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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novx View Post
    What do you consider casual? There is a guild that raids 9 hours a week and is 12/14H...that is the definition of casual playing.
    This is the most insane thing I've ever heard anyone say on this forum.

    Casual is not an excuse to be shit at a game and its really sad when people think that because they are casual they can just suck and are 100% fine with that.
    Guess what? They can suck, and Blizzard is still going to want their fifteen dollars.

  2. #142
    How about you guys just do raids like regular people and not demand welfare epics for hitting 90

  3. #143
    Why do people care so much about their raids being "exclusive?" Why do fake elitists and fake "good" players feel that these art assets, these boss models, these encounter mechanics should be exclusive ONLY to them?

    "Oh, you want to see the Mogu architecture of Throne of Thunder? Sorry, you have to play 15 hours a week and put out 100K DPS. Oh, you want to see the art of the new Garrosh model? Well, if you aren't gemmed and enchanted and don't have 550 iLvl, sorry, you can't see the new model."

    Raiding is killing bosses with a large group. Where in that definition, at all, does it REQUIRE you to be good? News flash: it doesn't.

    Let's turn it around: I'd say more people do LFR than Heroic raiding. What if all the LFR raiders all of a sudden said "Heroic raiding is lame, get rid of it." That'd be stupid, right? Well, that's how stupid it is to say "let's get rid of LFR."

    It's about as dumb as pro NFL football players saying "get rid of high school football, they don't put in 5 hours of practice every day, they don't get to play football."

  4. #144
    What end game content I propose? The same endgame content everyone else plays: raiding or pvp. The casual excuse has been used for far too long to express one person's laziness or incapability (skillwise) to raid. 99% of the people who call themselves casual are not casual, but are just bad, antisocial or lazy players. Only a very small amount of players that label themselves "casual" are actually casual. I raid 6 hours per week, and I progress into heroics. I can't imagine it being more casual than that. Clearing LFR actually takes longer than clearing normal mode with a guild.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Except:


    Do you really want all those people who currently run LFR in your Flex groups? Would you run Flex with them? Also Flex groups require hours to organize in most cases. This completely excludes LFR's primary audience. If you think Flex is so great then do that. No one's asking you to run LFR.
    No. I don't. However, sadly, they are.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    No. I don't. However, sadly, they are.
    Exactly. Now imagine how many more of them would do that without LFR to keep them busy. That was the point I was trying to make.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  7. #147
    Legendary! Thallidomaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarthan View Post
    How about you guys just do raids like regular people and not demand welfare epics for hitting 90
    Because some people legitimately can't because there are no other people to do raids with. You haven't heard of deserted and unbalanced realms? It's very hard to get a raid group together if a /who check yields less than 49 people total.
    Enstraynomic - League of Legends
    TheEnst - Starcraft II

  8. #148
    Deleted
    I want all of you guys to remember, when the next atrocity against your hardcore gamer ethos comes down the pipe...

    I want you to remember, when LFR gets nerfed down to a glorified Scenario but still hands out piles of epics...

    I want you to remember, when Normals end up gutted, or when 25s go away, or whatever else happens that pisses you off next...

    I want you to remember, that you had nothing useful to say. That you had no alternatives to offer. That you basically told Blizzard "Make this game for us alone, and if that loses you a few hundred million casual dollars, well fuck you!" and then tried to act surprised and offended when they shockingly didn't listen to you.

    Because I don't know what offense against the hardcores is coming next, but I know it's coming. This little hardcore fantasy where Blizzard tells everyone to L2P or quit is never going to happen in a billion years, and by sitting around wishing for it, you are guaranteeing that you will never be taken seriously by the developer or ever satisfied with the game again.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    What end game content I propose? The same endgame content everyone else plays: raiding or pvp. The casual excuse has been used for far too long to express one person's laziness or incapability (skillwise) to raid.
    I've always had to scratch my head at calling someone "lazy" for not spending as much time playing a game as they do. When I was growing up, spending all your time screwing around on the computer was considered lazy, not the other way around. Have times changed that much?
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  10. #150
    Deleted
    Stupid Pro Mode On

    They can cancel their suscription as I don't care about them. This game is mine and LFR is thw worst thing ever happened, although I'm a heroic raider and I never play it.

    Stupid Pro Mode Off

  11. #151
    Once region-wide LFG gets implemented (and it will eventually), "I'm on a low pop server" will no longer be an issue. People are already making a very good use of OQueue to run Flex, rather successfully.

    Do we want LFR population in Flex? Sure. If a group decides to go for a smooth run, they can set their rules like certain ilvl with final boss achievement required, for example. Unexperienced players can form their own groups with other unexperienced players, or if they're lucky maybe they can get carried by a nice group of people. However they can't expect to get carried all the time, which is what LFR does at the moment.

    If one is so casual/anxious that he/she cannot bear any responsibility greater than what's required in LFR, then raiding simply isn't for them, because one of the major component of raiding is teamwork, which requires responsibility commitment from everyone.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarthan View Post
    How about you guys just do raids like regular people and not demand welfare epics for hitting 90
    How about you worry about your own game, and let the rest of the people who pay our $15 a month worry about what enjoyment we take out of it? Worry about your own epeen and your heroic timeless warforged ultra awesome purple level gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    The casual excuse has been used for far too long to express one person's laziness or incapability (skillwise) to raid. 99% of the people who call themselves casual are not casual, but are just bad, antisocial or lazy players.
    You are not qualified to make judgments about millions of other people who aren't into the same things you are. Nor is your opinion about other people valid.

