1. #1

    PvP Power / Agility conversion?

    It's understood after the myriad of nerfs (power amount from a gem halved, reduced by 40% additionally, tons of pvp power on pvp gear) that gemming PvP power is generally poor.

    But, I'd like to know the stat weights. For instance:

    I have a chest that has a red socket, a yellow socket, and a +120 PvP Power socket bonus. Currently, I've been slotting reds with agility, oranges with agility+resil, and blues with power+resil. This is because I flag carry a decent amount and frankly enjoy the mild extra toughness.

    But, what if I wanted to gem just for damage?

    The red gem will assuredly be 160 Agility regardless. The yellow socket, however, could be a reg agility gem, or an orange gem with some agility and some of something else. This means I want to know which is better:

    > 80 Agility
    > 160 Secondary Stat (I would take mastery), +120 PvP Power.

    To see which of these is higher, I would want to know the stat weight for PvP Power. Does anyone have that?

  2. #2
    Shadowcraft has a PvP mode. Have you tried setting that at the very least to get a value for pvp power against other stats?

  3. #3
    The PvP mode tooltip claims that it adjusts minor things, but in fact, PvP mode is HIGHLY functional- and no, I didn't know that fact. It seems to account for a lot, and it puts PvP Power right there along with everything else. I don't know what other assumptions it makes- for instance, it probably still assumes a Patchwerk (and likely from behind), and as such might overvalue stats that boost autoattacks, while having no opinion about expertise having 0 value during killing spree or stuns but value well beyond the cap when fighting into the front of enemies. This is reasonable, given that there are so many PvP situations to consider and only some lend themselves to analysis.

    However, the agility / pvp power compare should be solid.

    In my current PvP gear (507), using wound poison and PVP settings, it gives me the following EP values [For Combat]:
    Agi: 2.68
    PvP Power: 1.25
    Haste: 1.65
    Mastery: 1.126
    White Hit: 0.97
    Crit: 0.91

    The other stats are similar to what we would expect out of Combat PvE stats in such gear, and speak mostly to our mainstream attack functions.

    The big deal here is this:

    If you are gemming for damage, and generally disdain the value of haste and white hit in PvP:

    RED sockets are AGILITY
    YELLOW sockets are SPEC DEPENDENT but will be AGILITY/yellowstat.
    BLUE depend on the socket bonus to a degree. Blue sockets are AGILITY/PVP POWER (but see below)

    Remember that there are only two blue sockets in the PvP set. If you are interested in beating people up in world pvp, then some other interesting things might happen (for instance, you might prefer a pvp weapon offhand and a big item level pve weapon mainhand), but I'm not considering that here, I'm more asking for item level shrunken situations.

    The first blue socket is on our gloves. It offers 60 Agility as a socket bonus.
    The second blue socket is on our pants. It offers 120 PvP Power as a socket bonus, and sits next to an easily handled red socket.

    With these numbers, we get about 160 EP out of the glove socket, and about 150 EP out of the pants socket. These values are similar- I will assume the socket bonus is worth 150 EP for simplicity.

    First, lets look at agility and pvp power. Both of these are useful in almost all situations- in other words, their value isn't really based on "we assume you autoattack a lot", as white hit and haste are.

    Full agility gems are 160. This means 429 EP.
    Agility / PvP gems are 80/80 plus bonus. This means agi(215) + pvpp(100) + bonus(150) = 465 EP.

    So, it's fair to say that if you were considering red gems in these sockets, you should instead go purple with the PvP Power.

    It is at this point that you might call bullshit on something. Notably, my sharply negative opinion on yellow gemming! With haste at 1.65, double haste from each gem, and agility at 2.7 (less than the 3.3 needed to beat haste), I should be recommending double yellows. Why don't I?

    Full haste gems are 320. This means 528 EP.
    Full mastery gems are 320. This means 360 EP.
    Full white hit gems are 320 plus bonus. This means 460 EP.
    Full PvP Power gems are 160 plus bonus. This means 350 EP.
    Purple Agi/Hit gems are 80/160 plus bonus. This means 214+155+150 = 519 EP.
    Green Haste/PvP Power gems are 160/80 plus bonus. This means 264+100+160= 524 EP.
    Green Haste/White Hit gems are 160/160 plus bonus. This means 264+155+150= 569 EP.

    My reasoning is mostly this: The damage done from white hit and haste is mostly autoattack damage, which is not a huge part of PvP. You often land on a target with a full energy bar and expend all of it and then either get the kill or get kited, and meanwhile your extra haste based energy is being destroyed. During killing spree, both of these stats are mostly dead, and similar logic applies to the kill cycle of subt.

    If you think you'll have enough uptime, by all means, go with the higher numbers there. If nothing else, explaining your haste / hit gems should let you talk numbers :P

    Anyway, I have my answer, thanks to shadowcraft!

  4. #4
    Sure the model makes assumptions. but really pvp power is going against agility more than anything since they perform a somewhat similar role. And the tool is good for at least a comparison at that level.

  5. #5
    Agreed. I point out that the modelling breaks down for haste and white hit, and to a lesser degree, mastery, but that agility and pvp power should be similar.

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