Immature young or older people is the reason why Mists of Pandaria didn't "fit"..

[Cooper]

I'm still simply amazed at how many people can simply reject all of the evidence that Pandaren were part of the Warcraft lore years and years before anyone even conceived of Kung Fu Panda. If A exists before B exists, than despite any perceived similarity, A simply cannot be a copy of B.

That's not true at all, since while Chen exists in "The Frozen Throne", Pandaren (and Pandaria, which had no presence whatsoever in Warcraft 3) as a whole were not implemented into "World of Warcraft" until after Kung Fu Panda was released.

The concept existed; the execution did not. If you think Kung Fu Panda had no influence on "Mists of Pandaria", you're out of your mind. Just look at the Pandaren art design or their racials, namely "Epicurean" and "Bouncy". I do not believe for a moment that Blizzard did not pull those from the movie, considering they are Po's dominant character attributes.

[Gnome]

That's not true at all, since while Chen exists in "The Frozen Throne", Pandaren (and Pandaria, which had no presence whatsoever in Warcraft 3) as a whole were not implemented into "World of Warcraft" until after Kung Fu Panda was released.

The concept existed; the execution did not. If you think Kung Fu Panda had no influence on "Mists of Pandaria", you're out of your mind. Just look at the Pandaren art design or their racials, namely "Epicurean" and "Bouncy". I do not believe for a moment that Blizzard did not pull those from the movie, considering they are Po's dominant character attributes.

So what? Let people enjoy what they enjoy.

[Deleted]

The problem with kids today is they hate everything, and they are easily led by other kids "opinions" and adopt them as their own. For example the Kung-fu Panda thing, some moron draws a comparison and suddenly the internet is flooded with "M8 dem kong u pandaz 4 kidz". Finding an informed opinion based on facts and logic is rare these days, it's all just the same trash repeated over and over.

I like MoP. This is something I decided for myself by actually playing the game. It has it's faults, sure, but what expansion didn't have it's problems? To argue that Pandaren are childish and do not fit is possibly the worst thing you could say, if you signed up for WoW you signed up for a fantasy world with "childish" elements, that is what WoW is. That's what all games are. All games appeal to our childish side, even horror ones. Isn't Pokemon mainly played by young adults?

Next time you feel like bitching about something, maybe just consider are you expressing a genuine opinion or just saying something to "fit in" or just because you think having an opposing opinion (that you genuinely don't even agree with) will get you noticed. Cos ultimately the loser in the situation is yourself, and people like me will see you as a boring, zero-personality flake

[AbsolutePitch]

All acknowledgment of subjective opinions aside, the reason I personally (and know many others) feel that Pandaria didn't fit WoW is because of its lore. The Pandaren race itself isn't an issue, seeing as Chen has been in the world since the RTS games, but the vast majority of Pandaren lore was taken straight out of Chinese mythology, which stands in stark contrast to the Nordic/Gothic/High Fantasy mythologies we've come to associate with WoW. The template for their art design and mob design and all that jazz is obviously Chinese-inspired.

With that being said, the expansion as it stands on its own is actually quite brilliant. I enjoyed it more as an aside to the Warcraft continuity, but as far as how it fits into the Warcraft world at large, stylistically there is a very good case for why it's just not cohesive with everything else thus far. For me, MoP to WoW is the equivalent of what Uldum was to Cata: a zone based entirely on real world references -sadly, the zone was pretty much an Indiana Jones spoof in its entirety- amid a series of original, thoughtful and breathtaking zones that remained loyal to the Warcraft world. MoP just strayed too far from the verse set by the RTS, and while that doesn't constitute that it's "bad" or "childish," I just felt a lot of its art and design was unoriginal and misplaced (although it was executed quite beautifully).

[Zeras]

Here i will give a comparison of why i think blizzard lately just went all wtf mode.

this is the present



and here is the past



And this is why i want nagas for next expansion.

So some random orc lets call him gary can be stomping on the bad guys and be all rargh.

but nah nevermind that, cute and cuddly pandas going "im gwowing a beard" is more interesting and warcrafty.

Pardon if i am so blunt, but now im just being honest about my opinion and there is nothing immature about what you prefer. Some people like huge explosions and others like rainbow ponies, take your pick but Warcraft was originally about a brutal, cruel and dark world with a cartoony feel and humour to it so it didn't become black as the blackest black like Warhammer, cause that's a pitch black world.

pandas themselves where not the complete problem, calling a whole expansion after them is, but the whole cuddlyness and stupid behaviour some people have around them is really what's annoying.

