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  1. #1

    Spec for normal garrosh as progression?

    I don't normally ask stuff like this, but the WoL ranks on this fight don't seem useful to me.

    We got to Garrosh last night, and pretty quickly were making it halfway through phase 2. If we were gonna have that exact same raid on Sunday I don't think it would matter what I took, the boss would die. But instead we'll be missing our warlock, who does so much add damage in p1 that the iron stars are superflous. Still, even without him, I don't consider them to be any kind of issue, or p1 to be any kind of challenge.

    My combat ilvl is a bit higher than my other specs. I generally consider sub to be my best spec, but not by a huge amount. Mutilate I have an easy time with the rotation. What I haven't had enough time on to have a feel for, is the phase-3 and late phase-2 parts, where I have to swap to adds constantly. We only would get there for a little bit before we'd wipe.

    What would you guys suggest?

  2. #2
    The biggest sell for combat in this fight is if your tasked with cleaving the adds on p1. If you are then I'd stick with it, if not, then mutilate is probably best, but there really isn't much in them – go with what your most comfortable with.
    Sub single target seems strong, but losses a bit of damage during the transition phases while Garrosh is constantly moving around, as as well as the add phases in the later part of the fight. Also, don't forget, you will get a lot of execute uptime in this fight which serves mutilate well.

  3. #3
    Actually, the execute argument is one I hadn't considered. All of P3 will be within dispatch range, right? And that's the part that I want to aim at. Pretty sure that's it, thanks!

  4. #4
    I've only done this fight as sub so far, both on 25 and 10m normal, but I can say that positioning really isn't an issue if you're comfortable with sub. Long fight means more chances for your burst rotation - and sub's single target is pretty damn strong. That said, choosing the spec really depends on your priority for serving your raid group - if you've got ample cleave covered, as I did in my comp, sub is excellent for pushing the boss on time in p1 and p2 while others are busy cleaving. Added bonus is that during the transition phases you have maybe the strongest single target, and on a stationary boss that offers his back; and, esp. if you have AoC, your CDs will be up constantly. If p3 is an issue, as I expect it is for most raid groups, while sub may lose a little bit in a straight-up competition with assassination's execute, it does offer safer means of breaking MCs - whereas assassination leaves a monster poison dot, most of sub's damage is up front in physical bursts... All in all, assassination is probably easier in terms of rotation and positioning req's; assassination offers better aoe by far (if needed); assassination has damage back-loaded in its strong execute, and the boss stays in the execute phase for several minutes. If I weren't already sub/combat for the majority of normal encounters and h progression, and if I weren't lazy, I'd probably go assassination for Garrosh.

    TL;DR. Just my 2 cents: Sub is viable here for boss pushing; otherwise assassination for quicker p3. P1 adds are relevant only in p1, and even then not a big deal - why go combat?

  5. #5
    The execute range shouldn't make that much of a difference. Don't most dps just burn Garrosh either all of P3 or after the first set of adds is down? Sub should be great for that assuming you have a prep ready, even better with an AoC, thought Mut is more cruise control obv.

  6. #6
    Honestly all three specs are viable so i recommend playing whichever feels most natural to you or spec based on what your raid lacks i.e if you have lots of cleave specs play sub or assassination if not combat will shine.

    Here's a link to my guilds logs which you can look through which you'll find me playing all three specs whilst progressing on Garrosh to try to figure out which is best but ultimately they are all very close. ( sorry i can't post links yet )

    I find the safest choice to be Assassination on progression fights because it's the simplest rotation, allows relatively good cleaving with poisons and positioning isn't really an issue when compared to sub.

