The Fallen Protectors Heroic DPS Help!

[Deleted]

Hello there guys,

I'm wondering whether anybody could help me. I'm part of the Guild ION on Al'akir and we are struggling to finish off Protectors. I will start of with what we are currently doing and then go into changes I've already thought about. At the moment we are running the following composition;

Tank - Druid, Blood DK
Healers - Resto Druid, Resto Shaman, Holy Pala
DPS - Hunter, Mage, Frost DK, Ele Shaman and Ret Paladin.

Currently, we are bloodlusting at the start of the fight and trying to stack all three of the bosses up as much as possible we tend to get Sun and He down to around 85% ish by the time Rook desperate measures phase kicks in. During Rook's DM, we have our He tank run to Sorrow whilst picking up Gloom and the other tank picks up Misery and stacks them up with Rook. For our Ranged we have an interupt sequence and also a marker on the floor to help with the Inferno blast, if it's on my I tend to Feign Death around 2 seconds away from the cast completion. We will just continue to AoE until the adds are down, being careful not to bring Sun into her next phase until they're dead.

During the next Sun phase, we do the usual strategy and group the raid up taking care of poisons on the floor, ranged will focus on the spawn's and the melee will focus on AoE'ing the small adds within the orb.

Once this is down, we then take HE into his next phase and we pop a few personals for Anguish to die as quickly as possible, we put the mark on the Frost DK until the damage gets to much, then on the mage for Iceblock and then me for two detterrences and usually by then it's dead, if not, I put it on our Holy Pala for bubble which usually works okay if it gets to that stage.

By the time we finish this phase, we are able to go back to Rook and he is around 42% Health so it's a quick burn to the next phase and then we just repeat the above again. By the time we get through He's last phase again we have roughly one minute left, give or take 5 seconds to DPS the bosses and by the time we hit enrage, Rook and Sun are on around 8% and He is on about 18-20% Health.


So as you can see, we are clearly doing something wrong as I've seen guilds with similar and worse DPS downing them. One possible solution is to bring a warlock and swap out the Retridin as Warlocks are just crazy on this fight. I know a lot of people are doing them in the order Rook > He > Sun. Is there any particular reason for this as we feel it's better to keep Sun in the middle for our Healers and Calamity.

If you go to WoL and go on Al'akir - ION and look at try 14 on the 30th October, you'll be able to see the particular try I'm talking about. We've had a few similar but they weren't logged so I can't provide you with anything there. I would love to provide the link, but it's blocked as I'm at work.

If anybody could help me out with this? I'd be greatly appreciative!

Míkazt

[Deleted]

Hello there,

first of all you won't kill Protectors with similar or worse DPS; I checked the logs of our first kill a month ago (you can see them here) – we had 1.75M raid DPS and killed them 9 seconds after berserk. In that 10:11 attempt of yours you have about 1.4M.

One of the obvious differences I can see when I compare the two logs is tank DPS. In our first kill, me and Rae were doing a bit over 400k DPS combined, in your log the tanks are doing less than 300k total. You really should make sure Rook is stacked on Sun pretty much all the time and that He is only moved away when he has Noxious Poison up and there's already a lot of poison pools near the other two bosses (if you're close to pushing him into his Desperate Measures phase, you can keep him stacked on the others anyway, because the poison pools will disappear when he switches phase). You need to make sure the tanks are cleaving everything as much as they can – for example I'm guessing your DK isn't applying diseases properly because he only has 400k damage done to Rook on that attempt).

The ret should be doing more; unfortunately that's the only observation I can make because I don't really know anything about the spec . Your lack of the legendary cloak is also hurting your DPS quite a bit as you can see when you compare your output with that of our hunter in the logs. Your mage can also compare your log with ours and look for stuff to tweak, because he's doing similar DPS as our mage, but with 15ilvl better gear. I guess Nether Tempest vs Living Bomb is a big difference there.

The tanks should be helping with the ranged adds during Sun's Desperate Measures phase. Damage taken outside of the bubble isn't anything unhealable and they can always pop a cooldown if it does become overwhelming for some reason. When those two mobs die the phase ends so you really want them killed ASAP.

