[Guideline] Blood DK Max DPS Builds

[Deleted]

Hey there guys!

With this thread I'd like to share some of my experience with you. I do this because I hope for some feedback on how to improve myself. This thread and everything I write is for 10man heroic only. I have no experience when it comes to 25man and if you're a blood dk in a 25man guild please please don't tell me some of these things don't work in 25man. This is not supposed to be a thread about 25man tanking. This is not a thread for new blood dks. You will need to know the class and understand the basic mechanics before some of these things I talk about make sense to you.

Before I start, something about myself. I'm Ark playing on EU Frostwolf, a blood dk in a 10man heroic guild currently having 9/14 HC down. I experiment a LOT with my gear, try very different builds but they all have one thing in common: Have as much survivability as I need but not a single point more. Tanks can do a very high amount of DPS and especially in 10man heroics the whole raid benefits a lot from this.

During this and the last content I tried various builds. I always tried to maintain two different gearsets so I could switch between bossfights if necessary with one being extremely offensive and the other one more hybrid or even all-out defensive. I'd like to share my input on those various builds and how you can max your personal DPS. And hey, maybe I overlooked something. Feedback is greatly appreciated!

Content
1) The DPS Playstyle
2) Your Gear
3) Useful Addons
4) DPS Glyphs
5) The Mastery Build
6) The Haste Build
7) The Crit Build
8) The Avoidance Build
9) Comparison



1) The DPS Playstyle

First off, don't missunderstand my intention of this thread. You still NEED to be a stable tank. No extra dps is worth the wipes if your raid has problems keeping you alive. If however that is not a problem we can continue the talk. While some of my builds are more defensive than the others all deal with one topic: How to max the tank dps. Please understand that whatever you do, your gear is heavily tailored to your very own playstyle. Vengeance is the reason our abilites can hit like a truck but for max DPS it's usually about the things listed below. Some of my builds are better in certain points than others but whatever build you prefer to play, you need to know a few tricks to max your personal tank dps.

1. Diseases

Never let them run out! Especially in a fight with multiple targets it is very important to spread your diseases. In a single target fight your diseases need to have an uptime of 99%. When you are going for max DPS, you will want to use trinkets that have a nice proc. Watch those procs! If e.g. you have 2 trinketprocs with 10k strength each and you use outbreak on a target this means your diseases will hit for 20k strength more but ONLY if you do not refresh them during the 30 seconds they are up. It's tricky but not using blood boil every time it procs can actually be a DPS increase!

2. Runemanagement

You have 4 types of runes. Frost (F), Unholy (U), Blood (B) and Death (D)
You start with 2 x B , 2 x F , 2 x U
It is important that you understand how the regeneration works. If you spend one U rune it will regenerate. If you spend both only one will regenerate and the next U rune will start regenerating once the first is up again. Same goes for F and B runes. Even when your F and U runes are converted to D runes they still regenerate in that block they were coming from! Using only Deathstrike and Runestrike can deal a nice amount of dmg but will only use F/U and D runes. If you never use your B runes you are giving up on 33% of your rune regeneration. Depending what build you play this can result in a noticable dps loss.

F and U runes should always be for your next deathstrike. Using both for applying your diseases if outbreak is on CD is okay, but there are only very few situations where you should do this and these are multitarget situations. Singletarget your outbreak ability is more than enough. There is only one more offensive ability that uses U runes: Death and Decay. Do NOT use it if you have to spend a U rune! You will loose a deathstrike and sit on that F rune forever because there is nothing useful for that single F rune. Only use DnD if it procs and doesn't cost the U rune.

B runes are very easy. Singletarget you will want to use them for a heartstrike or a blood boil if you need to refresh / spread your diseases. Multitarget use them for blood boil only. If the main target is below 35% ALWAYS use 1 for soulreaper. From all 4 runetypes, B runes are the ones that deal the least amount of dmg while the target is above 35% so they have a low priority. You shouldn't allow your B runes to cap but if it happens it's not the worst scenario as they don't result in much DPS above 35%. In terms of DPS, never use your B runes if you have all 4 other runes up. Also don't forget you have some defensive abilites like rune tap or strangulate that need a B rune so I'd recommend to keep one B rune if you think you could need one of these abilites during the next few seconds.

D runes are a bit more situational. Singletarget you will almost always use them for a deathstrike. In a multitarget situation you can use them for a blood boil. If multitarget means 2-3 targets you should just spread the diseases and continue your singletarget rotation. If there are 4+ targets you will want to use every D rune you don't need to maintain a decent bloodshield / selfheal for blood boil. Never use D runes for a heartstrike. Two of them cost the same as a deathstrike. While the 2 deal a bit less dmg than 1 deathstrike, you need 2 GCDs instead of 1. Waste of time. And while it's possible to use a D rune for soulreaper, you should really try to use B runes for that.

