Who would you side with: Illidan or Turalyon?

[Barnabas]

Not too sure. Depends on what kind of Illidan we would be getting. If its the one from the books/WC3 then im all for it, but not the one from TBC. Also, we have no idea what kind of a person Turalyon is nowadays, he surely has changed alot after so many years of fighting the Legion.

If he is brought back he would be a character that is seeking redemption.

[Jawless Jones]

everything in the RPG books are non-canon, blizzard has said this

and just because theres a picture of something doesnt mean its suddenly canon, if that were true then anything could be considered canon

[Zarc]

did you even read what you just said? 30 years isnt a long time. thats not even one generation.

if aliens came and raped and killed thousands of human beings and we managed to fight them back and lock them up but then they somehow got out and said "no way man were cool just let us have africa man" we wouldnt just let the aliens go.

the horde should be happy the alliance even contemplates working with them because again, less than a generation ago THEY RAPED AND KILLED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE

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varian as a young child witnessed an orc rip out his fathers heart RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM. you just dont forget shit like that.

Uhm.. yes? Exactly. What you just said is among those things I also said. You said nothing to contradict me, you do realize that?

Most of the Alliance folks will think the way you do, because the new good Horde is a rather new thing and changing people's mindset tend to take a lot of time.

Take South Africa, whites colonialists invaded and took control, oppressing the Black population and introducing what became known as apartheid. Not unlike how the Horde invaded Azeroth and doing shit to the Alliance. The apartheid regime fell, so did the old Horde. The Alliance has an ignorant and racist leadership so they decided to seek conflict with the new Horde. South Africa had a wise and enlightened first democratically elected President who chose to reach out and seek peace with the new White community, where most people would've sought vengeance. South Africa was lucky in that one such wise person ended up at the top of the hierarchy, the Alliance was not. But these people that are ahead of their time, more quickly can reassess their opinion based on an ever-changing world, they exist everywhere. And with the fate of the Alliance in the hands of an ignorant leadership, some of these people will inevitably go neutral.

[Immitis]

Uhm.. yes? Exactly. What you just said is among those things I also said. You said nothing to contradict me, you do realize that?

Most of the Alliance folks will think the way you do, because the new good Horde is a rather new thing and changing people's mindset tend to take a lot of time.

Take South Africa, whites colonialists invaded and took control, oppressing the Black population and introducing what became known as apartheid. Not unlike how the Horde invaded Azeroth and doing shit to the Alliance. The apartheid regime fell, so did the old Horde. The Alliance has an ignorant and racist leadership so they decided to seek conflict with the new Horde. South Africa had a wise and enlightened first democratically elected President who chose to reach out and seek peace with the new White community, where most people would've sought vengeance. South Africa was lucky in that one such wise person ended up at the top of the hierarchy, the Alliance was not. But these people that are ahead of their time, more quickly can reassess their opinion based on an ever-changing world, they exist everywhere. And with the fate of the Alliance in the hands of an ignorant leadership, some of these people will inevitably go neutral.

you are incredibly ignorant. varian has offered the horde lumber multiple times to end the fighting in ashenvale, varian was in open discussion to bring the blood elves back into the alliance, he is on good terms and has been shown willing to negotiate with baine and vol'jin, his son is personally friends with those two. varian led both the horde and the alliance in the nightmare war.

the horde has been the one who is openly hostile, when deathwing was released while the alliance sent its forces to combat the twilights hammer the horde took the advantage to go and conquer alliance lands while they were distracted. in wrath the forsaken ruined a horde and alliance co-mission at the wrathgate and the forsaken have made it clear they have no intentions on respecting borders or even their own allies.

every war has been started by the horde.

[Zarc]

Really? You're telling me that the Horde hasnt started every single war since TBC? Im a hordie, mind you, but the Allies hasn't done shit lately, except threatening and looking kinda grumpy.

The way the Alliance have treated the Horde since the old Horde was defeated is not unlike the way the Allied powers treated Germany after the First World War. That gave us Hitler. Not because the German people is at heart evil, because that kind of oppressive behavior feeds extremism, leading to such things as the New Plague or the leadership of Garrosh.

[CosmicGuitars]

Saurfang, of course!

[AeneasBK]

you are incredibly ignorant. varian has offered the horde lumber multiple times to end the fighting in ashenvale, varian was in open discussion to bring the blood elves back into the alliance, he is on good terms and has been shown willing to negotiate with baine and vol'jin, his son is personally friends with those two. varian led both the horde and the alliance in the nightmare war.

the horde has been the one who is openly hostile, when deathwing was released while the alliance sent its forces to combat the twilights hammer the horde took the advantage to go and conquer alliance lands while they were distracted. in wrath the forsaken ruined a horde and alliance co-mission at the wrathgate and the forsaken have made it clear they have no intentions on respecting borders or even their own allies.

every war has been started by the horde.

Hush up ya racist! Don'tcher know the orcs are hippies now?!

No.

Azeroth won't be safe until the orcs have gone home. Are we really going to sit around for another horde "warchief" to decide they want some forbidden power and go on a rampage for the FOURTH (!!!!) time? Fool us once, shame on Medivh. Fool us twice, shame on Mannoroth. Fool us a third time, SHAME ON THE HORDE. There won't be a fourth time. Internment camps aren't enough. Make the Dark Portal a one way ticket to their home planet which, ooooh, an ORC blew up.

GG orcs, you're fooling nobody.

