5.4 retribution state?

[Evida]

Hella bella, I have a Dk and an in-game mate also has one, making a paladin at the moment, going to play it holy cause have pretty good expirience as holy pala but...seems that ret paladin stays the best Dk support partner no matter 2s or 3s, so I'm thinking - at what state retribution paladins are at the moment? We didnt face a lot of em in 3s, so I wonder if they are bad someway? And would like to know how rets are working with DKs at thress now, met zero of them at all

[Lumineus]

According to arenamate stats, Ret is only 1800+ viable in 5v5 and RBGs. And the 5v5s are from Euro data, lot of Russians, probably cheaters.

[Deleted]

Let your paladin stay holy mate, its alot stronger / more viable.

Retri state is decent/a bit underpowered.
They have a nice burst but lack strong defensives.
This has always been the case, but in the past this was compensated (in a few patches)
with OP healing, the problem is that in MOP they gave rets more utility (sac dispel etc) but
took away their 'OP' healing, making them very weak defensively.

Playing double dps as a ret forces you to play very very defensive and pump all holy power in healing,
greatly reducing your dmg etc... and if you face a decent/strong healer+dps comp this will never be enough anyway.
At low rating/mmr you can still perform well ofc, but above 1.9 or somethng im guessing you will just
get facerolled by all the healer/war-dk-feral-mage-hunter comps out there.

Another problem with the comp is the lack of cc, the best talent setup would still be fistofjustice(ret) and strangulate glyphed for the dk,
in the past this was enough to get a kill, you would just rush in and both pops cds on the healer, then get his trinket with stun/strang
and kill him with the other, back then rets could also do insane offheals without losing that much dmg, but ye this simply doesnt work anymore.

So no, dont go ret
Stay holy and let him take the fear talent, healing you should be no problem and he can support your uptime
with freedoms and cc your offtarget with fears/hammerofjustice/blind.

P.S. Based on DRs alone it would be better to take Repentance instead of fear (8s rep into 5s hoj into 6s blind, all on a different dr)
but since you are a dk I think its better to take fear unless you can really avoid getting your dots on the cc target (rep breaks on dots, fear doesnt)

Sorry for my bad english.

[zenga]

.
Another problem with the comp is the lack of cc, ...

...

.
(8s rep into 5s hoj into 6s blind, all on a different dr)

yeah man it's totally obvious that the team lacks cc

[Veliane]

8s Rep > 6 Sec HoJ > 6 Sec Blind > 4 Sec Rep

That's 24 Sec of Awesomeness.

[Illiterate]

They are ok, but most rerolled to arms warrior or quit this patch.

[Tangra]

8s Rep > 6 Sec HoJ > 6 Sec Blind > 4 Sec Rep

That's 24 Sec of Awesomeness.

1 of the abilities you listed is almost never taken by Rets (Repent), and 2 others have a range of 8-10 yards, making them very difficult for a melee to use, especially one with good sustained mobility, and virtually zero burst mobility. In other words, this is casual theory-crafting at it's worst.

To answer the OP's question; Ret is mediocre, as always (top players like Vanguards will be more than happy to confirm that the spec is almost never anything special, fun sure, top-tier competitive... never). Rets have never been great, except for a few short periods of being overpowered, which were ended by nerfs in a matter of days after going live. The spec has some nice tools, but at the end of the day it's tactical value falls short of the standards required in serious PvP. Blizzard's vision of Ret is of a beginner spec with shiny animations and no real depth.

[Veliane]

In other words, this is casual theory-crafting at it's worst.

Are you sure about that? Cause I was talking about Holy, not Ret.

Yeah I forgive you, not your fault to be dense.

Edit:

Since Dense people is Dense ("Amg no u didnzt say it wus holeee") look the posts above and how he was being encouraged to be Holy, I'm only explaining because I know that quote was coming.

Yes, its ok, I forgive you.

[Deleted]

...
yeah man it's totally obvious that the team lacks cc

You should read before making fail comments.
About the lack of cc.. I was talking about ret/dk
When I mentioned repentance etc I was obviously talking about holydin/dk.

[Ultima]

Played Ret/MW to the #1 of that combination in our BG last season. After the Ret got his Warrior geared, he dropped the 'din.

Take from that what you will.

[Tangra]

Are you sure about that? Cause I was talking about Holy, not Ret.

Yeah I forgive you, not your fault to be dense.

Edit:

Since Dense people is Dense ("Amg no u didnzt say it wus holeee") look the posts above and how he was being encouraged to be Holy, I'm only explaining because I know that quote was coming.

Yes, its ok, I forgive you.

There is this crazy new feature called "Reply With Quote", which helps people track what you're talking about. Sorry, but every Ret thread has so much ignorance in it that it was pretty easy to believe that you were telling Rets they are overpowered.

[Vathius]

Let your paladin stay holy mate, its alot stronger / more viable.

Retri state is decent/a bit underpowered.
They have a nice burst but lack strong defensives.
This has always been the case, but in the past this was compensated (in a few patches)
with OP healing, the problem is that in MOP they gave rets more utility (sac dispel etc) but
took away their 'OP' healing, making them very weak defensively.

Playing double dps as a ret forces you to play very very defensive and pump all holy power in healing,
greatly reducing your dmg etc... and if you face a decent/strong healer+dps comp this will never be enough anyway.
At low rating/mmr you can still perform well ofc, but above 1.9 or somethng im guessing you will just
get facerolled by all the healer/war-dk-feral-mage-hunter comps out there.