3. Runic Power

It's very easy to say what to do with it. Use runestrike as often as possible. The trick is to understand how to maximize your RP generation. As a blood DK, you generate RP from one of the following sources:
A. 10 RP for every rune spent on an offensive ability
B. 10 RP from a successfull melee autoattack (Scent of Blood procc)
C. 10 RP from parrying or dodging an attack (Scent of Blood procc)
D. 10 RP from horn of winter (20 RP / 40sec CD if you use the glyph)
E. 15 RP from the blood elf racial (2min CD)
F. 25 RP from empower rune weapon (5min CD)
G. 30 RP from army of the dead due to 3 runes spent on an offensive ability (10min CD)
H. XXX RP from AMS (1 RP per 1k of dmg it managed to soak)

Before you pull you will always want to generate some RP. Using horn + army before you pull allows you to start the fight with 40 RP (50 if you glyphed horn) + 15 RP if you have the blood elf racial. Let's assume you are the tank that starts. You generate 40 RP before you pull. Most likely you are going to parry the first attack giving you 10 RP and whatever ability you used gives you another 10 RP. Right after your first ability you already have 60 RP or 2 runestrikes without doing much.

And my beloved AMS ability. In my opinion this is the strongest CD a DK has, both in terms of DPS and survivability. ALWAYS watch for abilities that deal magical damage. Not only are you able to soak the damage, it will also generate you a significant amount of RP. Most of the times this will cap your RP so try to use every RP you have before using AMS. If the magic damage continues for a few seconds you should spam runestrike. You will get the RP back instantly. Don't forget Patch 5.4 added a very useful new glyph: Regenerative Magic. It's a must-have for max DPS as it reduces the CD you have on your AMS. Not everything that deals magic dmg also deals enough to break it, remember this! Therefore this glyph will allow you to use AMS more often.

4. Dancing Rune Weapon

This little extra can do quite a lot of DPS if you use it correctly. Since it copies your attacks you are able to deal a nice amount of extra dmg. If used on the pull and you apply your diseases a second later you can see that you suddenly have every disease on the boss twice! The copied diseases hit for a lot less but still it's an effective way of increasing your overall DPS. If you already have the 4pc setbonus you shouldn't use it right at the pull but instead a few abilities later so you don't waste the 4 extra death runes. The moment this CD really shines is in a multitarget fight with 4+ targets. Target an add, pop your DRW, apply diseases and spread them, then start spamming blood boil. During this phase DRW increases your DPS a lot and it also helps in building up enough threat to tank all those adds. NEVER use the DRW glyph. While it helps you in applying more threat this is a dps loss and you shouldn't rely on the glyph to help you building enough threat. You really don't need it.

Please note that even while DRW copies your attacks, it does not copy you. Its blood boils won't spread any diseases since roiling blood is a talent DRW doesn't know. Similar problem with soul reaper: While DRW does copy the initial spell dmg it does not copy that hart hitting shadow dmg we love after the debuff is gone on your target.

5. Dark Simulacrum

This is an ability most people completely forget about. As a DK you can spellsteal quite a lot of abilities and sometimes they add a HUGE amount of DPS. It costs 20 RP which is a very fair price if you know what to steal. Small example: During the Norushen encounter you can spellsteal the cast you should interrupt from the add during the test of confidence phase. Use AMS to soak the dmg, don't interrupt it so dark simulacrum can steal it and you will have 100 RP + the spellstolen ability that deals about 20% of the adds life as dmg. For a boss like Dark Shamans you should even use the glyph that reduces the CD by 50% as you can deal a few millions of extra dmg just by using this ability on CD to spellsteal Kardis' Froststorm Bolt.

The guys over at Elitistjerks have created a very useful spreedsheat for this ability, you should really check it out:
forums.elitistjerks.com/index.php?showtopic=132005

6. Soul Reaper

This is also an ability blood DKs tend to forget about. You have a strong execute! If used correctly it can do up to 15% of your overall DPS and crit for something between 700k and over 1mil dmg. Always use it if the target is below 35%. In a multitarget fight, don't forget you also get a 50% haste buff if the target dies. Very useful in a fight like Galakras where you have lots of adds that die allowing you to regenerate your runes a lot faster.

7. Army of the Dead

It's the most effective damage CD that we have: Our Army. The 10min CD means that in most fights we can only use it once but still, we can dish out a lot of dmg thanks to our minions. Concerning the optimal time, it is important to realize how the army works. They do not store your attack power and buffs during the channel time but instead refresh their power all the time. If you have vengeance and your trinkets up your minions will deal a lot more damage. However, the moment your buffs or vengeance runs out your minions will deal significantly less damage. To maximize it you should use the CD in advance when you know all your important buffs will be up during the lifetime of your army. In many situations this means to use army right before the pull. You have your pre-pot, vengeance, riposte, trinkets, everything that buffs your dps. And your army will use all these buffs. If you are not the tank who starts you should wait until you get the boss. Nothing empowers your army more than pure vengeance. The only exception to this if your raid uses bloodlust at pull. If they do use BL, pop army no matter if you are the first tank or second. Assuming the other tank isn't a LOT stronger in terms of dps, you could ask him nicely if it would be okay if you could start. Your army will thank you. ;-)



2) Your Gear

Now it's time for the builds. Please remember that even though I tested them all, they don't work the same for everyone. Sometimes you don't get the necessary gear, sometimes your raidcomp needs you to be more defensive. While I obviously try to max my DPS, I try not to do it at the cost of unnecessary wipes. Nothing is more frustrating than realizing after 20 wipes that you're not stable enough and need to change your build.

