Should you still stop dps on Nazgrim during defensive stance in lfr?

[drockrock]

I read somewhere else that stopping dps during Def. stance in LFR without 2+ stacks of Determination will assure a berserk wipe as all that dps time off the boss cannot be made up with the typically low LFR raid dps.

For that reason alone I say if adds aren't up and he's in Def. stance absolutely everyone should be dpsing him.

[Breccia]

You "should" yes. LFR "should" be a place to practice for Flex or Normal. But I wouldn't yell at other people in LFR if they didn't, because it's not mandatory.

[Beckinsale311]

People that will die from ravagers are the people doing 50k dps anyways and making us hit the enrage, guess what its not the people attacking during defensive wiping you.

We attack through defensive on normal, people do it on heroic. Instead of making macros you should focus on dps and suck less to be honest.

[Fim]

Yes, stop dpsing during defensive stance.

Is this really a problem? Several LFRs I've been in, people didn't try to DPS him at all...

[Keepwatukill]

The last time my guild pulled him on normal we just lusted and popped all CD's when he switched to Def Stance and he melted so quick and we just moved away from ravager axes. It was fun and at the end I felt a little bad for that poor little Orc who just got lit up.

[thedingleberry]

Is this lfr, then if they don't stop dps, it probably doesn't matter much. If it is flex or above, then you need to kick them if they don't listen and you are the leader. That's a bad raider, and they deserve to be punished.

[Keepwatukill]

Are people really doing this burn strat on heroic? If so is it common place or just for highly geared top 100 guilds doing it? I ask because we started Heroic last night and got about 10 pulls in and were wiping at about 15-20% and I remember WAR SONG hitting like a truck on Heroic. How do guilds deal with extra WAR SONG's on heroic?

[Deleted]

I dont know what to tell the raid. I have a macro screaming at people to stop and start dps on Nazgrim, but some people think its okay to dps him during defensive stance now after the nerfs. What do you think?

Uhm, we still do this on our raids, even on HC before the nerfs... So yarr, you can still do this

[Lavalashlol]

It's very possible to just brun through his defensive like many people have stated, but we don't do this on heroic like others have said. We just dot him and light a campfire and roast marshmellows.

[Saicam]

No, in our kills on normal and flex so far we do not stop dps on Defense Stance. Never had a problem. For LFR it was another story.

[Manthis]

Depends on the LFR group's raidwide DPS, if it's low, nuke through def stance, otherwise do it normally.

[H3llhog]

Probably if it's an organized and geared group you shouldn't stop DPSing. In LFR, it seems mandatory. Last week was awesome, though: for the first time I got into a group that killed Nazgrim on the first try (I remember I saw no one but maybe one or two attacking Nazgrim on def. stace.) From then on, I decided to always do LFR on Sundays.

[Lucetia]

I take it you're wiping over and over because of those that can't follow simple instruction.

It's a shame that on LFR he doesn't reflect the spells a player casts during defensive stance right back at that player and no-one else, and said player gets a reduced chance on receiving loot. Because, lets face it, those kind of people will never learn anything by sitting doing mindless DPS.

Other than kicking those that are wiping the raid because they refuse to stop dps during defensive stance, blizz doesn't really give you any other option than to stay and wipe or leave and save yourself wipes/stress. Then again all these bad players probably have kick protection maxed.

This is a really dumb idea, imo. Reason being is certain abilities will generate no rage to him such as any DoT's that do damage over time and have no initial damage applied with it. Pets can also attack him and he won't generate rage (which counts as player damage and the player would be penalized), despite how many people yell at pets during this fight in LFR. Then we have the times you actually have to DPS him during defensive stance if you are about to hit enrage.

So with all those taken into account above you are still fine with the person being penalized for doing what they should be doing? Just because you have some bad players doesn't mean everyone​ should be penalized.

The last time my guild pulled him on normal we just lusted and popped all CD's when he switched to Def Stance and he melted so quick and we just moved away from ravager axes. It was fun and at the end I felt a little bad for that poor little Orc who just got lit up.