[Synstir]

I'm still simply amazed at how many people can simply reject all of the evidence that Pandaren were part of the Warcraft lore years and years before anyone even conceived of Kung Fu Panda. If A exists before B exists, than despite any perceived similarity, A simply cannot be a copy of B.

I guess I should not be so amazed though. Look at all the people who believe in Jesus, a dude with essentially no historical record to back up that he even existed, let alone did any of the stuff attributed to him.

Hi there,
very nice you had to make this point, as it was made earlier :-)
So I am going to repeat what I said, as clearly you don't see that not every wow player now, is a former warcraft-player.

The fact that pandaren where part of wc doesn't mean the public knows that, only the wc players know that.
KungFu Panda is know to a far more broader public.... and the way they are positioned in wow, just refers to most of the people, to KungFy panda than to wc III.

I don't think anyone watching KFPanda was going like: "Hey that is a pandaren from WC!" Do you?
But people seeing the pandaren in wow, do go: "Kung Fu Panda!"

That is the difference.
People compare and make use of references to create an impression about anything.
With pandaren, the reference is clear.

And why bring Jesus Chist in here?
Do you believe Thrall, Deathwing, LK are real entities?
Jesus is surrounded by doubt.. sure... we don;t know if he really existed, there is no real proof.
But Thrall, FDeathwing and such: They are made up; that we know 100%. And still we see people on forums defending them and defending lore (fairytales) as if their very lifes depended on it.

[975312468]

I thought the Pandaren were supposed to stand out. I mean, they've not been a part of the world for thousands of years and don't have conflict among themselves. They have to deal with the Mantid every so often, but the large majority of the population has lived in peace for all that time. What reason do they have to not be a fun race that sees things light heatedly? The Pandaren as a race have no real reason to be muscular intimidating or serious, and I think that's the point. They're supposed to represent a different lifestyle, where everyone enjoys life and has fun.

In my eyes, the Pandarens entire existence is just to show the Horde and Alliance what they are fighting for (but failing to achieve because they are fighting). At the end of the day, the entire reason we stopped the Lich King, Deathwing and more, is just so that people can live to enjoy life as the Pandaren do. Trying to see the Pandaren on the same terms as any other race introduced to the game (such as Worgen or Blood Elves which have darker themes) is looking at the Pandaren all wrong.

Also, once you get past the Pandaren, the entire expansion fits fine with the Warcraft style. You got trolls, tyrants and Old God forces. Seems to fit with the entire of World of Warcraft to me.

This is how I see the expansion anyway :/

[Gnome]

Oh so cuddly.

[Thunderball]

Ok let's break it down. It all started with this: http://classic.battle.net/war3/pandaren/ April Fools joke. As you can see even though it was a joke pandaren didnt have any cartoonish feels to them. Dark, sturdy, skillful but slightly funny (they are still pandas). Then we had a pandaren brewmaster hero appear in WC3:TFT game. At first there was only a hero, no Chen, since Horde campaign wasnt released with the game (was added later, and pandaren werent expected to be included to the campaign because it was a joke, but Blizzard apparently decided to go with it). The hero now already resembled the feel that people today recognise as kung-fu panda feel.

Then the horde campaign was added which contained Chen Stormstout, traveling pandaren brewmaster. The only thing that was known about him from the lore was that he was from Pandaria (pandaren land, which could be anywhere, not even on Azeroth for certain) and was traveling for two reasons: he apparenly wasnt widely accepted among pandaren people and he wanted to explore brew recepies elsewhere. That's about all that we knew about pandaren before the actual expansion. There was a reference quest in Barrens and that's about it.

What I mean with all of it is that Blizzard could've done anything out of it. It would be still asian themed but I dont have a problem with that. Chinese are not renowed for their cartoons and children entertaiment, but for martial arts, science and war art prowess, industry and agriculture. Apparently agriculture is the only thing that asians and pandaren have in common. In the end we get drunken animals, pokemon and sha (whatever) in WoW. What a mess.