What makes a build efficient is stacking stats. For this you need the necessary gear. You won't see the benefits of a haste build if you have dodge or parry on almost every item you own. This is especially important for your trinkets. The current content doesn't offer a lot of DPS trinkets you can use as a blood dk so if you still have a trinket from Ji-Kun HC or Horridon HC or Primordius HC you should really use them. If you never did, maybe this is the time to revisit throne of thunder and try to grab one of these trinkets as they can have a HUGE impact on your tank dps. Yes they got nerfed hard but they are still a viable option. A trinket that gives you 3k stamina and reduces AoE dmg does not help your dmg output. If you can survive without those 3k stamina, use a better trinket! If you don't have one, you should try to get one. Nothing limits your tank DPS more than having the wrong gear.

There are also two more items you shouldn't forget about: The legendary meta gem and cloak. Both deal a nice amount of dmg and if you are stable enough to survive the boss, you should switch to these items. While I find the tank meta gem viable in some situations the legendary tank cloak seems useless to me. As a blood dk you already got purgatory to save you if you should screw up. Since the legendary tank cloak only saves you if the incoming dmg does not exceed your total life you also can't experiment with new tactics like solo tanking Immerseus HC. If your lifepool is 1mil and the incoming dmg deals 5mil, the legendary tank cloak will only save you for your lifepool, meaning 1mil. Since there are still 4mil left, you will die.



3) Useful Addons

There are a few things you should keep in mind DPS wise. In my oppinion you can't max your DPS using the standart interface. You NEED some addons. Unfortunately I'm not allowed to post links on this forum so you will need to look the names up yourself on a website like curse.com

1. Rune Display

Probably one of the most important addons you need something to better display your runes. I personally use DK ONE for this as it also shows me my RP, my stacks on boneshield, uptime of my diseases on the current target and more. If you see your runes and how they regenerate you can get a way better feeling for them and when they are ready. Don't look on the CD of your abilities. Look at your runes and decide what to do based on your runes, not the CD of a specific ability!

2. Tracker for blood shield / AMS

There is a very nice little addon called Blood Shield Tracker that I highly recommend. It can show you how much your next deathstrike will heal, how much life your blood shield currently has and most important, how much life your AMS currently has. You get a way better feeling for soaking abilities with AMS if you can see the actual values.

3. Weakauras

You need an addon that can show you when your trinkets procc. I use Weakauras for this job and it works perfectly. Not only this, you can use it to show you any buff you'd like to see be it the 2pc tank setbonus buff or if your riposte is up. I also use it to tell me the exact value of vengeance I currently have. When I see I don't have much vengeance I use my abilities different, trying to save some runes for the moment when I get the vengeance back.

The rest is up to you. Things like OmniCC to show you the CD of your abilities or Omen Treat Meter are nice to have, but these 3 addons mentioned above are in my opinion quite important when it comes to maxing your DPS.



4) DPS Glyphs

With Patch 5.4 came a few new glyphs. Some of them are quite useful and you should take a look at them. Here are the ones I think are the best in terms of DPS. Please don't forget that some of them are situational and while they can be very useful for a certain boss, they can also be completely useless for another boss. Don't forget to switch them in between bossfights!

1. Glyph Regenerative Magic

The strongest of all new glyphs it reduces the CD of your AMS based on the amount of absorb left. You will want to use AMS as often as possible but not every ability that you soak will hit hard enough to crush your AMS leaving you with a certain amount of absorption. This amount will result in a CD reduction up to 50%. AMS has a base CD of 45sec. It's up for 5 sek so you are left with a 40sec CD. If your AMS only soaked for half of its max absorption the remaining 40sec CD will be reduced by 25% meaning 10 seconds. Don't underestimate this!


2. Glyph Festering Blood

Your blood boil deals 50% additional damage if the target hit has at least one of your diseases on him. Using this glyph blood boil will ALWAYS deal the additional 50% damage, no matter if there are diseases on the target or not. This can be very helpful in multitarget fights like Galakras where you have to build up as much threat as possible in the least amount of time. And of course it is a DPS increase since you ALWAYS need the first blood boil to spread your diseases.


3. Glyph of the Loud Horn

Your Horn of Winter now generates an additional 10 Runic Power, but the cooldown is increased by 100%. This will grant you 10 additional RP for your pull. You can generate the same amount of RP in half the amount of GCDs spent, thus allowing you to use your GCDs for other things. It's not exactly a big DPS increase but it's better than nothing. Leave it away if you need the slot for other important glyphs.


4. Glyph Dark Simulacrum

Even though it's not a new glyph I once again want to point out how important this ability can be for certain fights. If e.g. you're tanking Dark Shamans you really want this glyph and to use the ability on CD to spellsteal the frostbolt. Don't forget it's very situational, not every encounter has something to spellsteal in it!





