Way to ignore my entire argument.
I explained it. Harvest Druids are not real Druids. You only had those spells because of gameplay. Harvest Druids cannot shapeshift, they only existed in Gilneas to help with the farms. They helped grow plants, grats you're a "Druid."
Think of them as being mages who cast healing spells instead of shape shifting and fireballs. Because they aren't real Druids.
No, it doesn't. There are opposites, but all magic comes from varying sources. Shadow spells come from the void, light comes from the Light, etc. shamans and Druids both wield nature magic, but shaman gets theirs from the elements, Druids from the nature, mages get theirs from arcane, warlocks from fel-arcane, etc. all magic is different.
People want to dig up paladins to play Murlocs? Now you are just dodging the real point. You've said it is possible, and thankfully Blizz gets the final vote, not the Lore Knights, or the Combo Breakers (like myself). So, we will leave it in their hands and hope they choose wisely. Though, if there is one thing about Blizz, they tend to stray when it comes to clear thinking, so I believe the odds are slightly in my favor
Lore-wise the undead can not utilize the holy light.
Note that the holy light DOES NOT EQUAL generic holy magic. It is debated whether or not undead can "actually" use holy magic in any form, or if it is just a game mechanic.
What is clear, however, is that the undead CAN NOT use the holy light of creation. It does not respond to the undead when used. This is possibly because of a strange loop hole in the way the Light works in that it is the collective benevolence of all mortal life. The undead are cut off from the living not only physically but spiritually, and are no longer part of that collective spiritual network.
Paladins, unlike priests, are ALWAYS connected to the Holy Light religion / philosophy. It is literally impossible for an undead to be a paladin. They could delude themselves and pretend they're a paladin, but they'd just be a warrior with some magic tricks. Paladins are literally warriors blessed with supernatural powers by the Light itself. It's not something anyone can just pick up and do.
No, that's not how it works.
Harvest Druids aren't real Druids. They're leftovers from the primal human cultures (since Gilneas was relatively isolated, their cultures still survived to an extent).
The harvest Druids helped with agriculture. Nothing else. They couldn't shapeshift. They couldn't do anything even lower tier Druids could (though their spells resembled those). They were not Druids.
Take it from this:
Due to the presence of harvest-witches in their culture, when Gilneans learned about night elf druids (albeit through second, third and even fourth-hand sources) they became fascinated by them and their exotic connotations, to the point where many started referring to harvest witches as "druids", though this was quite far from the truth, as few Gilneans had any idea what a druid actually was. Harvest-witches have a limited control over nature, especially plant life, and the powers of harvest witches bear a coincidental resemblance to the low-level abilities of actual druids. Harvest witches who contracted the worgen curse (which was druidic in origin) found that their powers were somewhat amplified, and after making first contact with the night elves cursed harvest witches were offered induction into the Cenarion Circle for both study and training.
This is complied from in-game sources and the Ask Dev threads. They were never Druids, they never have been. It was only with the curse (and those afflicted with it) that real Druids finally emerged in Gilneas culture.
Yeah yeah, I'm a "Lore Knight," or whatever. But as it stands, I'm right.
I completely agree with everything you have said in this thread. The lore knights for some reason cant stand the thought of unlocking new race / class combinations.
What I dont get about many of the blind WoW fans, is that they dislike any extra options for the player. Wether it comes to race / class combos, to different subscription models for different types of players. They like one thing and they take blizzard's stance as gospel when it comes to anything related to the game, yet blizzard's stance has changed many many many times over the years.
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I would really like to see your "source" on all of this harvest druid bullshit. I call it bullshit because I think you are pulling this stuff directly out of your ass.
Q: What is the lore behind Gilnean druidism and the existence of "harvest-witches"? Is it a native practice, developed by the humans? Did they somehow pick it up from the night elves, even before the Eastern Kingdoms’ discovery of Kalimdor?