[Zarc]

you are incredibly ignorant. varian has offered the horde lumber multiple times to end the fighting in ashenvale, varian was in open discussion to bring the blood elves back into the alliance, he is on good terms and has been shown willing to negotiate with baine and vol'jin, his son is personally friends with those two. varian led both the horde and the alliance in the nightmare war.

the horde has been the one who is openly hostile, when deathwing was released while the alliance sent its forces to combat the twilights hammer the horde took the advantage to go and conquer alliance lands while they were distracted. in wrath the forsaken ruined a horde and alliance co-mission at the wrathgate and the forsaken have made it clear they have no intentions on respecting borders or even their own allies.

every war has been started by the horde.

You are talking of recent events that happened under the rule of Garrosh, this was too late. The oppression of the Alliance had already led to the leadership of Garrosh, just like the oppression of the Allies after the First World War contributed to the rise of Hitler. Thankfully rather than economic constraints after World War II General Marshal gave us the Marshal Plan instead. That is the wise leadership the Alliance should've had after the Second War. Unfortunately they didn't have that, which has led to the situation we have today. All conflicts since the start Warcraft III between the Alliance and the Horde could've been avoided had the Alliance leadership been wiser. Now we are far down the line, and not analyzing things any deeper the Horde will seem like the bad guys from time to time just like the Alliance. But at it's core it was a poor judgement from the Alliance leadership that led us here.

[Immitis]

The way the Alliance have treated the Horde since the old Horde was defeated is not unlike the way the Allied powers treated Germany after the First World War. That gave us Hitler. Not because the German people is at heart evil, because that kind of oppressive behavior feeds extremism, leading to such things as the New Plague or the leadership of Garrosh.

you mean offering them supplies? allowing them to live on a planet that isnt theirs? helping them dispose of a leader that could easily destroy them? locking them up in camps INSTEAD of wiping them all out?

the only reason the horde is still alive is because the alliance ALLOWED them to live.

the horde should be happy that the alliance didnt decide to destroy them the first time. saurfang knows this.

the horde cannot and should not just ignore the sins they committed. saurfang has repeated this time and time again, not just the sins they committed against azeroth but the sins they committed to their own children and people.

[Senarx]

I'd pick Illidan over anyone every time.

[Immitis]

You are talking of recent events that happened under the rule of Garrosh, this was too late. The oppression of the Alliance had already led to the leadership of Garrosh, just like the oppression of the Allies after the First World War contributed to the rise of Hitler. Thankfully rather than economic constraints after World War II General Marshal gave us the Marshal Plan instead. That is the wise leadership the Alliance should've had after the Second War. Unfortunately they didn't have that, which has led to the situation we have today. All conflicts since the start Warcraft III between the Alliance and the Horde could've been avoided had the Alliance leadership been wiser. Now we are far down the line, and not analyzing things any deeper the Horde will seem like the bad guys from time to time just like the Alliance. But at it's core it was a poor judgement from the Alliance leadership that led us here.

what the fuck are you talking about? after warcraft 3 the alliance mainly left the horde alone. it was a cold war and they had agreed not to engage in combat.

they even stood together during the events in silithus. and in bc they again stood together against the legion. it wasnt until wrath when the forsaken openly started atacking people that the war turned into actual fighting.

while the alliance was fighting the forces of the lich king in icecrown what did the orcs do? did they put aside their differences to help save the world? no they came up behind the alliance and started killing them and then got themselves killed by arthas.

[Zarc]

what the fuck are you talking about? after warcraft 3 the alliance mainly left the horde alone. it was a cold war and they had agreed not to engage in combat.

they even stood together during the events in silithus. and in bc they again stood together against the legion. it wasnt until wrath when the forsaken openly started atacking people that the war turned into actual fighting.

while the alliance was fighting the forces of the lich king in icecrown what did the orcs do? did they put aside their differences to help save the world? no they came up behind the alliance and started killing them and then got themselves killed by arthas.

Rather than reconcile the Alliance put the Orcs in internment camps and kept them as slaves at the conclusion of the Second War. I wouldn't call that leaving them alone. Just imagine if Nelson Mandela has instituted a reversed apartheid regime rather the reconcile. The white minority youth of today would be throwing Molotov cocktails on the streets of Johannesburg today rather than live in peace with their fellow citizens.

If the Alliance had had a wiser leadership the Orcs would never have had to make their flight from slavery for freedom in Kalimdor at the start of Warcraft III, they would have had no need to found the new Horde to defend themselves from their former masters. Instead all races could have been part of the same society and stood together against the true evil of this world, such as the Scourge and the Burning Legion.

But the Alliance leadership did the same mistake the allies did after the First World War, they punished the population of the regime they fought. We learned from this, and so General Marshal and Nelson Mandela opted not to punish the population of the regimes they fought, instead they ended the leadership but reconciled with the people. The Alliance should have been wise enough to do the same, they did not.

Now the Forsaken apothecaries are our Molotov cocktail throwing youth, and Garrosh our Hitler.

[Eucep]

I'd side with Turalyon or Saurfang. Illidan since war3 has been an egotistical nutcase, he was not likable for me in there, not in war of the ancients and I ignored it was Illidan in TBC.

[Maxilian]

Illidan

for me, Chaotic Good is always more interesting than Lawful Good

These, and i like Illidan way more than i like Turalyon (i found his ways of doing things a little selfish)

[Immitis]

Rather than reconcile the Alliance put the Orcs in internment camps and kept them as slaves at the conclusion of the Second War.

explain to me how you are supposed to reconcile with blood fueled demonic minions?

im not even going to reply to you anymore because either you have no idea when these events took place or you are purposefully acting ignorant.

the orcs were still under the influence of the demon blood during the 2nd war. it was only AFTER they locked them up and didnt allow them to fight that the effects began to wear off.