We do the Rook Desperate Measures phase a bit differently; I, as the He tank, pick up Misery and drag them around the room so we don't have any poison pools/defiled ground near the stacking spot; the other mobs are stacked up.

Multidotting is of course very strong on this fight, if done properly; if you can get a good warlock in I definitely recommend that.

We do Rook > He > Sun, but not really for any particular reason, this should be left to the preference of your team.
For reference, the average item level in our group on our first kill was 552 so even though your setup isn't the best, you definitely have the gear you need to kill it, just need to optimize things a bit with the cleaving etc.

One more thing – you had 2 paladins in your group, make sure they pick up Clemency and use Hand of Protection to remove Garrote from people.

That's all I can think of for now, if you have any specific questions, ask away!

[RuneeBH]

We had a bit of a DPS issue on our first attempts..then we decided to just stack He and Rook, and basically just move to not stand in noxious poison, and just continue to cleave throughout the fight. It is pretty much a huge waste to not have the bosses in cleave range. Even during Sun's phase, I just take He and stand next to 1 of the big adds outside of the orb and cleave He & the Big adds down, while also having Rook on top of us as well. Basically, whatever you're killing, have 2+ things there. You'll see your kill times and reduce significantly as time goes on.

[Deleted]

In addition to all of dagthul's good advice consider the follwoing:

Swapping to Rook>He>Sun
This allows you to keep HE in the centre for longer, as the noxious poision will get reset sooner. Having Sun's despertae measures last just measn you'll get one more calamity, but you should have more than enough raid cd's to cover them.

Using your paladins Hand of Sacs instead of immunties. Since you're struggling to meet the dps requirement having people ice block and deter etc isn't ideal.

[Inthislzon]

With 2 paladins i'd argue against doing he > sun. You can BoP the first 2 garrotes (one each paladin NOT 2 the same paladin), do rook phase with 1 garrote (maybe 2 if slow DPS), then sun phase with 3-4 and then reset on he. From there you bop the first 4 ones, giving you a clean rook and 1-2 on sun, and then just finish off he so garrotes reset again

[Deleted]

Thank you for your advice guys, I've only been playing again for around 6 weeks and since then took a turn to raiding and that's the reason I don't have my Legendary cloak, I did however get 12/12 runestones before the raid started but didn't get enough time to get the 600 cloak but I will have that by the time we come to raid again, so that'd be awesome!

I think I've figured it out for us We literally just tank Rook away from everything due to poisons and that's where we're failing. I think (After knowing our raiders capabilities) it'd be better for us to stick to the normal Rook > He > Sun and keep cleaving, that's what we're missing I do agree Constella (Blackmaira) did very low DPS for this fight compared to his normal DPS output, I can only assume he was being used a lot more for utilization, it's a bit difficult keeping on top of everything, but switching the order around should be greatly beneficial to us

Thank you once again guys, any more help would still be appreciated ^-^

Mikazt

[Deja Thoris]

Your problem is partly your lack of multidotters. This fight is a multidotters wetdream and they pull insane numbers because of it. I've not checked the logs but at the very least make sure the mage is using the right bomb (prolly nether tempest for this fight) and that he keeps it rolling on all 3 bosses. If you don't have the ability to get a multidotter or 2 in then your other option is to cleave more efficiently and that was explained well above.

If you are really pushed for damage then consider having the resto druid do a hotw nuke under bloodlust. The damage at the start is as low as its going to be.

[Pearsyn]

Hope I can offer you some assistance.

Your initial burn and push on the boss is more than acceptable for a kill.

Rook's DM phase I would change though. We have our Rook tank pick up Sorrow (Inferno Strike Cast) and tank facing the wall so that no one is standing in Vengeful Strikes except for him. We tank Gloom right behind Rook and Sorrow (so 3 targets are stacked). Then we have an interrupt rotation Melee - Tank - Melee for Gloom. For the 2nd Interrupt (the tank's first) I will get it (Hunter) or mage/shaman works because Gloom will stop half way to the stack point. In case that looks confusing the rotation would be Melee1 - Hunter - Melee2 - Melee1 - Tank - Melee2 - Melee1 - Tank - Melee2 etc. Since your raid is stacked up theres only 1 thing left for you to worry about, Sha Sear, whoever gets it, get out of the raid. Don't move 20 yards, just enough so that no one takes damage from it.