5) The Mastery Build

Mastery (180% - 230%)> Hit/EXP 7.5% > Haste > Crit = Dodge/Parry

In my opinion this is the most defensive build and not necessary for most encounters. Very stable if you have a lot of physical dmg incoming like e.g. Nazgrim HC. Take as much mastery as you feel mandatory. You should stop somewhere around 180 - 230% unbuffed. The more you have the tankier you are but it gives you nothing in terms of DPS. For that I used haste in this build, usually somewhere around 8-10k. Since you can't stack dodge/parry very high you benefit more from haste as your third priority.

DPS Check:
- Lowest Singletarget DPS of all builds
- Lowest Multitarget DPS (2-4 Targets) of all builds
- Decent Bomb DPS (4+ Targets)
- Runes regenerate a bit faster due to higher priority for haste
- Gives up a lot of DPS in exchange for being the most stable build for incoming physical dmg

Gear Check:
Try to grab gear with Mastery and / or Haste. Items with Mastery/Crit or Haste/Crit are fine as well. Crit/Exp or Crit/Hit is okay as well. Try to avoid dodge/parry as this build does not rely on riposte. If you really have to choose between crit and dodge/parry you should look at the amount of stats. 1k crit is better than 1k dodge/parry. Riposte is really strong if you stack dodge/parry but if you only have a bit on your gear, you won't benefit much from it. Mastery is the reason you survive with this build, not dodge/parry!

Gems Check:
320 Mastery in every socket till you have the amount you feel comfortable with. Since this is a rather defensive build you can consider getting those stamina socketboni by using mastery/stamina green or parry/mastery orange gems. Once you reach the mastery value you want you should gem for haste.



6) The Haste Build

Haste > Hit/EXP 7.5% > Crit > Mastery = Dodge/Parry

During throne of thunder this was one of the most effective builds. Now that trinkets don't scale with your haste anymore it lost a significant amount of dmg but I find it still has its uses. Haste means that your runes regenerate a lot faster. I used values ranging between 15k haste / 11k crit / 8k mastery up to 20k haste / 8k crit / 6k mastery. It allowed me to bomb for 260k DPS during protectors HC or singletarget for 205k DPS during Juggernaut HC (with no boss DPS during both transitions). From what I experienced up to now, it has the highest singletarget burst of all builds so if you need to quickly burn down an add like e.g. the add you need to tank during siegecrafter blackfuse this build will definitely help you. The negative aspect is that runes regenerate so quickly and you build RP so fast you will need some training or otherwise you will cap your runes / RP way to often resulting in a significant DPS loss.

Note that your diseases do NOT profit from haste. This build does not help you much in a multitarget fight with 2-4 targets. You regenerate runes extremely fast meaning you can bomb A LOT but that is most effective if you have 4+ targets.

If you're having trouble building enough threat in a multitarget fight with your current gear this build will help you a lot! Due to the fast rune regeneration you can spam blood boil extremely often. Throw in the Festering Blood Glyph and you can build a lot of threat even if you don't have the time to get your diseases up on all those adds during the first few seconds.

DPS Check:
- High Singletarget DPS
- Decent Multitarget DPS (2-4 Targets)
- Very High Bomb DPS (4+ Targets)

- Runes regenerate so fast, if you're not used to this you will most likely cap them or your RP
- Very high amount of direct selfheal making it quite stable in a fight with high amounts of magical dmg
- You will create a lot more blood worms thus helping you and the melees around you (hello malkorok! )
- Very nice synergy with the tank 2pc setbonus creating a very high uptime of your boneshield throughout the bossfight
- Due to the high rune regeneration it is still a stable build in terms of survivability
- Lacks the raw power of mastery in a pure physical dmg fight with heavy tankdmg like Nazgrim HC

Gear Check:
You'll need gear with haste on it. Everything about this build is tailored to having as many runes as possible during the fight and to regenerate them as fast as possible. Once you reach a value you feel is fast enough you will need to further improve the dmg. Usually haste gear automaticly comes with a decent amount of crit so stacking dodge/parry is once again not really an option. If however you can grab the gear to have 15k haste and 15k dodge/parry it would make for an interesting combination where dodge/parry definitely outweighs crit. Please don't forget that you will have a very small amount of mastery on your gear. If you feel you're not stable enough go Haste > Hit/EXP 7.5% > Mastery > Crit = Dodge/Parry and try to grab the gear for this.

Gems Check:
320 Haste is the way to go. Don't go for strength as a socketbonus. You loose to much haste when trying to get the bonus. Since vengeance gives you a lot of AP you're better off focusing on haste than strength. If you really want a socketbonus you could use haste/hit greens or strength/haste oranges but I don't recommend it.

Important:
Haste looses quite a bit of value if you have the tank 4pc setbonus. If you already own it I'd recommend to go for a lower haste value and focus more on crit making those runes hit harder. It's still important to regenerate your runes quickly but because you can get 4 D runes every 1.5 minutes for free you shouldn't stack haste to extreme values like 18k+



7) The Crit Build

Crit > Hit/EXP 7.5% > Haste > Mastery > Dodge/Parry

While being an extremely powerful build during throne of thunder it lost a lot of value now with the addition of riposte. Stacking crit still is more effective than stacking dodge/parry if we only talk about DPS. The biggest problem is that crit gives you absolutely nothing in terms of survivability therefore making this build in my opinion useless in this current tier.

