Undead Paladins ---> Would it work?

[-Superman-]

I just love all the Lore White Knights crawling out of the woodwork and explaining away every possible answer. They HATE the fact that Undead Paladins EXIST as NPCs just not playable. Blizz needs to just get off their ass and unlock it all in the next expac. Then these knights will have nothing left to explain away and will likely go insane or quit. I've showed time and time again the holes in the lore, and showed reasonable doubt for Race/Class combo existence. Yet these knights, much like iPhone users clinging to their might Apple fail to realize there are alternatives, like Android. This whole thing could come to an end if they would just say two words:

IT'S POSSIBLE

[-Superman-]

Incorrect. Worgen have the ability to be Druids. Humans do not; The only reason Gilnean Humans can be Druids is because they WILL become Worgen later. Notice how Humans still cannot be Druids. It doesn't break lore; It ensures that the game does not need to re-balance in a way that doesn't make sense in lore.

Forsaken Paladins do not make sense in lore. UNDEAD Paladins do, but the Forsaken culture does not allow those who willingly wield the Light to remain with them.

You seem to love your lore, and defending it. So, here you go. The opening sequence in Gilneas has you... A HUMAN druid... fighting your way to the chapel at level 5 or 6, where you are then completely turned from a scratch you suffered in a cellar. You were human before you turned. You were a druid before you turned. If worgen NEVER came to Gilneas, you will still be Human... and a DRUID. Please. Make these facts VANISH Houdini

[Unholyground]

Undead paladins are deathknights. As palandins paladins tho, no. Light burns the undead.

Undead priests say hello.

[-Superman-]

There is no Forsaken Priest who wields the Light at all times, and until you can point one out to me, saying there is is silly. (Our player characters do not count, as player characters are allowed to do as they please without affecting lore.)

The Forsaken as a culture refuse the Light. Paladins are the living embodiment of the Light. They can not exist together.

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Already said: Undead Paladins absolutely are possible. Just not as playable characters, because they cannot exist within the Forsaken. And despite your analogy, you fail to realize one thing:

Some people actually don't like Android as much as they do iOS. Shocking, I know.

Yes, and these people call Apple support everytime there is an update cause they lost everything. I've never had to call Android for... well... anything. Cause Google just works. My analogy has to do with Drinking the WoW (Apple) KoolAid and not realizing there is Coke in the Fridge too.

[Tmbryant91]

You seem to love your lore, and defending it. So, here you go. The opening sequence in Gilneas has you... A HUMAN druid... fighting your way to the chapel at level 5 or 6, where you are then completely turned from a scratch you suffered in a cellar. You were human before you turned. You were a druid before you turned. If worgen NEVER came to Gilneas, you will still be Human... and a DRUID. Please. Make these facts VANISH Houdini

you're trying WAY too hard..

[Unholyground]

Simple answer is make all their spells shadowy in appearance but do holy damage same as every other paladin. It would look badass, and all they would have to do is explain that they are able to harness the light through the darkness that they have overcome.

[-Superman-]

you're trying WAY too hard..

I am just making a point. The Lore Knights seem to love being right and having an explanation for everything. I just want them to explain that one away.

[-Superman-]

Before then, it is only Gameplay that allows Gilnean Humans to be Druids.

Yes. Gameplay. The same gameplay which could allow Undead to be raised as Paladins.

*cut scene* Forsaken grave robbers are looting holy tombs just found beneath Lordaeron and have been moving the once human Paladins to Deathnell for further research. It has been discovered when Holy Light from Undead Priests combined with the Dark Magic used to resurrect Forsaken is COMBINED, these former guardians of the light are reanimated to serve Sylvannas and her armies.*end cut*

Anything can be explained into Lore. They just have to do it.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

You seem to love your lore, and defending it. So, here you go. The opening sequence in Gilneas has you... A HUMAN druid... fighting your way to the chapel at level 5 or 6, where you are then completely turned from a scratch you suffered in a cellar. You were human before you turned. You were a druid before you turned. If worgen NEVER came to Gilneas, you will still be Human... and a DRUID. Please. Make these facts VANISH Houdini

They weren't Druids before. They were harvest druids. They couldn't shapeshift. They helped the crops grow. That's it. The player character had actual Druidic abilities because, you guessed it, gameplay.

The only thing they had in common with actual Druids was the title. Harvest Druids (gilneans) are not real Druids.

Undead priests say hello.

No undea priest willingly uses the Light exclusively. Lore wise, they're all Shadow and are part of the Church of Shadow. They only use the Light a little bit because they need to balance it. None of them use it on any large scale, especially not when compared to other priests.

[-Superman-]

I like KoolAid more than Coke, too.

It would figure

[MrHappy]

we have those in the game....they are called Death Knights

[Aerofluff]

There is no Forsaken Priest who wields the Light at all times, and until you can point one out to me, saying there is is silly. (Our player characters do not count, as player characters are allowed to do as they please without affecting lore.)

The Forsaken as a culture refuse the Light.

From Beryl, a Forsaken priest in the starter zone, and the quest Garments of Darkness:
"You have acknowledged that there is merit in knowing the healing arts. This is wise. But before you can know the dark, you must also know the light."

Sounds pretty clear-cut to me. And by "at all times" I didn't mean casting 24/7 or something ridiculous like that, but by the same token, Blizzard has never implied that there are any restrictions on how frequently they can wield the Light, only that doing so causes pain.