[Gnome]

Ok let's break it down. It all started with this: http://classic.battle.net/war3/pandaren/ April Fools joke. As you can see even though it was a joke pandaren didnt have any cartoonish feels to them. Dark, sturdy, skillful but slightly funny (they are still pandas). Then we had a pandaren brewmaster hero appear in WC3:TFT game. At first there was only a hero, no Chen, since Horde campaign wasnt released with the game (was added later, and pandaren werent expected to be included to the campaign because it was a joke, but Blizzard apparently decided to go with it). The hero now already resembled the feel that people today recognise as kung-fu panda feel.

Then the horde campaign was added which contained Chen Stormstout, traveling pandaren brewmaster. The only thing that was known about him from the lore was that he was from Pandaria (pandaren land, which could be anywhere, not even on Azeroth for certain) and was traveling for two reasons: he apparenly wasnt widely accepted among pandaren people and he wanted to explore brew recepies elsewhere. That's about all that we knew about pandaren before the actual expansion. There was a reference quest in Barrens and that's about it.

What I mean with all of it is that Blizzard could've done anything out of it. It would be still asian themed but I dont have a problem with that. Chinese are not renowed for their cartoons and children entertaiment, but for martial arts, science and war art prowess, industry and agriculture. Apparently agriculture is the only thing that asians and pandaren have in common. In the end we get drunken animals, pokemon and sha (whatever) in WoW. What a mess.

That's a very sad story for you. I'm just having the best of times in this expansion, and I'm quite happy about the cheerful atmosphere in the beginning as it demonstrates how untouched this hidden land has been, when Shaohao sacrificed himself for everyone on Pandaria. Anyways, going to play the game now. Have fun here.

[Mihalik]

I never complained about Panda's. I find them no more childish then I find Tauren, Gnomes or Elves.

I honestly don't really seen anything Anime overload-ish in Pandaria either.

I just hate MoP because I hate the Asian theme. I perfectly understand that some people dig it. And that is fine. But myself and many others liked WoW because it was always grounded in Western Fantasy. Orcs and Dwarfs, Hordes and Grand Alliances, Undead and Elves, Sword, steampunk and Magic, Winged Dragons, Pantheons and Old Gods.

Asian influences were there, but they were subtle and fit the grand scheme of things. Night elf architecture, Mongol horde thing of the Orcs.

For me every single Asian themed building in MoP is an epic eyesore. I fucking hate the Shrine, Panda villages, Jade temple, and that lame ass Wall. I do sort of like Shado-Pan monastery.

This is why I think that creating an entire expansion around Asian themes was an epic mistake. One zone like Timeless Isle and a starting area for the Pandaren would have been more then sufficient.

So far 5.4 is my favorite patch, because it has the least of the Asian theme stuff, and the most of the essence of WoW. Epic fantasy.

[Shiny212]

Immature young or older people is the reason why Mists of Pandaria didn't "fit" the World of Warcraft universe, in their mind.

You understand that it's not really mature to say "Oh gosh, that Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs movie is so childish, so cartoonish! Geez!".

So my point is, it's quite funny when some people have the urge and need to say something that is cartoonish, is childish. ~ Because saying that itself, is childish.

A mature mind understands there is quite many flavors, and it's all artwork to be judged by yourself only, so if you don't like it. Doesn't mean it's bad or childish, it might be because you don't understand it or simply doesn't like it. And that's fine.

How you act, can be childish.
How someone portray art cannot be childish as it's not a matter of behavior in the art.
If you simple don't agree or like the art, you are the one that is left outside of understanding or appreciating the art.

That doesn't mean anything, but quite often.. immature young or older people believe it means something..
As like they have found the holy grail.. that they understand something.. that no one else understands..
When it's quite the opposite. Thank you! Now I hope we can learn something from this.

You know, older Disney films are alot less immature and childish than MoP, especially Snow White. That's a film about jealousy, death, murder and love. When it was made it was considered avant-garde to handle themes such as that in a "children's" hand-drawn film. Its first screening was also mostly for grown ups, including film history wizards such as Sergei Eisenstein who called it the best film ever made. I don't think anyone would describe it in the way you did.

And it's not like the people who didn't think MoP fit are against it because it's cartoonish, WoW is and has always been cartoonish, it's the general theme and art design that's the issue, some people don't like it when the entire expansion is modeled on china. There's also the fact that instead of making pandaren look "cool" they were made to be comic relief, there's really no point in denying that. And go ahead and spam all the races already in the game that are so un-serious, talking cows etc, but take another look, there's a significant difference in art-style between every previous WoW race and the pandaren.