You have 2 Paladins use Hand of Protection to clear the first 4 early Garrotes (this will significantly reduce the healing requirement) If you're pushing He Softfoot second, you may choose other times to reduce damage...basically if Garrote is going to be on someone for minutes...should try to clear it if possible.

Which boss you push next is your own personal opinion, we do Sun so that Calamity doesn't get out of hand, and Garrotes are a non issue with Paladins in raid.

When we push Sun we stack the raid in the bubble but with a bias towards wherever Rook is being tanked so that when you casts Corruption Kick he doesn't nail everyone in the bubble. AoE the adds in the middle sure, but get the damage on the outside adds, especially if your aoe is weak, even if you're a melee. Need more damage on He? If he has Instant Poison on, get him in the bubble for cleave

He Softfoot DM - self explanatory just have a plan for 'soaking' First person should hold it for as long as possible, regardless of who it is, and then use immunities if you're a hunter/mage etc. i.e. a hunter can hold it for 20+ seconds if they get it first (just make absolute damn sure you pass it before 2nd deter wears off or you'll be one shot.

Now the real challenge of the fight. Don't barrel your way back to Rook 33% just because he's at 42% Whichever boss you pushed last, is going to get less attention for the middle of the fight. When we push Rook to 33% I make it a point to have He Softfoot (our 3rd boss) at 50%, if he has Noxious poison on him ranged has to single target.

Basically just maximize your damage on the bosses with the composition that you have. Anytime Softfoot doesn't have Instant, stack him for cleave if he needs the damage.

[Lumiair]

Another thing to note is it should probably be 2 healed if one of your healers has an offspec. Our first kill hit the enrage I believe, but dropping a heal was what finally did it. Rough on the healers, but it made all the difference (for us at least.) Just something to keep in mind.

[Kalmah]

We have our Rook tank pick up Sorrow (Inferno Strike Cast) and tank facing the wall so that no one is standing in Vengeful Strikes except for him. We tank Gloom right behind Rook and Sorrow

Are you sure you've done this boss, on any difficulty ?

[NightZero88]

Just want to point out that as of 5.4.1 this fight is bugged. Sorrow/Gloom/Misery do not share health which makes the fight significantly more challenging and longer. We tried an attempt last night, noticed this was bugged and decided to skip it until it's fixed which should hopefully be either today or tomorrow. Additionally, adds on blackfuse and some other things have additional health they shouldn't.

[Viriel]

Just want to point out that as of 5.4.1 this fight is bugged. Sorrow/Gloom/Misery do not share health which makes the fight significantly more challenging and longer. We tried an attempt last night, noticed this was bugged and decided to skip it until it's fixed which should hopefully be either today or tomorrow. Additionally, adds on blackfuse and some other things have additional health they shouldn't.

we killed it last night and the healthpools were shared. Sure, the mobs would die 1 or so second later than the one the deathblow was given on, but that's a minor thing.

Bring affliction warlocks is the only thing I can say. And if you have a lot of offheals and dont make many mistakes it's 2healable, we just noticed we made far too many mistakes.

[Zabuzan]

Just want to point out that as of 5.4.1 this fight is bugged. Sorrow/Gloom/Misery do not share health which makes the fight significantly more challenging and longer. We tried an attempt last night, noticed this was bugged and decided to skip it until it's fixed which should hopefully be either today or tomorrow. Additionally, adds on blackfuse and some other things have additional health they shouldn't.

We did not notice this when killing farm bosses last night.

The only boss we noticed seemed different to usual was Iron Juggernaut - usually we kill him 5 seconds or so before the 2nd Siege Mode, this week we killed him just into the 2nd Siege Mode, with an extra week's worth of gear and me personally doing an extra 100k+ DPS by taking 8 stacks of the debuff on our early pulls.

On a side note, a detailed strategy for this encounter can be found here: http://vengeanceking.com/raid-encoun...en-protectors/ (cheeky plug ftw)

[Lumiair]

Just want to point out that as of 5.4.1 this fight is bugged. Sorrow/Gloom/Misery do not share health which makes the fight significantly more challenging and longer. We tried an attempt last night, noticed this was bugged and decided to skip it until it's fixed which should hopefully be either today or tomorrow. Additionally, adds on blackfuse and some other things have additional health they shouldn't.