[Tmbryant91]

I am just making a point. The Lore Knights seem to love being right and having an explanation for everything. I just want them to explain that one away.

Because it's a lot less work for Blizzard to allow you to pick the Druid class and level up as a Druid instead of making you play a random class and then giving you the option to become a Druid after you've turned into a Worgen.

I like KoolAid more than Coke, too.

^ Red KoolAid > Everything. I'm embracing my stereotype.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

From Ask Creative Development -- Round II Q & A 23 Jun 2011 (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2721372142) in World of Warcraft this has been changed to be that "Channeling the Light in any way, or receiving healing from the Light, only causes pain. Forsaken priests do not disintegrate or explode from channeling the Light." However, following up that question it would seem that channelling the Light has caused some Forsaken to slowly experience a sharpening of their dulled senses. So in addition to pain they also experience the decay of their flesh more acutely.

Even if they use paladin like abilities they arent true paladins.. And they will get destroyed by that power..

Despite the effects this has on them, Forsaken priests who use the Holy Light are still considered priests... so why would other undead who use the Holy Light as paladins not be considered paladins?
Also this Dev answer keeps citing Forsaken specifically and, as others have mentioned, Forsaken Paladins wouldn't make a lot of sense as Forsaken have deliberately abandoned the Light. However the thread is "Undead Paladins". Can Undead be Paladins? Why yes, here are several examples of Undead Paladins. Done and done.
You could even concoct additional loreguments, as the Risen examples I used were corrupted and raised by a Nathrezim and not the Lich King as the original Forsaken were, maybe that affects their blah blah deedle deedle dee.
Point is they are undead and they are paladins. This is not complicated.

[-Superman-]

They weren't Druids before. They were harvest druids. They couldn't shapeshift. They helped the crops grow. That's it. The player character had actual Druidic abilities because, you guessed it, gameplay.

The only thing they had in common with actual Druids was the title. Harvest Druids (gilneans) are not real Druids.

That's weird, since I could shapeshift into 3 different animals before I even left Gilneas for Darnassus. I know you knights want to explain it all away, but all I keep seeing is GAMEPLAY.

[uiemad]

That's purely for gameplay reasons.
Lore wise, undead can only be shadow priests.

Not true. Fairly recently blizzard stated undead can be holy priests, it's just excessively painful for them to do so.

[unholytestament]

All of them working with the Argent Dawn, all wearing Pally Plate and swinging 2h maces. Sure looks like there are tons of Paladins as NPCs who are not playable as player characters. Thank you for showing everyone this information. It might help convince Blizz we are past due for an unlock.

Sure looks like someone ignoring the fact that there is plenty of pally looking plate available to non-paladin classes as well as the fact that an NPC faction tends to have members dress in matching gear.

[Unholyground]

They weren't Druids before. They were harvest druids. They couldn't shapeshift. They helped the crops grow. That's it. The player character had actual Druidic abilities because, you guessed it, gameplay.

The only thing they had in common with actual Druids was the title. Harvest Druids (gilneans) are not real Druids.



No undea priest willingly uses the Light exclusively. Lore wise, they're all Shadow and are part of the Church of Shadow. They only use the Light a little bit because they need to balance it. None of them use it on any large scale, especially not when compared to other priests.

But doesn't all magic come from the same base essence? All magic can be converted into other types it just has to change after it has been cast I AM A WIZARD!!!

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Yes. Gameplay. The same gameplay which could allow Undead to be raised as Paladins.

*cut scene* Forsaken grave robbers are looting holy tombs just found beneath Lordaeron and have been moving the once human Paladins to Deathnell for further research. It has been discovered when Holy Light from Undead Priests combined with the Dark Magic used to resurrect Forsaken is COMBINED, these former guardians of the light are reanimated to serve Sylvannas and her armies.*end cut*

Anything can be explained into Lore. They just have to do it.

Except that's explicitly against how Blizzard has said undead paladins would work (and the Light in general works).

The Light cannot be forcibly wielded. It's based on faith.

Humans have faith. Dwarves have faith. The Scarlet Crusade has faith (but they're all insane). Blood Elves draw theirs from the Sunwell now (which was originally Arcane, but is now a mixture of Arcane and Light power after Mu'ru's essence was infused with it by Velen), and before that, Mu'ru willingly let himself be captured and have is essence be drawn from himself so the Blood Elves could be saved (Velen explains this after Mu'ru's death in the SWP raid).

If undead paladins did come into WoW, they would have to be exceedingly few. The kind of willpower needed to A. Withstand the destruction of their bodies and B. Faith needed in life in the first place is exceptional. It's not like everyone and their brother could do it after being raised. It's the major reason why most who were paladins in life are now death knights.

To clarify: I've never said it wasn't possible, I said it's highly unlikely. You're a thousand times more likely to get bitten by a shark or struck by lightning than you would be to encounter an undead paladin. Such a being would've been a literal beacon of Light in life (think Uther, Turalyon, etc). The few, the proud, the Paladins, if you will.

Think of it like this: it's easy to play baseball, but it's hard to play baseball well, yes? Same concept; it's easy to be a paladin, but not everyone is good enough to be an undead paladin.

[judgementofantonidas]

As a class, would the lore support the undead able to become paladins?

sure. why not. they made holy cows and blood elf paladins. lets have come orc, troll, and goblin paladins while we are at it.
there is nothing Blizzard can not go back and re write lore for it enough people QQ about it.