  7. #7
    Will definitely try sub, but i think Assassination will be a better choice, especially for progression for the reasons Feliara said in the previous post.
    Why worry about the future when you can just asfatatotl.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome khatsoo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Barcelona, Spain
    Assassination was perfect for me.
    There's not that many add switches considering you handle the first adds only by FoKing a bit during envenoms and only focusing on the Shamans (which should be two or three max during that phase). And on phases later on you only switch once the Tornado thing is empowered which should be after 2 interphases (and they die so quickly). The mind controls are kind of the same, the only problem with Assassination is that you are leaving strong poisons on them, do not use rupture on them though!

  9. #9
    Last night as combat I mindlessly redirected our lock, revealing strike, and then as he cast noticed my kick was down, so I kidneyed him. He was less than impressed with a 5 point revealing strike kidney shot...

    Anyway, while I'm sure all the specs work, I'm looking for what will help us get the boss down the first time. Since p1 is mostly going to be Luna (ele shaman) watching big numbers, I'm not concerned about it, whereas I really want something that will excel at p3. I'm sure that assassination during dispatch phase kicks the shit out of all our other specs- even sub's greater ST damage relies on the bulk of the fight not being in dispatch range to make that happen, right? So mutilate seems the real call given where we stand.

  10. #10
    For progression I would propably recommend assassination. If your dps on adds is high, you might want to consider subtlety aswell.
    Main: Rogue - Alt: Balance Druid

  11. #11
    Why would you consider Subtlety over Assassination? P3 is without a doubt the hardest part of the fight on normal mode and it's almost only execute.

  12. #12
    4Set Bonus and assurance consequence allows sub to keep up with and potentially beat the assassination execute phase.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Feliara View Post
    4Set Bonus and assurance consequence allows sub to keep up with and potentially beat the assassination execute phase.
    Nope, it makes subtlety able to beat assassination over the whole fight. During execute range assassination is still stronger.
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

    i5-4670k @ 4.5 / Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme / Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM / Gigabyte GTX 760

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Feliara View Post
    4Set Bonus and assurance consequence allows sub to keep up with and potentially beat the assassination execute phase.
    As Fluoresence says, I seriously doubt this.

    Pretend that you reset your meter at the start of P3, and that's all you care about. That's my goal here. I don't doubt that S will beat A over the whole fight- not only am I pretty good at S (generally my favorite spec), but I'm also a night elf, granting me several other find weaknesses phases, while shadowmeld offers nothing (and is not used) in the other specs.

    But even with all that, I doubt it will outdamage mutilate during the dispatch phase.

  15. #15
    Honestly the most important thing on normal imo is pushing p3 with only 2 realms IF you can. Getting adds spawn and then going into the realm blows massively and a 3rd realm means you will have to deal with empowered MC in p2. Now if you can push that either way or if you can't push that either way, sure go for a bit more dps in p3.

  16. #16
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Sydney, NSW
    Combat, you do dickswing dps in phase 1 and then the single target is really close to sub anyway

  17. #17
    But it's progression, not meter chasing. I want to excel at the hard part of the fight. P1 sure as shit isn't that!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Shadowcraft claims, by the way, that execute mutilate is about 15% greater damage than non-execute mutilate- and it generates its results by averaging those two together at the expected rate (normally it expects execute to be 35% of the fight, but you can configure this).

    This means that a fight that was fully dispatch range would make mutilate about 10% more damage than a typical fight. I doubt mutilate time 1.1 is going to be less than sub.

  18. #18
    But also consider that if you are just looking at p3, you are optimizing for probably a 50-60 second duration. Scaling down to that doesn't benefit all the specs equally. Just messing with it a bit in SC, combat with t15 looks to gain the most (as a percentage) with a short window like that.

  19. #19
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Engineering Corner of Shrine
    Did you remember to set "time in execute range" to 1? Assassination is really strong in execution phase, with or without cooldowns. I'd recommend assassination for progressing Garrosh normal unless your combat weapons are better. It's just so good in the part of the fight that matters.

  20. #20
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Sydney, NSW
    Yeah but the single target is awesome as combat anyway, So there's no reason to play mut at all really, it's a dead spec imo

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