[khalltusk]

Maybe you should study teens and their interests?

And I have countered that by saying the younger audience (except for Khalltusk's niece) enjoys stuff like zombies and undead (WotLK) and demons (TBC) over Pandaren.
So you are saying that they shifted the target audience by including things that the average (Happy, Khalltusk?) member of that audience doesn't like?

That younger audience consists mostly out of early-pubescent teens.
Raging hormons and panda's do not blend well.

So unless you can prove that the average age of the WoW-player dropped massively you don't actually have an argument?
Good to know!

Silly me.
I always thought they were asking themselves how they can increase the rate of new players while slow down the departure of old players.
Apparently they are only caring about "Is our game childish or not?".

Yeh im happy although you can leave out the lippy attitude though.

Just a thought (one I've said a few times) the game certainly has a more family friendly look to it on the box art. A lot of people play the game would have kids and I do know a fair few whos own kids play the game with them. It would not surprise me to think that the game does cater to some younger audience members in addition to the teen/adult audience anyway.

[Cooper]

"Talking cows" is not a legitimate comparison as Tauren are quite clearly Warcraft's version of Minotaurs. Same with Worgen obviously being werewolves. Neither of them are anthropomorphized cartoon animals like the Pandaren are.

[Vaelorian]

Yeh im happy although you can leave out the lippy attitude though.

Just a thought (one I've said a few times) the game certainly has a more family friendly look to it on the box art. A lot of people play the game would have kids and I do know a fair few whos own kids play the game with them. It would not surprise me to think that the game does cater to some younger audience members in addition to the teen/adult audience anyway.

So funny that some people find that the sole reason for the decline in subs must be Pandas. It has nothing to do with convenience features and decline in community or something like that. It has nothing to do with the boring dailies. It has nothing to do with blizzard claiming it is really casual friendly when in fact it is not if you want to have a decent character/be in a decent (casual raiding)guild.

I react to you tho bro because atleast with you I can have a reasonable conversation. Not because you disagree or something

edit: I am also not claiming that the theme this expansion had no impact on subs. But even tho no one has numbers, I very very much doubt that this is the biggest or one of the biggest reasons.

[evansp]

I just came back to WoW after a 3.5 year absense mostly because of the pandas. Im 44 years old and WoW finally looked interesting again. My wife saw me leveling a panda and thought it was cute so she started playing again. All the snobs on here crack me up, it's a VIDEO GAME, enjoy it or don't play but to sit on here and piss and moan about pandas being in the game is comical, in my humble, old aged opinion.

[Vaelorian]

I just came back to WoW after a 3.5 year absense mostly because of the pandas. Im 44 years old and WoW finally looked interesting again. My wife saw me leveling a panda and thought it was cute so she started playing again. All the snobs on here crack me up, it's a VIDEO GAME, enjoy it or don't play but to sit on here and piss and moan about pandas being in the game is comical, in my humble, old aged opinion.

yay finally some words of wisdom

[Deleted]

Im 44 years old and WoW finally looked interesting again.

Nowadays we have people in the 30s and 40s who think anime characters are sexy and buy little sparkling ponies.

I wouldn't put much value on age, maturity and taste going hand in hand any more.

but to sit on here and piss and moan

Last I checked you didn't run or own this place so as far as I am concerned, as long as the admins don't lock the thread, we can talk about our opinions on the matter until the cows come home.

If you have a problem with it, don't click the thread.

[Tart]

I just dont like the whole Oriental theme, it has nothing to do with Pandas. I just prefer the whole Western Europe medieval style.

[Tacotruck]

That's not true at all, since while Chen exists in "The Frozen Throne", Pandaren (and Pandaria, which had no presence whatsoever in Warcraft 3) as a whole were not implemented into "World of Warcraft" until after Kung Fu Panda was released.

The concept existed; the execution did not. If you think Kung Fu Panda had no influence on "Mists of Pandaria", you're out of your mind. Just look at the Pandaren art design or their racials, namely "Epicurean" and "Bouncy". I do not believe for a moment that Blizzard did not pull those from the movie, considering they are Po's dominant character attributes.

The lore existed, therefore the Pandaren existed. Sure some stuff from more recent pop culture came into play for the final implementation, that is nothing new with Blizz. All of the races have their pop culture influences that came along after their original introduction.