DPS Check:
- High Singletarget DPS
- Highest Multitarget DPS (2-4 Targets) of all builds
- Decent Bomb DPS (4+ Targets)

- Off all builds this one gives up the most amount of survivability

If anyone is actually using this build in SoO HC it would love to see the logs and compare it to those other builds but since the bosses hit a lot harder than what we tanks experienced during throne of thunder I just can't imagine this build to still be viable.



8) The Avoidance Build

Without the tank 4pc bonus:
Parry > Hit/EXP 7.5% > Dodge > Haste > Crit > Mastery

With the tank 4pc bonus:
Parry > Hit/EXP 7.5% > Dodge > Crit > Haste > Mastery

Riposte: When you dodge or parry any attack, you gain 75% of your Parry and Dodge as additional Critical Strike for 20 sec.

The whole build is tailored around this single passive ability. Parry is a lot stronger than dodge so you really shouldn't focus too much on it. Right now I'm using values of 15k parry and 5k dodge giving me 20k in total and a 15k critbuff for 20 seconds if riposte is up. Due to my gear having a bit crit on it as well I have values of up to 45% crit with riposte. That is a LOT. All of your abilites will crit a lot more often resulting in a very high increase of your DPS. The reason I value haste over crit and mastery is to regenerate runes a bit faster. When you have the tank 4pc setbonus you shouldn't have any problems with rune regeneration meaning crit will have a higher impact on your DPS than Haste. Riposte will allow for a high amount of crit but once you reach a certain point of crit you should focus on getting more abilites out rather than increasing your chance to crit. Critical strike only allows your ability to deal double damage. Not a single point more. Therefore trying to get crit as high as possible isn't effective once you reach a certain value. For me that value is around 45 - 50% crit with the help of riposte.

Since Riposte stays for 20 seconds you should watch your other tank. Don't forget that even when he taunts the boss you still have riposte + vengeance on you. This can create a very high amount of threat. Since the other tank just got his vengeance it can become quite easy for you to overaggro him and get the boss back if your other tank is not able to deal dmg as well. On the other side this build gets weak if you don't have a high uptime on the boss. You NEED something that you can parry/dodge or this whole build won't deal dmg. It's not very bursty and without vengeance/riposte you deal way less dmg compared to a haste build but if you can manage to keep riposte up for 80%+ of a bossfight you will see a significant increase in your overall dps.

One last nice thing about this build is how undervalued parry was until Riposte was added now. Every time you parry an attack you get 10 RP, you get a stack of scent of blood and in addition the time remaining before your next auto attack is reduced. More melee hits mean more stacks on scent of blood resulting in even more RP. This parryHaste concept extremely helps the build maintain a certain rune / RP regeneration.

Important:
Riposte only profits from parry/dodge you have on your gear! If you use the swordshattering rune on your weapon the 4% parry do NOT count towards riposte. Same as the 20% you get from your runeweapon. What works are dodge/parry trinkets like the shadopan iLvL 522 trinket or the timeless isle 496/535 trinket.

DPS Check:
- High Singletarget DPS
- Highest Multitarget DPS (2-4 Targets) of all builds excluding the crit build
- Decent Bomb DPS (4+ Targets)
- Highest Bomb DPS (4+ Targets) if you have the tank 4pc setbonus and time it correctly

- You give up a lot of control for that extra DPS
- No Mastery means crappy bloodshields
- No Haste means a lot less selfheal
- Your diseases profit extremely from riposte making it the most efficient build in a multitarget fight with 2-4 targets
- Decent amount of RP thanks to parryHaste

Gear Check:
Parry is what you want. Dodge is nice but mainly used for riposte and nowhere as effective as parry due to diminishing returns. This build does not rely on mastery so if possible and assuming you feel comfortable enough with it you should avoid it as much as possible. If you go for the 4pc setbonus you will get enough mastery on your gear anyways. Better try to get a few items with haste or crit as long as you don't neglect parry/dodge for it.

Gems Check:
320 Parry! Strength is an acceptable socketbonus as it also gives you parry so if you want you can use parry/dodge oranges (you loose nothing concerning riposte with this gem!) or parry/hit violet gems. Stamina is okay as well. On most items you loose too much stats for riposte if you go for haste or crit. Don't go for mastery.



9) Conclusion

It really depends on your gear and what you can get which build deals the max amount of DPS. If you have the luxury to maintain two gearsets I'd recommend you to try different builds on different bosses and see for yourself what suits a specific boss best. The Mastery build is for obvious reasons not the strongest so if you want max DPS you will have to decide between a haste build or an avoidance build. But this doesn't work for every boss so don't overdo it. From what I have seen until now, avoidance wins in most situations but lets take a deeper look.