Another problem with the comp is the lack of cc, the best talent setup would still be fistofjustice(ret) and strangulate glyphed for the dk,
in the past this was enough to get a kill, you would just rush in and both pops cds on the healer, then get his trinket with stun/strang
and kill him with the other, back then rets could also do insane offheals without losing that much dmg, but ye this simply doesnt work anymore.

So no, dont go ret
Stay holy and let him take the fear talent, healing you should be no problem and he can support your uptime
with freedoms and cc your offtarget with fears/hammerofjustice/blind.

P.S. Based on DRs alone it would be better to take Repentance instead of fear (8s rep into 5s hoj into 6s blind, all on a different dr)
but since you are a dk I think its better to take fear unless you can really avoid getting your dots on the cc target (rep breaks on dots, fear doesnt)

Sorry for my bad english.

Couldn't of said it any better myself. This is spot on how ret is suffering atm. Not to mention warriors are out gunning us in every possible way. Why take a ret when you can take a warrior?.

Our healing on other is still very decent however our self healing is HORRIBLE, we have no survivability aside from bubble which gets dispelled by 2 of the most OP classes in the game currently...gg

[Dookles]

Ret is good but also massively outshined by the overpowered state of warriors right now. There's simply no reason to bring any other melee to your team unless you're running TSG or something similar.

[Terahertz]

Ret is good but also massively outshined by the overpowered state of warriors right now. There's simply no reason to bring any other melee to your team unless you're running TSG or something similar.

This is actually the truth lol. No point in taking ret above warr when warr does both more sustained and more burst damage. Warr also has more mobility and heck, I'd say simply because of intervene, more utility as well l0l

[Rennegadelawlz]

I'm a 2k ret and I cam tell you, that ret is ok. But if you wanna get to 2k in 2s your gonna jave to do some try hard game play cause 2s are so hit and miss that you almost have to play better in 2s than 3s to win against counter comps. And don't listen to all this warrior bs . Warrior is the only pure dps spec I play, and he can't touch my ret and sonce the patch I have beat countless warriors on both my pally and my own warrior but warriors simple cannot kill rets.

And to whoever said rets lost their op heals is crazy because now with flash of light being our heal with selfless healee we lose zerodps, where in cata wog and tv were on the same resource. And also our self heals are better than ever.

When it comes down to it. If you wanna faceroll 2s go dbl dps if you wanna push rating heals dps outshines dbl dps nowadays

[salovia]

And to whoever said rets lost their op heals is crazy because now with flash of light being our heal with selfless healee we lose zerodps, where in cata wog and tv were on the same resource. And also our self heals are better than ever.

Sorry, you lost me here. I'm not a 2k ret, but instant FoL still heals the ret for shit. 3-hopo WoG also hits for shit. All of these things heal for even more shit with battle fatigue and MS.

Between the fears, stuns, reflects and leaps I call bullshit that you can kill an equally geared and equally skilled warrior. Sure, if you're 3v1'ing a warrior in a random bg or world PVP, or maybe if the warrior is an ebay fotm retard, but no way you are killing one in a fair fight.

[Vathius]

I'm a 2k ret and I cam tell you, that ret is ok. But if you wanna get to 2k in 2s your gonna jave to do some try hard game play cause 2s are so hit and miss that you almost have to play better in 2s than 3s to win against counter comps. And don't listen to all this warrior bs . Warrior is the only pure dps spec I play, and he can't touch my ret and sonce the patch I have beat countless warriors on both my pally and my own warrior but warriors simple cannot kill rets.

And to whoever said rets lost their op heals is crazy because now with flash of light being our heal with selfless healee we lose zerodps, where in cata wog and tv were on the same resource. And also our self heals are better than ever.

When it comes down to it. If you wanna faceroll 2s go dbl dps if you wanna push rating heals dps outshines dbl dps nowadays

In all seriousness care to shed some light on how you beat warriors? Im not trolling you or anything im deadly serious, I'd love some advice from a better ret. I get absolutely torn into pieces by warriors.

[Flaks]

In all seriousness care to shed some light on how you beat warriors? Im not trolling you or anything im deadly serious, I'd love some advice from a better ret. I get absolutely torn into pieces by warriors.

Ret is a warrior hard counter 1v1 simply because of slow immunity/removal. Switch seals to Justice and you'll peel warriors off you without even thinking about it.

[Evida]

Thanks for the replies and discussion
I realize ret is support class first of all and from my DK side I know how rets go down pretty fast once being burst face to face, so I guess the same pain comes from warriors. Let me try to remake the initial question(s).
1. How good is ret combined with an unholy dk this patch?
2. How good does hoj+strang+blind work?
3. How much useful 50% bubble and DP cd talent at 3s? And is it worth sacrificing double dispel on sac or it depends on comp?
4. How much does wog and fol self-heal while wings up and is Eternal Flame and SS worth specing considering Battle Fatigue?
5. Is Emancipate usefull at 3s and worth using a global instead of freedom? Does it have any cd?
6. And seals - Truth or Justice if you play with a stun specced Dk?
Thanks

[Vathius]

Ret is a warrior hard counter 1v1 simply because of slow immunity/removal. Switch seals to Justice and you'll peel warriors off you without even thinking about it.

They just do soooo much damage in one charge/shockwave eg. I guess my ping of 250ms doesent help matters ( Normal ping for Aus ) when trying to kite a warrior.