remained loyal to the Alliance or joined the Scarlet Crusade. Neither faction being friendly towards the Horde. The Forsaken didn't even join the Horde out of any love towards it. It was purely an alliance of convenience.

    even to this day many people feel wrong about blood elves being on the horde, but they play those very blood elves. Afterall people are use to doing what feels wrong anyway, no questions asked.
    To the bolded part. No. Not really.
    To the rest of it, I'd guess that the majority of Horde players who had a real problem with blood elves in the Horde never really got around to seriously playing one. True, lots of Horde players do play them, but your logic of "people who don't like things will do them anyway" is so flawed it's laughable. And I'll promise you that more people would dislike playable Horde humans then they did playable Horde elves.

    but it would really make the horde more popular naturally.
    Seriously dude? The Horde's pretty popular as is. At least half the player base plays it (which is as popular as any side should be in a faction-based MMORPG). I'd dare say that among end-game players the Horde's even a bit more popular then the Alliance. Why do you feel the Horde needs to be made more popular? It's extremely popular without humans.

    In short, No. No humans in the Horde please. It's a terrible idea. I'm not one of those people to say "IF BLIZZARD DOES X THE GAME WILL BE RUINED FOREVER" about every little thing, but this is one instance where I'll take that stand. Adding humans to the Horde will ruin the game forever.
    Last edited by Disreali; 2013-11-03 at 01:54 PM.

  19. #299
    Deleted
    @ravenmoon
    It just feels wrong, just like Pandas do already.

  20. #300
    Warchief Sand Person's Avatar
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    zombie humans > living humans

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