"Dominated" BGs, it's all mindset.

[Kaleredar]

I don't know how long it's been since I've seen a horde victory in Isle of Conquest.

I could maybe "get" that the more traditional battlegrounds, like Warsong Gulch, Arathi Basin, Eye of the Storm, and so forth have more or less "even" win ratios, but... frankly, I wouldn't believe that about Isle of Conquest or Alterac Valley. And if they DO have "Even win ratios," either the horde on my battlegroup are unnaturally terrible at them, or I'm just a really good leader who people listen to.

[CheeseSandwich]

Oqueue's score board doesnt just track BG wins, it also tracks who is completing NPC contracts and general player/faction involvement.

[Itisamuh]

I don't really find the bunker/tower thing to be an issue. Alliance do have more map advantages than horde on that map, because it is not symmetrical. Isle of Conquest, however, offers Alliance nothing amazing, but Horde seem to totally fail at it pretty easily.

Human racial is the best alliance pvp racial. It is by no means the best pvp racial in general, which is wotf and always has been.

What is shocking is how ludicrous the W/L ratio becomes on a non-symmetrical map that favors horde, such as the dumb mine map, or (to a lesser extent) AB. But all you need to know that you should implement same faction pvp is the W/L ratio on eots, wsg, sota, and really anything where it is actually a fair fight, and the horde still win most of the games. Once you start to see that (and we've been seeing more of that this expac than before) it's a clear call for same faction BGs- otherwise you actually begin to reward the better players for stacking one faction (in this case horde).

The imbalance in IoC isn't as obvious as it is in AV, but it's definitely Alliance favored. The Docks node spawns so much closer to the Alliance base that they're pretty much guaranteed to get it, while the others are centered and more easily contested. On top of that, Docks is the best single node to have. Horde has to get both Hangar and Workshop, attack east gate, and kill at least the first wave of glaives without losing anything to really have a chance. In AV though those bunkers are definitely an issue. Horde towers are so much easier to assault and hold until destroyed than Alliance towers are, and as you said, the map symmetry and rush distance also favors them. It isn't that good Horde players aren't around to carry, or anything to do with mindset. It's that Horde has to try way harder to win than Alliance does, and most players simply don't want to have to deal with it, so they blacklist those two. The fact that they're the least prone to actual PvP doesn't help them, either.

[Kaleredar]

The imbalance in IoC isn't as obvious as it is in AV, but it's definitely Alliance favored. The Docks node spawns so much closer to the Alliance base that they're pretty much guaranteed to get it, while the others are centered and more easily contested. On top of that, Docks is the best single node to have. Horde has to get both Hangar and Workshop, attack east gate, and kill at least the first wave of glaives without losing anything to really have a chance. In AV though those bunkers are definitely an issue. Horde towers are so much easier to assault and hold until destroyed than Alliance towers are, and as you said, the map symmetry and rush distance also favors them. It isn't that good Horde players aren't around to carry, or anything to do with mindset. It's that Horde has to try way harder to win than Alliance does, and most players simply don't want to have to deal with it, so they blacklist those two. The fact that they're the least prone to actual PvP doesn't help them, either.

The entire horde team takes hangar (the Ally never contest it,) save four or five people- comprised of hunters, rogues, druids, hell, even mages- who kill the glaive throwers along the road.

Entire horde team runs bombs within Ally base. Congrats, the horde won.

Now, I rarely ever see the horde do this, but... that's pretty much all it would take. Workshop demos are slow as hell in breaking down gates, no one runs bombs from it; the only reason ally go there is to 1) stop the horde from having it and 2) distract them while the glaives destroy their gates. It only approaches usefulness when the seige engine spawns.

An entire team running bombs inside a base via hangar will beat out glaive throwers by a slim margin.

[Itisamuh]

The entire horde team takes hangar (the Ally never contest it,) save four or five people- comprised of hunters, rogues, druids, hell, even mages- who kill the glaive throwers along the road.

Entire horde team runs bombs within Ally base. Congrats, the horde won.

Now, I rarely ever see the horde do this, but... that's pretty much all it would take. Workshop demos are slow as hell in breaking down gates, no one runs bombs from it; the only reason ally go there is to 1) stop the horde from having it and 2) distract them while the glaives destroy their gates. It only approaches usefulness when the seige engine spawns.

An entire team running bombs inside a base via hangar will beat out glaive throwers by a slim margin.

I would have to disagree. You can only run four bombs from in the base at a time, no matter how many people are in there. I have been in games where people were running bombs as fast as possible, hitting the gate with the gunship, and had workshop vehicles, and still were slower than the glaives and bomb runners from catapults. If the glaives are left alone, Alliance wins.

[Kaleredar]

I would have to disagree. You can only run four bombs from in the base at a time, no matter how many people are in there. I have been in games where people were running bombs as fast as possible, hitting the gate with the gunship, and had workshop vehicles, and still were slower than the glaives and bomb runners from catapults. If the glaives are left alone, Alliance wins.

Unless they changed the spawn rate, the horde were fully capable of downing our gates at a speed rivaling glaive speed.

And even then, the solution is still simple... you'd just have to kill the glaives. They die so easily it's not even funny. A rogue can pop evasion and burn a glaive down before the Alliance can do anything about it. A hunter using stampede+traps and then deterrence can do the same.

[walkingtall]

You can predict the outcome of AV/IoC without even leaving the base or cave if you know what to look for. It has nothing to do with positive thinking. It's simply a numbers problem and while you might get lucky and pull off a win, or draw a group of good players, for the most part, right now, it won't happen.

Now, in different times, I might agree with you. Horde, historically, has tried to lose AV and they don't even need major changes to even it out a bit. IoC is something I don't even want to get into. Horde used to dominate that BG. I take a break, come back, and everything changed including the gate they attack, the strategy (go hangar, go hangar, hangar, hangar.....) and the W/L rate. Screw it. It has more bots than any other BG and the players haven't got a clue. It's never coming off my blacklist as long as I have one.

[Krixooks]

You can predict the outcome of AV/IoC without even leaving the base or cave if you know what to look for. It has nothing to do with positive thinking. It's simply a numbers problem and while you might get lucky and pull off a win, or draw a group of good players, for the most part, right now, it won't happen.

Now, in different times, I might agree with you. Horde, historically, has tried to lose AV and they don't even need major changes to even it out a bit. IoC is something I don't even want to get into. Horde used to dominate that BG. I take a break, come back, and everything changed including the gate they attack, the strategy (go hangar, go hangar, hangar, hangar.....) and the W/L rate. Screw it. It has more bots than any other BG and the players haven't got a clue. It's never coming off my blacklist as long as I have one.

The fact that Horde used to always win IoC, and now loses every time, proves that it's all about positive thinking.
What changed in IoC? nothing.

[Khwaj]

The fact that Horde used to always win IoC, and now loses every time, proves that it's all about positive thinking.
What changed in IoC? nothing.

besides the mass bots in IoC
horde arent killing glaives anymore, seriously 1.2million hp doesnt take long to kill
alliance now go for WS and Docks(use to be just docks)

seriously dont meet them head on, let them cap both of them and then kill the glaives and sieges and alliance will lose more often
i see too many horde going for hanger

same goes to AV, i hardly ever see horde backcap or defend, usually 3-4 alliance is enough to backcap those 2 bunkers close to belinda
for a long time i have NEVER rode down to drek, im always backcapping or defending

of the ones we do lose, horde send around 5+ to smash our back cappers and recap
you dont need to turlte av to have a chance of winning, jsut a change in strat