Out of curiosity why lust/pop cd's during defensive stance and not berserker stance when he takes extra damage?

this is the kinda thing that blizz shouldn't have nerfed in lfr

it's like sorting out groups on lei'shen, it's part of the fight and players should have to learn that attacking in defensive stance is a bad idea.

direct spell reflect would've been great, so if you do tunnel vision the boss, you kill yourself and it points it out very clearly to the raid that you failed at reading tactics. this is one of those fights that when first released takes a few weeks for everyone in LFR to "get it" - but then once 90% of the playerbase understand whats going on, there will be a lot less failure at it and thus no need for nerfs.

sometimes i think blizz are too quick off the mark with the nerfbat in LFR

As many mentioned they still burn him through defensive stance on Flex/Normal (someone even said Heroic). So you want a mechanic to be able to wipe you in LFR that you can do perfectly fine in higher difficulties? That's not the way it works. If it's possible to do in Flex+ you should be able to do it in LFR without worrying that it'll wipe you all of a sudden. Now if it was not possible in Flex+ then yea it would be a different story if it was needed to be viable in LFR.

[Belloc]

It depends. The way I understand it, there's a short cooldown on his gaining rage from attacks during defensive stance. Meaning, everyone in the raid can attack him and he'll still gain the same amount of rage as if 1-2 people were attacking him. So, if you have people that don't follow instructions, it's better to have the whole raid attacking him. If, however, everyone follows instructions, then it's better to have no one attack him.

[McNeil]

Yes they should, and then focus on the adds. I've seen plenty of times that adds are badly overwhelming the raid during the last 15%...

[Chickat]

People that will die from ravagers are the people doing 50k dps anyways and making us hit the enrage, guess what its not the people attacking during defensive wiping you.

We attack through defensive on normal, people do it on heroic. Instead of making macros you should focus on dps and suck less to be honest.

Harsh? Im not the one dying to ravagers or attacking during defesive stance. The macro takes less then a second to click and thats hardly noticeable. Stop being mean.

[Keepwatukill]

Out of curiosity why lust/pop cd's during defensive stance and not berserker stance when he takes extra damage?

We did it because it is the completely wrong thing to do and did not matter one way or the other.

[Caelia]

Is this really a problem? Several LFRs I've been in, people didn't try to DPS him at all...

All LFR's I've done most people are tunneling on the boss and ignore adds, often resulting in adds being up when next wave spawns. This usually leaves me very low on damage done on boss since I have to run around as melee chasing adds the entire fight.

[Skippy88]

It's funny I did Nazgrim LFR for the first time last night. In looking up the fight I knew not to hit him and a lot of people even went over to not him yet half the raid still did. I felt kind of stupid standing there wondering what to do. As it turned out that wasn't the issue. We hit the enrage timers on our first two attempts but got him on the third. Maybe I should have been hitting him?

[klogaroth]

It's funny I did Nazgrim LFR for the first time last night. In looking up the fight I knew not to hit him and a lot of people even went over to not him yet half the raid still did. I felt kind of stupid standing there wondering what to do. As it turned out that wasn't the issue. We hit the enrage timers on our first two attempts but got him on the third. Maybe I should have been hitting him?

Yeah, if DPS is really low, you can hit the enrage if everyone stands around stopped for too long.

Sometimes if a few warshaman heals get off as well you can beat the enrage by DPSing through defensive where you might wipe otherwise. Even if the warshaman heals weren't on the boss, if everyone lets dots on the boss drop while trying to kill adds that get healing during defensive stance its a lot of potential DPS damage lost.

The other situation is if some people are continuing to DPS during defensive regardless, and pushing him to 100 rage, you might as well have the entire raid doing damage to him instead of half the damage while still having the same rage gain on the boss.

If you have decent DPS then you might as well just burn through defensive stance, because he will die before you get that many ravagers anyway.