Happened on our first attempt last night but was just fine after we wiped it.

[Sakamae]

Just want to point out that as of 5.4.1 this fight is bugged. Sorrow/Gloom/Misery do not share health which makes the fight significantly more challenging and longer. We tried an attempt last night, noticed this was bugged and decided to skip it until it's fixed which should hopefully be either today or tomorrow. Additionally, adds on blackfuse and some other things have additional health they shouldn't.

This has been a known bug for weeks if difficulty has been changed in the instance from normal to heroic, i.e. when you walk in if you forgot to set it before Immersius. You need to have someone reset the bosses and it fixes the problem. Have a hunter feign, rogue vanish, or someone sacrifice themselves to reset them before the first pull. The problem does not appear to persist past the first attempt based on other reports.

I can't comment, as our guild did not have any issues with the fight Tuesday. So you wiped once and gave up? I would think you'd at least give it two tries to confirm the problem.

Edit: looking at the logs, damage is quite low. Our first kill was right at enrage and our total damage was 1.79 million, three heal. Comparing mage bombs, our mage is arcane, but Nether Tempest did 57 million, 30% of his total damage. Have your dps check logs to verify talent choices. Your tanks really need to step up the damage, ours were 200k and 250k. 120k is just terrible. You will not kill it with that low of damage.

[Nivrax]

It's not newest patch fault. We had it happen this week and at least 2 times before. Each time it fixed itself after wipe. If you see that happening just reset the fight.

[NightZero88]

This has been a known bug for weeks if difficulty has been changed in the instance from normal to heroic, i.e. when you walk in if you forgot to set it before Immersius. You need to have someone reset the bosses and it fixes the problem. Have a hunter feign, rogue vanish, or someone sacrifice themselves to reset them before the first pull. The problem does not appear to persist past the first attempt based on other reports.

I can't comment, as our guild did not have any issues with the fight Tuesday. So you wiped once and gave up? I would think you'd at least give it two tries to confirm the problem.

I read yesterday about the bug. Blizz also posted it was a known issue so we just decided to skip it instead of wasting time. We're only 2/14 so we decided to work on Sha instead.

[Sakamae]

I read yesterday about the bug. Blizz also posted it was a known issue so we just decided to skip it instead of wasting time. We're only 2/14 so we decided to work on Sha instead.

If you do not have the dps to meet the enrage on protectors, you will not have the dps to down Sha. Sha is a big drop off in kills from protectors. Pull up wowprogress and click Tier 16 (10). At the bottom you can see the number of kills for each boss in heroic to help you gauge difficulty. Yes it's subjective to each group, but there are some very significant drops along the way which are very helpful in determining path, more so back in ToT than SoO thus far, but still good information. You can clearly see what the "cock block" bosses are.

[NightZero88]

If you do not have the dps to meet the enrage on protectors, you will not have the dps to down Sha. Sha is a big drop off in kills from protectors. Pull up wowprogress and click Tier 16 (10). At the bottom you can see the number of kills for each boss in heroic to help you gauge difficulty. Yes it's subjective to each group, but there are some very significant drops along the way which are very helpful in determining path, more so back in ToT than SoO thus far, but still good information. You can clearly see what the "cock block" bosses are.

I'm quite certain we have the DPS to kill Sha (Average iLevel of 550 I'd guess). Even 3 healing it we can push him to P2 with nobody above 80 pride. That being said, we skipped protectors because the health pools where not shared on our first attempt. This causes the fight to be significantly more challenging than it should be. So rather than trying to work at an encounter that was bugged we opted to do Sha instead. I now realize that this is normal and if we just reset it, they mobs will work properly on future pulls so I'm sure we'll start there next week.

[Deleted]

Hello guys,

Thank you very much for all the pointers guys I feel we should have this down next Wednesday after reset, stupid idea to skip the boss this week, wasn't my idea! Our raid leader just felt that we could never do it, I knew it was just optimization and execution, but yeah!!

Thank you again guys