    Seriously, the contempt demonstrated by people in this forum is staggering.

  13. #153
    Herald of the Titans Pancaspe's Avatar
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    OP you are missing the point. They want LFR removed so that casuals have NO Endgame.
    @Ghostcrawler:Some advice: [My pet issue] is why there were sub losses is one of the weaker arguments players use. Players don't have that data.

  14. #154
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    What end game content I propose? The same endgame content everyone else plays: raiding or pvp. The casual excuse has been used for far too long to express one person's laziness or incapability (skillwise) to raid. 99% of the people who call themselves casual are not casual, but are just bad, antisocial or lazy players. Only a very small amount of players that label themselves "casual" are actually casual. I raid 6 hours per week, and I progress into heroics. I can't imagine it being more casual than that. Clearing LFR actually takes longer than clearing normal mode with a guild.
    First off, don't make stuff up.

    Secondly, Being competent at your class is not the only entrance barrier to being in a normal mode raid. In fact, that's probably a very tiny one; anyone that looks up a guide on elitistjerks could start doing competent DPS... It's not particularly difficult.

    The main entrance barrier is the raiding guild itself, quite simply. Not everyone 1) has times that comport with raiding guild's schedule on their server 2) fulfills a role in demand by raiding guilds (or PuGs. Ever seen someone pugging melee DPS in recent memory? Didn't think so.) or 3) even has raiding guilds available.

    Flex eases that somewhat, but still carries the catch-22 of "show achieve to be invited" that plagued WotLK PuGs (or, again, PuG groups simply don't exist.) In addition, players have become paranoid about the "we hafta take EXACTLY 14 people, or the bosses all jump up in difficulty!" thing as well.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  15. #155
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarthan View Post
    How about you guys just do raids like regular people and not demand welfare epics for hitting 90
    The raids that regular people do are LFR.

    I don't know why you super people are doing your own special raids, anyway.

  16. #156
    Flex raid

    asdas
    Hi Sephurik

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    Flex raid

    asdas
    Yeah. That's great if you have 530+ ilevel and the achieves (which seems to be the current Flex standard now). That pretty much excludes everyone that LFR was intended for. Please play again.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  18. #158
    Personally I'd like to just see it removed, or at least drastically redone at least.

    I've been in both ends of the spectrum. Played since the day of release, raided at top level (top 3 in the world-level), now I don't.
    However, LFR sure isn't the solution.
    Why? Because it's not even remotely enjoyable. It's an shit-fest of people zerging bosses with no resemblance of strategy, calling names, leaving in rage as kids when things didn't turn out as easy as possible, arrogance, remarks about whatever and their moms.
    If they interact at all that is. The last couple I did was without a single line of chat, not even a "hi" or a "ready?". Anti-social-gaming more like it.
    It's just a painful experience from start to end, and I cannot for the life of me see why anyone "want" to do that. - at all.
    And it sure as hell wont make anyone try raiding. (I refuse to call LFR raiding, cause it's not. It's a glorified 5man if anything.)

    Openraid is a start, I suppose. However the idiocy of people demanding 660ilvl and experience from the second tier of the next expansion is ruining that as well.
    And of course, god forbid that people have to interact.
    Last edited by lolvik; 2013-10-31 at 07:38 AM.

  19. #159
    We already have it its called Flex

  20. #160
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    My own theory is that a good chunk of folks simply weren't enthusiastic about the overall vibe of the content, nor various changes made to player mechanics. Pandas and talent trees, for example, were both quite polarizing.

    I'd be curious to see how many players dropped their sub before hitting 90.
    That's fucking RICH I gotta say. I mean you've said before that the argument the game is old is incredible weak but talent trees and pandas are even weaker. The talent treest (and we know this from developer tweets) are largely irrelevant at lower lvls of play. People simple pick whatever and stick with it they don't optimize or play around at all until much higher levels of gameplay. As for pandas I can see people not liking pandas but they bought the bloody expansion with a panda on the front cover already, why they would then leave after seeing a panda in the game is fucking beyond me and is not a very rational explanation for the subscriber drop. Actually the it's old argument is much better, not that I agree with it entirely but it makes more fucking sense then HUR DUR PANDAS AND TALENTS...

    Here's a much more realistic and far more accurate picture of why people are leaving. The developers took a fucking base ball bat to the end game that was so god damn casual friendly in wrath and cata. They stopped making dungeons as content entirely (yes i know some of you got sick of running them but you aren't casual players), they shoved everybody at end game into raiding or raid content at any rate (which is not casual friendly at all), they gutted extremely popular reward systems (once again to shove players into raid content) and told people RNG was good they should love it (which they didn't), and to top it all off in 5.0 they asked people to grind the most ridiculously boring and obnoxious and (once again) not casual friendly content in the universe daily quests. They gutted the casual experience to give the game a more vanilla feel (and their tweets will explain this to you in no uncertain terms), to offer some players "more to do" (when they had lots to do in cataclysm just none of it had gear behind it so they avoided it) and at the same time began to offer increasingly less and less in each patch that had any casual appeal or hell just anything NEW ffs. OH YAY ANOTHER RAID... WGAF? WGAS? Yes casual players left. The game became less suited to them when it became more raid oriented then ever. That's where your subscriber loss is from.

    Now you can make the argument and the case that maybe warcraft isn't for them and you can patronize all you want about it but don't act like it's some mystery and don't give the developers licence to continue to ignore the actual problems by pinning it on things that aren't rational or are largely irrelevant or are even flat out improvements to the game (i.e talent system).
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-10-31 at 07:46 AM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

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