Pure Singletarget

If fighting a boss like Norushen HC or Juggernaut HC it's really about the uptime of riposte you can generate and what you can manage to do with it. Riposte without vengeance gives you nothing. If you time your abilities right and e.g. refresh your diseases in the last second before both riposte and vengeance run out you can get a significant high amount of overall dmg. Haste on the other side is more bursty and just needs vengeance and even without it can deal a nice amount of dmg. If you have to make a quick targetswap and burn down an add as fast as possible haste will help you a lot. In my opinion they both are strong in a pure singletarget fight and only if you can manage riposte perfectly the avoidance build has the capability to deal more dmg.

Multitarget with 2-4 Targets

Your diseases hit a LOT harder with riposte and vengeance. Since you don't have enough targets to spam blood boil all the time you will spread your diseases but continue a single target rotation on your main target. In this situation like e.g. Protectors HC or Spoils HC the avoidance build clearly wins over haste usually dealing something between 50k to 100k more DPS.

Multitarget with 4+ Targets

If you don't have the 4pc setbonus the haste build has a very strong bomb potentional since you can spam blood boild way more often than in the avoidance build making both builds deal a similar amount of damage. Once you get the 4pc setbonus avoidance will do more damage if you bomb the group, then pop your runeweapon for those 4 (8 if you count the copies from your runeweapon) extra blood boils.



As with everything I have written these are my opinions and purely from a 10man heroic point of view. Whatever I wrote I can prove with logs so don't hesitate to ask anything if you're unsure why I wrote something in particular. I'm especially curious about feedback from other 10man HC blood dks and what they think about my builds. If you need help with your personal DPS I can try to help you as well but please don't forget that I wrote this whole Guide as a guideline, not something you MUST follow. For us tanks it's not as easy as for a DD since we can't focus purely on dps. We also have to keep a certain amount of survivability that not only depends on ourselves, but also on our healers. Whatever I tried with my gear was possible due to my raidcomp and does not automaticly work for everyone out there. Please keep this in mind!

[Cryopathy]

Looks fairly decent after a first skim, I'll read it more in-depth later but I wanted to correct a couple things:

1) You are misunderstanding how RP generation and especially Scent of Blood function. You gain 10 RP per rune spent on any successful offensive ability. This is why you gain 10 RP from any single-rune ability, 20 RP from Death Strike, and 30 RP from Army of the Dead. This is also why you don't gain any RP when you use a Crimson Scourge proc--because you do not actually spend a rune. Scent of Blood gives you 10 RP any time you dodge or parry an attack, as you mentioned. It also gives you 10 RP when you successfully land a melee autoattack. The 20 RP you get from Death Strike is from spending two runes, not from Scent of Blood. Not really your fault; the tooltip is poorly written. Also, you gain 25 RP when you use Empower Rune Weapon. Lastly, you gain 1 RP per 1000 damage absorbed from AMS if you want to put in a more exact value.

2) Hit and expertise to 7.5% is a greater DPS increase than any other stat for any build.

3) You'll get more DPS out of using Army to coincide with trinket procs, potions, bloodlust, high vengeance, etc. That means it's not always best to use it at the start of a pull, even if you're the first one to tank (Vengeance takes time to ramp up and the very beginning of the fight is rarely when you'll peak on Vengeance). The only time I would use Army pre-pull is if it's a fight that will last longer than 10m (allowing you to use it twice) or if it is a fight where your raid casts bloodlust on the pull.

4) One other thing for now regarding double diseases with Dancing Rune Weapon. You can make the second set of diseases last the entire 30 sec duration if you use Pestilence while Dancing Rune Weapon is still active. Blood Boil (even with Roiling Blood) will not work for this, because Dancing Rune Weapon has hardcoded limitations on what spells it can copy. You can spread double diseases to an entire pack with Pestilence as well, but only if you are lucky enough to get both sets of diseases on the same target.

[Deleted]

Hey Cryo!

1) Yeah I forgot to mention the autoattacks, they generate RP as well. But I could have sworn that it's the SoB stack that generates the extra 10 RP when I use a deathstrike, not the 2nd rune I needed for it. Hm... Will test it later and correct it.^^

2) Hit and Exp definitely need to be at 7.5% but the reason I placed them on 2nd highest priority is because people shouldn't worry too much about the exact value. There is no problem with your DPS if you are 100 stats above or below the cap. And sometimes you can get more of the mainstat if you don't reforge for the exact caps accepting a little difference. And I don't mind having the risk of failing my attacks once every 1000 attacks.

3) Yeah I should have mentioned army, completely forgot about it. By the way, if you have 2 times bloodlust in your raidcomp you can request the second one later on the pull to maximize pet dmg.

4) Never really tried that, most of the times I forget about the copied diseases once applied because roiling blood doesn't work on them but I'll give that pestilence approach a try next time I raid. One other thing I should've mentioned: It's useless to try to double execute with DRW as it only copies the initial dmg of soul reaper, not the hard hitting shadow dmg after the debuff runs out.

[Raegwyn]

pretty okay guide, even though i dont agree to all points.

just one thing.
below your crit build you wrote

- Off all builds this one gives up the most amount of survivability

i guess thats just a typo or smt

[keqe]

pretty okay guide, even though i dont agree to all points.

just one thing.
below your crit build you wrote

i guess thats just a typo or smt

Give up= You give something=you lose something

[Tojara]

Skeers is an amazing trinket for tanking if you watch the proc. Yes watching strength procs from trinkets/runeforge is useful for getting big diseases, but typically it's more important to watch your vengeance more than anything else.