A: In the early days of humanity and its civilization, many tribes of humans had primitive belief systems that incorporated simple nature magic. However, the rise of organized religion such as the Holy Light and the potent arcane magics introduced by the high elves quickly supplanted such traditions. Gilneas, due to its relative isolation, has retained a degree of their ancient culture in the contemporary era. The religious leaders of what was in Gilneas referred to as the "old ways" eventually became "harvest-witches"; those who used their nature powers to augment Gilneas’ agricultural output during and following its period of industrialization. Due to the presence of harvest-witches in their culture, when Gilneans learned about night elf druids (albeit through second, third and even fourth-hand sources) they became fascinated by them and their exotic connotations, to the point where many started referring to harvest witches as "druids", though this was quite far from the truth, as few Gilneans had any idea what a druid actually was! Harvest-witches have a limited control over nature, especially plant life, and the powers of harvest witches bear a coincidental resemblance to the low-level abilities of actual druids. Harvest witches who contracted the worgen curse (which was druidic in origin) found that their powers were somewhat amplified, and after making first contact with the night elves cursed harvest witches were offered induction into the Cenarion Circle for both study and training.
And here's the US link for people who like to blow off the EU boards for some reason: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6489940501
http://wowpedia.org/Harvest-witch
Wowpedia is run by Curse, and it's always being updated. Those things at the bottom are called "references," and include both in-game and out of game sources, including stuff from Ask The CDevs threads on the WoW forums. So yes, pulling it out of my ass.
Ignore the speculation. It is just speculation and can neither be proved, nor disproven. Interesting to think about, but we talking facts here after all.
Considering how wishy washy blizzard has been with the lore the past couple of xpacs, I think they should allow every race to be every class. Practically every mmo on the right now allows every race to play every class. I realize that it would be a huge undertaking, having to make all the armor to fit every race. Even now, some of the old armor sets look odd on pandas...
What doesn't kill you, only makes you stranger
Not at all. The light burns the undead.. SO ... Yeah.
Pretty much this.
I'd love Forsaken Paladins. I'd love other classes too; Night Elf Paladins, Blood Elf Druids, Draenei Warlocks, etc. some of those classes and races just don't mix. Others can be made to fit with existing lore.
For example, I have my own concepts for NE paladins and BE Druids that use existing lore as a basis. I've shared them with other RPers and lore lovers who usually have an agreement or two and we put together concepts and more ideas to make them better fitting to WoW's lore. However, sometimes it just can't be done.
Draenei Warlocks? Even less likely than Forsaken Paladins. Tauren Warlocks? Fat chance. Orc Paladins or Priests? Good luck.
Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Trying to shoehorn something into the game is bad. Blizzard could make it work, but would it be believable? Probably not. Tauren Priests/Paladins was done in an okay way (them being more "sun Druids," than anything), etc, etc. but like I said, sometimes it's okay and sometimes it isn't.
A lot of people are saying "no, only Sir Zeliek" etc.
However, there are examples of Undead Paladins throughout the game. In Icecrown for example you can see several Undead mobs using spells such as "Unholy Light", "Hammer of Injustice" and "Avenger's Shield".
Yes, lore-wise light burns Undead. However, Undead Paladins can still have the conviction needed to utilise their former light-given powers either by stealing them (as the Blood Elves do) or by sheer force of will, as Sir Zeliek and several other monsters display. Undead Paladins are not simply Death Knights either; a Death Knight is unique in that they are far less decayed than the average Undead (since they are very powerful necromantic beings, chosen for their prowess in life and thus aren't left dead for long) and have a heavy reliance on Runic powers to fuel their life-energy and powers. Undead Paladins would be perfectly viable both lore-wise (if we assume they are using Shadow Magic as Priests are, or are using similar powers to Sir Zeliek) and gameplay wise definitely would help with the variety of Paladins available.
It would be great to see more options for the Paladin class. They could even do some minortweaks to the spell graphics to display the difference in power-source for a Forsaken/Blood Knight/Silver Hand/Sunwalker... although for recognition's sake may wish to keep them all with the "yellow" spell graphics.
Last edited by mmoc4359933d3d; 2013-11-04 at 07:30 PM.