To people whom want LFR removed: What endgame do you propose for the casual players?

[Azrile]

Then you don't do normal raids? Just like in real life, if you don't have the time to do something, you don't get to do it.

And follow what happens next

If people don´t raid that don´t have time or desire to schedule with a raid guild. Then not nearly as many people kill Garrosh ( look at the chart this site had up a few weeks ago).. when suddenly you have only a small percentage of people raiding, then guess where dev time is going to go? answer, the the content the 90% of players IS doing.. which will be more stuff like TI and more 5 man dungeons.

People are stupid if they don´t think there will be consequences of LFR being removed... I can tell you exactly what it will be... 4 boss raid tiers and a crapload of 5 man dungeons. Blizzard is not stupid, they will keep developing content for the majority of players.

Raiders who hate LFR are just too supid to realize that the devs are fighting hard ( by inventing LFR) to justify spending so much dev time on a small fraction of players.

[Paula Deen]

Make LFR Ten Players, have it drop Loot that is equal to First Raid Tier epics, even in new tiers, nerf the bosses it to become pointlessly easy, and focus on Flex.


I know, that must have been incredibly hard, but there ya go. For the record, I don't use LFR, but it does not need removed, just revamped.

[damonskye]

There is a large group of people on this site for whom "casual" seems to be a dirty word.

So let's spell it out in realistic terms. Casuals make up the VAST majority of people who play this game. Each of them spends $15 a month on a subscription. Without realistic things to do after leveling, casual players will get bored and leave. Blizzard will lose a significant portion of its revenue. And WoW will die.

If you don't believe me, take an economics course. This game will only supply when there is a demand.

So, those of you who hate LFR and want it to go away, and think casual players are something to be scorned, you really need to start living in the real world. You need LFR and other things for casual players to do. Casual players pay the bills, and pay FAR more of them than you hardcore folks do.

[Kaleredar]

Ever consider that a game like this just isn't for people that, you know, don't have time for it? Who'da thought!

Strangely enough, businesses (other than the pompous ones that appeal to rich assholes) don't usually accumulate business by making a point of who they're NOT trying to attract... especially when those people already make up the vast, vast majority of their playerbase.

Sold better than Cata or MoP did, IIRC.

Oh, that's a simple correction; you are not recalling correctly.

LFR only came about at the end of Cataclysm; people were quitting before then, and heroic dungeons and raids were among the most challenging they'd ever been.

[Gheld]

Casual players should just stand around in town, ready to tell the Über Elite players how great and unique they are.

That seems to be what they want.

They want us to use our gathering professions and mail them free mats, and then watch their raid videos on youtube and leave endearing comments.

[Jensxo]

Possibly form a guild made up of other casual players - raid once a week in normal mode and try to progress? like everyone else?

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If u can do lfr - all 4 wings a week which is like 3hrs of your time i guess including queues - then im sure you can do 1 normal mode raid per week for 3 hours - and slowly progress.

[Brodeo]

I think it did do some harm to the community but it did cut away a lot waiting time for some people. Look at MMOs that don't/didn't have LFG, forums pleads for a tool for easy group making. If WoW hadn't made it/implemented it, it might have bleed more subs. Arguably good for some, bad for others.

i would argue connected realms, proving grounds, and flex raid would have been better solutions.

too late now though.

[Deleted]

That seems to be what they want.

They want us to use our gathering professions and mail them free mats, and then watch their raid videos on youtube and leave endearing comments.

Gotta admit some deep and dark place inside me that would be so satisfying

But I'll be reasonable, /kneel when you see me, will do

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i would argue connected realms, proving grounds, and flex raid would have been better solutions.

too late now though.

To certain extend indeed I agree with that

[mordale]

I realize this is not the prevailing "correct" view, but I truly despise voice chat in an immersive role-playing game. It pretty much destroys all of that "role playing" component instantly.

you are right, but WoW has as much immersion as a wading pool.

its very much a mechanics and game-play centric game, more so in raids.

[Durandro]

You don't beat a game by only playing half of it.

Nope. But you can beat a game by playing it on an easier difficulty setting.

That's why most games have 'Easy' or 'Casual' settings. Why should WoW be different? Let people have their easier difficulty setting, and stick to whatever you find most comfortable. No need to piss on anyone's parade.

[Wildtree]

Make LFR Ten Players, have it drop Loot that is equal to First Raid Tier epics, even in new tiers, nerf the bosses it to become pointlessly easy, and focus on Flex.