With skeers it's basically possible to have nearly 100% crit diseases for 30 seconds, and under high vengeance it's a lot of damage.

[Barael]

The brain dead AI on DRW is frustrating as hell; has anyone had any luck forcing it to attack your current target?

[Deleted]

the ideal situation for you would be to use army while you have a high amount of vengeance + trinketproccs + strength pot.

Minions don't "store" stats or buffs like attack power or haste increase in the moment they are rised. What is true for e.g. diseases isn't true for risen allys. Frost fever does ticking damage, your vengeance goes higher but frost fever won't do more damage as long it is not renewed, but dks minions, however, will increase or decrease their damage if their masters attack power due to whatever rises or falls.

So the optimal time to rise army is not when all buffs (trinket proccs e.g.) are up on you already, but it's when they will be up for the their maximum time even if the army is already there. This should be true for all minions (ghul, army minion, blood worm).

[rhapso]

Don't make a "Haste Build" happen. With AMS soaking and SoB granting RP on Dodge/Parry, you are GCD locked as low as with 2-3k Haste, thus Crit is by far the better "DPS Build", gimping your survivability by the same amount. Haste is dead. Don't try to bring it back.

[Jackielope]

Haste is dead because of AMS and SoB on avoids. However, when it comes to avoids parry double-dips with Scent of Blood. As this thread from back in the day shows, each parry is an extra .24 attack. With a 3.6 speed weapon SoB has a 100% proc chance since it has 16.66_ PPM. In short, every time you parry it's worth 10 + 2.4 RP, although that's effectively reduced down to 2.22 if you're not running parry cap on expertise (which you shouldn't because it matters so little for other DPS abilities).

[Ranico]

If you want to do max DPS, assuming you have relatively decent access to decent gear, Dodge/Parry/Riposte is really the most viable build right now.

But frankly, Haste/Crit/DP is all missing the point. The single and sole most important point to doing decent DPS is maximize your vengeance. No vengeance = no DPS, doesn't matter what you're using.

2-3 stack taunting a boss with your tank partner and barely breaking your blood shield but wondering why your DPS is low? You're doing it wrong.

Most encounters are pretty easy/trivial and with a DP build if you are having trouble staying over 50% you're doing something wrong.

Find ways to take advantage of boss debuffs and vengeance to maximize the amount of time you spend at high vengeance. (Except on encounters which very strongly discourage and prohibit such behavior, ie Nazgrim).

You want to see some crazy ass numbers? Solo tank Garrosh, Thok, Malakras, Iron Jugg etc. Then you'll see what vengeance can really do!

TLR-

Parry/Dodge + Vengeance = Win.

For what its worth my own log history is here: http://www.raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/elune/ranico/ yes by my own admission I have from time to time abused encounter mechanics or disregarded them, just to see what our class is capable of.

[Deleted]

Updated the guide. Corrected a few things and some spelling mistakes.

Don't make a "Haste Build" happen. With AMS soaking and SoB granting RP on Dodge/Parry, you are GCD locked as low as with 2-3k Haste, thus Crit is by far the better "DPS Build", gimping your survivability by the same amount. Haste is dead. Don't try to bring it back.

This is not true. In terms of survivability, haste gives you a LOT more compared to crit. The reason is simple, crit gives you absolutely NOTHING while haste regenerates all your runes a lot faster. Use around 14k haste and every rune regenerates 2 seconds faster. That means a lot concerning your survivability.

And I wouldn't agree on the "haste is dead" point. Riposte is extremely strong and only due to not having the correct gear I couldn't experiment with haste anymore. Some food for thought though: Haste only needs vengeance and even deals a nice though not extremely high amount of damage without it. Avoidance needs vengeance AND riposte. One of them runs out and your DPS is far more crippled compared to a haste build. If you don't have vengeance and no riposte, the haste build will deal a lot more damage compared to the avoidance build.

Some more food for thought:

Iron Juggernaut 10m HC - 2 T / 4 H / 4 DDs - No Boss DPS during the 2nd phase due to moving away from him

206k DPS using a 548 Haste build that had something like 20k haste / 8k crit / 7k mastery
worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-iv4t34qnpehmszzl/dashboard/?s=12774&e=13194

221k DPS using a 556 Riposte build with something like 15k parry / 4k dodge and 4k crit / 2k haste / xy mastery (can't remember)
worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-s71im8sx968icsi4/dashboard/?s=607&e=1045

That's only 15k DPS more and the avoidance gear also had quite a few more itemlevels. Trinkets and weapon remained the same for both kills.

But frankly, Haste/Crit/DP is all missing the point. The single and sole most important point to doing decent DPS is maximize your vengeance. No vengeance = no DPS, doesn't matter what you're using.

