View Poll Results: SoO vs ToT raid quality

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  • SoO is better

    159 60.69%
  • SoO is worse

    42 16.03%
  • the same

    61 23.28%
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  1. #41
    I prefer SoO.

    Both instances have a bunch of bosses I've never even heard of before, but their presence makes sense to me in SoO. There's a large variety of bosses in ToT, and I don't really understand why they're there. A whole wing of creatures created and experimented on through Titan power, okay, but this is the first I'm actually seeing of nearly any of their kind (Primordius excluded; the entirety of the Troll wing doesn't even count because so many different factions of them are willing to hop on just about any villain's bandwagon). I didn't feel that the bosses were strongly tied to Lei Shen, at least not to the degree the SoO bosses seem.

    If that makes sense.
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  2. #42
    ToT wins IMO.

    - Less recycling of models, environments and mechanics.
    - Introduced Thunderforged items.
    - Thunder Isle added a lot more to the raid feel than changing the vale did for SoO.
    - Snails.
    - Even though Lei Shen was a recent addition to the WoW lore, I enjoyed killing him much more than Garrosh, who I had already effectively killed as part of the achievement "For the Alliance!"
    - Lei Shen's fight was better. Garrosh had some interesting mechanics but none of them felt particularly original. If I had to explain it briefly, it felt like I was fighting a Bastion of Twilight boss.
    - A bonus loot-piñata Boss.

    SoO tried really hard not to fall in the same bag as DS in terms of "reused places", and I admire that, but when the premises are "take back the vale" and "invade the city" there's really only so much you can do to avoid it.

    ToT will go down as a personal favourite. SoO isn't bad, it's just worse.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrus View Post
    Based on you saying these fights are apparently 'hard' and to complex, I believe the only right fight for you is where you stand still the entire time and nuke the boss.. sadly that are the most boring kind.

    On Protectors, try hitting 'v' once, is it really so hard to find the right one? when they have name tags, and the only time there will be so many mobs that you might have a problem finding one of the bosses, is doing Sun's intermission, and then the two mobs you need to focus down is at ranged and easily targeted.
    Actually that just makes it harder for me. I have a hard time reading with my vision. I need a bigger monitor and new glasses. AOE fights aren't that bad, but like I said I don't have good AOE on demand which just means I have lower dps, not that AOE is hard. The only fights I really struggle with are ones where I have to quickly get my bearings (like Malkorok, but since I have Malkorok helper, it doesn't matter now. But having to have addons for that is stupid), and Keepers due to my vision. Blackfuse is annoying because my raid awareness is too high, and something always catches my eye.

  4. #44
    Excellent fights, and really good difficulty scaling as you make your way through the raid.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Tayona View Post
    I hate SoO with my entire soul. Nothing makes me want to quit raiding more than SoO. Then again, raids have been boring since LK, I don't get the sense that things fit like they used to. I didnt really care for the Tortos encounter, but I loved the boss! I giant turtle blocking our way, its genius! Just like how I like Immerseus.

    Anyways, I think bosses for he most part have become too complex or annoying or just too busy. Do we really need to have addons to help us with specific bosses? aka Sha (terrace)/Malkorok. Protectors is a nightmare where I feel overwhelmed with trying to find the right damned target. Sha is annoying with its AOE on demand needed (and turn around!). Blackfuse needs to concentrate on one or two types of machinery. Garrosh is okay, at least I feel I can plan things for the most part.

    Jaina needed more of a presence (for alliance at least), very little of the fight took place in Org, and why exactly are we going through RFC? Honestly, there is only 8 bosses that I don't hate
    What add on is required for malkorok specifically? If you're referring to the one that marks the smashes for you then that's just laziness on your raids part. Macros can be made for markers.

    OT: I'm enjoying SoO more than I enjoyed ToT although both felt much better than t14

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  6. #46
    ToT because the whole zone was new, this is the 2nd final raid zone to have re-used graphics in it.

  7. #47
    Throne of Thunder.

    Better atmosphere, better fights overall.

  8. #48
    I quite like SOO, not an amazing raid but pretty decent. I can't speak with much high end experience though, just LFR and Flex.
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  9. #49
    Titan Arbs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Ontario, Canada
    I like ToT better, I wish I had better options to choose from though as I like both Raids, but I do feel ToT was much better in my opinion.
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  10. #50
    Elemental Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    getting a coffee
    ToT was better, but i still think the first tier (MSV/HoF & ToES) overall was a better overall tier than both SoO & ToT

    SoO being the worst unfortunately.
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  11. #51
    Stood in the Fire silver9172's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Twisting Nether
    I'm liking SoO a bit more than ToT. With ToT I didn't really feel that we HAD to be there. Yeah, Lei Shen was some big bad dude we heard about but that was it, we just heard about him. Garrosh though I feel that we have a reason to raid Org and take him out. All the shit he's done and we've seen him do. Much like LK where there was interaction with him before the raid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbsbear View Post
    I like ToT better, I wish I had better options to choose from though as I like both Raids, but I do feel ToT was much better in my opinion.
    I can relate to this, only the opposite. I think SoO is a better raid but they are both very good.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    ToT was better, but i still think the first tier (MSV/HoF & ToES) overall was a better overall tier than both SoO & ToT

    SoO being the worst unfortunately.
    I don't care for tiers that are split up into different instances :/ Overall, MoP has been a much better raiding experience than Cata though.
    <Carried> - Recruiting for Legion!