I know, that must have been incredibly hard, but there ya go. For the record, I don't use LFR, but it does not need removed, just revamped.

1. How do you start an expansion? LFR and Flex aren't open then for a full tier?
And further down, when we are 3 or 4 tiers in the expansion, how do you propose a new player to ever enter just Flex in Tier 4 when all he has is Tier 1 gear?
Maybe rethink your proposal?

[Deleted]

you are right, but WoW has as much immersion as a wading pool.

its very much a mechanics and game-play centric game, more so in raids.

Strangely it is still one of the best MMOs for RP (guess it is mostly down to the community)... I really want a better RP MMO

[Itisamuh]

You're asking them to provide good alternatives, when they can't even give logical reasons why it should be removed in the first place?

[Durandro]

i would argue connected realms, proving grounds, and flex raid would have been better solutions.

too late now though.

Proving Grounds are flawed in that it doesn't simulate a real raid situation and isn't well balanced enough to account for every class or spec (or the fact before certain gear levels some specs are utter trash).

Connected Realms and Flex doesn't solve the rampant elitism that's saturated into the game community. You can get judged in LFR but 9/10 nothing else will happen. With Flex if you don't measure up to whatever ridiculously high standards are demanded then you'll never get anywhere 9/10. I'm a fortunate exception, in that I applied to a guild while really badly geared on a brand new character and was taken in purely because of my charm and wit - a very rare exception, which paid off for my guild in the long run. The average PUG is not as generous or reasonable.

[endersblade]

You won't get good answers, because anyone saying that LFR should be removed simply hasn't thought the issue all the way through, or hasn't been playing long enough to realize that when the game DID have more dungeons, folks got utterly sick of running them, and you had just as many complaints flying around. (just about different topics).

While the game should certainly have more dungeons, and hopefully good ones next time around, LFR isn't, and shouldn't, be going anywhere.

Actually, I think they just need to make dungeons more 'epic'. Right now, you spend ~10 minutes in a dungeon, get your loot/JP/etc, and then requeue. Well, I guess LFR is like that too lol. But there just isn't any substance to dungeons anymore. Not enough mob pulls, not enough fight mechanics, zero story (some of the Wrath instances had great story) and just pull-pull-pull-done. It's just kinda lame.

They need to make instances that take time. This will get rid of a lot of the generation ADD kiddies, too, as they won't be able to speed through instances anymore. The playerbase would get better. They also should give dungeons some sense of progression - hell, make the higher tier dungeons drop epics and have higher requirements to get in. Bring back attunements or something. The problem is, this isn't even really an RPG anymore, it's just a loot pinata. Log in, get lootz, log out. While I don't think things need to get impossibly challenging, they definitely need to be beefed up.

[mordale]

Strangely it is still one of the best MMOs for RP (guess it is mostly down to the community)... I really want a better RP MMO

it may be one of the best, but i doubt they're RPing while doing raids.

[Paula Deen]

1. How do you start an expansion? LFR and Flex aren't open then for a full tier?
And further down, when we are 3 or 4 tiers in the expansion, how do you propose a new player to ever enter just Flex in Tier 4 when all he has is Tier 1 gear?
Maybe rethink your proposal?

Actually there is no flaw

You see the LFR gear is meant to get you started, if you have gear equal to the first tier then you can enter the second tier Flex or the Second Tier Normal with gear that would suffice for such a task and give players a better experience in Normal and Flex content. Obviously first tier would be different (more than likely Dungeon Epics status, much not rare, like the MoP Dungeons) but this entire setup would force players to interact with others and get a feel for how harder content works, even if it is nerfed by that point. To be completely honest, its the way gearing was meant to be.

Basically this would require to do old content to get your gear up to current levels.

[Deleted]

it may be one of the best, but i doubt they're RPing while doing raids.

Erhmmm, right, only weirdos do that :I

[Jaroko]

to people whom want LFR removed: What endgame do you propose for the casual players?

Heres how. By never getting any decent gear and spending time watching snowflake wannabes try to act elite because they have time to do normals +

[Normie]

LFR COULD be good, but that's not the case. It isn't a teaching tool or tuned for casual play, it rewards complete incompetence.

It also rewards people who are patient and do the right thing.

This thing where because one person pisses in the swimming pool, you blow up the swimming pool, that's just stupid.