Actually, that is not quite correct. Just because you have vengeance doesn't mean you will deal a lot of damage. More important is not gaining vengeance, but knowing how to USE vengeance. Sure you can try to abuse mechanics, take more tankdebuffs, solotank or whatever but that is not what I had in mind when I wrote this guide. It's about making the most out of the given situation. And in a normal raidsituation you don't take more stacks of a tankdebuff than you should. And besides, don't completely neglect your dps just because you have no vengeance. I could go to a mob right now using my 565 gear and dps it down with something around 120k+ dps even though I have no vengeance. Sure this is not a lot but it is still a lot more than ZERO.

[Deleted]

Personally I use (8) Avoidance Way for some time already and I must say I'm really happy with it. On our last Garrosh 10N attempt I was top dps. Even if I wasn't solo-tankin. Hope more peeps will read this thread because it contains many useful tips

[onemanaleft]

15k more dps with a ton more survivability for more vengeance

[Ikrekot]

In terms of dps crit>avoidance>haste>mastery
In terms of surv mastery>avoidance>haste>crit

Why someone will play haste build when they could use for surv and dps avoidance build or for max surv use mastery?

[Deleted]

Why someone will play haste build when they could use for surv and dps avoidance build or for max surv use mastery?

Because I very much enjoy to experiment. And a simulator for tank dps - at least as far as I know - does not exist. So how can I be absolutely sure avoidance wins in every possible situation? Just because the majority of players use a certain build does not automaticly mean it is the best. And since I used it as my main gearset until I had 6 heroics down I saw that it wasn't completely useless. Survivability was very similar to an avoidance build, if not even better in certain situations. Concerning DPS avoidance seems to win. I myself am a pure avoidance tank right now, but that is also because no haste loot dropped for me while my avoidance gearset got the heroic items. I'd love to test a 565+ haste build. Unfortunately I can't :-(

[Ikrekot]

I tested both builds. I play avoidance on ptr. I was telling avoidance is way to go long time ago (check my posts). I don't play DK first time. On higher ilvl you won't do more dps in haste lvl because you are gcd locked. 15-20% haste then go full crit, because haste will give less and less damage. Crit will give always more dps.

[Eklypto]

I don't see how haste can be viable at all anymore, with high levels of avoidance + SoB+AMS, I already run into situations where I am capped on RP with no way to dump it quick enough, haste would just make this worse.

[rhapso]

8) The Avoidance Build

- You give up a lot of control for that extra DPS
- No Mastery means crappy bloodshields
- No Haste means a lot less selfheal

I don't see what control you give up, talking about challenging tank dmg taken in current heroics without overgearing it substantially, you will be timing your Death Strikes which usually Cap my Bloodshield within 1-2 DS when going for a Mastery build. It is quite similar with an avoidance build:

The following lines are out of my last Nazgrim HC [10man Heroic] kill (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-gkgag9yb8inorlx5/), with ~120% mastery.

[22:35:12.630] Rhápsody's Blood Shield fades from Rhápsody (Remaining: 0)
[22:35:16.026] Rhápsody gains Blood Shield from Rhápsody (Remaining: 381333)
[22:35:20.277] Rhápsody's Blood Shield fades from Rhápsody (Remaining: 0)
[22:35:21.273] Rhápsody gains Blood Shield from Rhápsody (Remaining: 311049)
[22:35:23.498] Rhápsody's Blood Shield fades from Rhápsody (Remaining: 0)
[22:35:25.292] Rhápsody gains Blood Shield from Rhápsody (Remaining: 436563)
[22:35:29.356] Rhápsody's Blood Shield is refreshed by Rhápsody (Remaining: 647869)
[22:35:32.718] Rhápsody's Blood Shield fades from Rhápsody (Remaining: 0)
[22:35:34.426] Rhápsody gains Blood Shield from Rhápsody (Remaining: 163305)
[22:35:35.544] Rhápsody's Blood Shield fades from Rhápsody (Remaining: 0)
[22:35:38.540] Rhápsody gains Blood Shield from Rhápsody (Remaining: 443221)
[22:35:41.594] Rhápsody's Blood Shield fades from Rhápsody (Remaining: 0)
[22:35:49.445] Rhápsody gains Blood Shield from Rhápsody (Remaining: 207077)

As you can see, a mastery build would have capped my Blood Shield in most of these situations, while the avoidance build gave me a considerable decrease in damage taken while also increasing my dps by a whole lot and I don't consider them "crappy bloodshields".
There are also a lot of moments in SoO HCs where blood shields don't really help you, because the damage is purely magical (Juggernaut, Shamans (caster), Blackfuse, just to give you an idea) or having huge amounts of vengeance makes Death Siphon more viable (Solo tanking Malkorok HC p2).

And talking about selfhealing, I am between healing between 50 and 75% of my damage taken by myself, especially Mantid side of Spoils HC is funny: My healer ignores me completely :S
Before you bring the argument, I am focusing completely on surviving... Surviving is of course the number one goal, but after that I am a damage whore as every other tank, just look at WoL ranks (my hc wf weapon dropped this id, all ranks before that were with a 548 garrosh-weapon).

[onemanaleft]

on single target tanking i need some haste, maybe 10-15% but on 2+ target tanking i can gcd cap at 0 haste (well actualy i have like 3% from polearm)