  12. #52
    I really like SoO, one of the best raids we've had since Ulduar.

  13. #53
    Warchief Felarion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    There are no early walls like horridon, also boss difficulity scales better than in ToT (for example twin consorts were joke compared to council of elders on heroic). Design wise it's not that bad but i expected something different.

    Also if we look at entire patch, it's not that great for me honestly. Im not fan of running wild in zones like Timeless Isle (Isle of Thunder was much better imo) and tier sets are just ugly, can't get used to titans inspired warrior set with some disco balls instead of Garrosh chains,spike and tusks style

    Stricly to raid instances they are more or less equal for me.

  14. #54
    TOT felt a lot bigger imo, SOO just lacked magnitude since Orgrimmar is puny even with all the dungeons compared to TOT.

  15. #55
    I cant really say. I have only done the first 8 bosses of SoO.

  16. #56
    Only issue I have with both ToT and SoO is the lack of choice in which order you kill the bosses, it's far too linear. Other than that both are awesome, with SoO possibly slightly ahead.

  17. #57
    SoO, definitely. Would've liked an optional boss path as people suggest where you might've been able to step into a wing and fight 1 out of 3 somewhat equally hard bosses to later progress to the next wing.

    It wouldn't have made sense for the lore though, so I understand why they didn't. (Also the fact that they got the difficulty of the encounters down pretty linear, where Galakras and Norushen would arguably be the two easier heroic fights)

    Regardless, I love everything with SoO, but it might be because we're having a lot better progress now. We're currently working on Juggernaut hc, so we're not hardcore by any means (9 hours/week), but our progress is already a lot better than it was in ToT when we raided 12 hours a week (3/13 hc).
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  18. #58
    High Overlord Ryerson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Liebchen View Post
    What i like about SoO:

    -Linear Progression... in ToT HC the difficulty scaling was terrible! It was more important to find out which bosses are the easier ones than actually progressing bosses. Horridon and Council were overtuned while Ji-kun and Tortos who came later in the instance were really easy. In SoO you could just kill all bosses from 1 to 14 in a fix order. Ok maybe Nazgrim is way easier than Dark Shamans but thats all. I also like that the first bosses are really easy and can be killed without too much preparation.

    -Flex Raiding... the raiding experience in Flex is much better than in LFR which i personally dont do anymore at all.

    -Many bosses can be played with LOTS of possible strategies. I always like it when bosses can be played in multiple ways. Blackfuse, Dark Shamans and Paragons are the best example.

    What i dont like:

    -Garrosh HC... overtuned like hell in 10man and its generally one of the worse fights in WoW. Ragnaros HC was difficult too but the fight was just epic and entertaining. Garrosh just feels like a pain in the arse, its not fun to do hundreads of pulls on a boss with bad design that isnt epic at all.

    -10man vs 25man balance generally... the first 8 Bosses may be easy in 10man but they are complete faceroll in 25man. The other bosses are easier in 25man too... i dont want to turn this into a 10man vs 25man thread but method killing garrosh hc with 100 trys while paragon needed 400 says all doesnt it? Thunderforged and Warforged gear has a way to big impact on the difficulty of bosses.
    I hate when the whole "Linear progression" arguement arises, because people act like it's never happened before! Let's think back a little, shall we? I personally think non-linear raid progression gives depth to an instance... It keeps progression longer, which I really liked in TOT. It's fun to see that some bosses coming up on heroic you can get more gear and go back to later, while you can jump ahead to more reasonable heroics (Qon, ji'kun, etc)

    In ICC, once you started heroic Modes you pretty much went (25man)
    -Gunship>Marrowgar>Festergut/Rotface>Princes>blood queen/Saurfang>Dreamwalker>Deathwhisper>Putricide>Sindragosa>LK

    Let's think Ulduar hardmodes!:

    Flame leviathen>Council (the medium guy>)>hodir>heartbreaker>thorim>freya>steelbreaker>vezax>mimiron>yogg

    Tier 11:

    Halfus>Magmaw>atre>chimaeron>twin dragons>council of 4 winds>omnitron>maloriak>nef>cho'gall>council>al'akir>sinestra (debatable, people will argue this list).

    These tiers all had weeks where if you didn't have the gear, you'd progress the boss on normal then push heroics later when they felt more reasonable. The only arguement I can see is that BWD wasn't linear at all, after you downed magmaw/tron you pretty much had 3 bosses to chose from...
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  19. #59
    SoO is better I guess. Numbers don't lie.

  20. #60
    I think both raids were quite good in terms of the encounters, but I preferred the Throne of Thunder aesthetic more. Not that it isn't fun to blast through Orgrimmar and then a cave complex, but I like the atmosphere and environment of Throne more.
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