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  1. #301
    No. Demon Hunters will never be a character class in WoW. People should just leave it, but it will never happen.
    Bigger than Life.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I don't see how that is possible when the defining characteristic of Demon Hunters was a melee fighter that could turn itself into a demon. Without that, Demon Hunters are just magic using melee no different than Enhancement Shaman or Death Knights. They bring nothing unique to the class lineup, and if anything makes the class lineup redundant.
    If this was a concern why bring DKs in when you had ret paladins and enhancement shaman? Oh because bringing DKs in made sense aka was thought to be cool, fit the current theme, players wanted it, and it made Blizzard money! Duh!

  3. #303
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kensim View Post
    So we are back to the potential of one or two shared/similar ability by your own admission? One that would be most likely a cooldown (or only used during) and not a main rotational ability? You think that would prevent Blizzard in doing what it wants? Really?
    Clearly Blizzard "wants" Demon Hunter abilities and attributes in the Warlock class.

    Btw I am not against a 4th spec for Warlock, however I don't think Warlocks prevent a dedicate demon hunter class. I would think something like Engineering would be more of a block to something like tinkerer than warlock to demon hunter.
    Which makes little sense. Engineering is a profession. Warlock is a class. The block to Demon Hunters is another class. Classes and professions don't serve the same purpose in the game. It also doesn't help your argument that NONE of the Tinker's WC3 abilities are present in Engineering. Meanwhile, the Demon Hunter's abilities are present in existing WoW classes.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by kensim View Post
    So we are back to the potential of one or two shared/similar ability by your own admission? One that would be most likely a cooldown (or only used during) and not a main rotational ability? You think that would prevent Blizzard in doing what it wants? Really?

    Btw I am not against a 4th spec for Warlock, however I don't think Warlocks prevent a dedicate demon hunter class. I would think something like Engineering would be more of a block to something like tinkerer than warlock to demon hunter.

    Regardless as usual Teriz you are so bias that it taints everything you say rendering your contributions worthless and meaningless.
    He's gone crazy anyway. Dont even bother responding to him. Hes lost all credibility when he started arguing that he never said tinker would be the next and final class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  5. #305
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    If you simplify things like that there's no way you could bring something unique to the class lineup anymore except new role like support.
    Mechanical class says hello.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    He's gone crazy anyway. Dont even bother responding to him. Hes lost all credibility when he started arguing that he never said tinker would be the next and final class.
    When did I say that?

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Djolisimo View Post
    No. Demon Hunters will never be a character class in WoW. People should just leave it, but it will never happen.
    And Pandaren were never going to be a race :P

    With time-travel and the burning legion being a heavy part of the expansion it is more than likely Illidan will train us up in the art of demon hunting.

  7. #307
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilgnomey View Post
    And Pandaren were never going to be a race :P

    With time-travel and the burning legion being a heavy part of the expansion it is more than likely Illidan will train us up in the art of demon hunting.
    At that point in time Illidan was imprisoned by Maiv Shadowsong.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Mechanical class says hello.

    - - - Updated - - -



    When did I say that?

    "Mechanically" (I crack myself up!) how would a mechanical class be any different from a warrior, rogue, or hunter (aka physical Dps classes)?

  9. #309
    Mechanical class says hello.
    What mechanical class will do? Shoot with gun? That's hunter. Summon something to fight? Warlock,Hunter. Tranform into something to tank? Druid. That's the result of simplifying.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    At that point in time Illidan was imprisoned by Maiv Shadowsong.
    Time-travel=everything will not be as you expect.

  10. #310
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kensim View Post
    "Mechanically" (I crack myself up!) how would a mechanical class be any different from a warrior, rogue, or hunter (aka physical Dps classes)?
    Warriors, Rogues, and Hunters don't use lasers, various robots, mechanical armor, mechanical devices, missiles, etc. to fight.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Warlocks learned metamorphosis just by watching Illidan. Most of Illidan's students could never reach that level of power. Furthermore, Illidan needed the skull of Gul'dan to maximize his demonic powers, Warlocks do it by default. In short, Warlocks at this point in WoW are about as powerful as Illidan was at Black Temple. Illidan is the most powerful DH on record, and NONE of his disciples even came close to his level of power.
    It's an easy mistake to make. You assume that "power" equals "magic". Which, for a warlock, is probably the case. Demon Hunters, AGAIN, are a melee combatant, who also use magic. There's also no reason to assume that locks are anywhere close to the power possessed by Illidan. Also note that locks are more than willing to accept magical aid from demons, but there's no reason to assume that demon hunters would to that degree.

    If we bring a Demon Hunter class into the game, there's no way they could have as much control over demonic magic as Warlocks because it cause the classes to clash too much. They won't be able to control demons, and they definitely can't manipulate Metamorphosis to the extent that Warlocks can.
    Of course they would have meta. Every fucking DH I played in WCIII had that. But no, they wouldn't wield magic to the same extent as a wizard, like the warlocks.

    In short, demonic magic powers Demon Hunters. Warlocks are more powerful than Demon Hunters in the realm of demonic magic, thus Warlocks are more powerful than Demon Hunters.
    Nope. Not even close.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Warriors, Rogues, and Hunters don't use lasers, various robots, mechanical armor, mechanical devices, missiles, etc. to fight.
    That's just aesthestic. DH fans will tell you that DH brings warglaive wielding warrior with the demon within theme.

  13. #313
    I may be in the minority but I do not want a new class. I would rather them give the current classes some love. They should dump Dev time into improving the "uniqueness" of classes not creating a new one.

  14. #314
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    That's just aesthestic. DH fans will tell you that DH brings warglaive wielding warrior with the demon within theme.
    Mechanical goes a bit beyond simple aesthetic. Mechanical beings have resistances that other types of units don't have, so a Robot minion will have different traits than an animal or demonic minion for example. Additionally, No class has an affinity towards the mechanical/technological side of the WoW universe, so overlap with other classes would be minimal to non-existent.

    DH fans can say what they like, but they can't get past the FACT that the Demon Hunter abilities are in other classes, and the Fact that Blizzard is going to be adding more DH/Illidan attributes to Warlocks in the future.

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    the Fact that Blizzard is going to be adding more DH/Illidan attributes to Warlocks in the future.
    Nice to see you working at Blizzard, how's the paycheck? I mean, since you seem to just know this, you must work at Blizzard? You're not just some fan who thinks he knows, are you? Because otherwise you know as little as the rest of us on what they're planning to do, and this sentence of yours will remain only a guess, so there's nothing factual about it. But yeah, you're a Blizzard employee, so I guess it's a fact.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormtrooperz View Post
    Because demonic powers really scream, "healing."

    Demon Hunters will just be obnoxious, everyone will want to be one, and the other classes will be left scarce for quite a while.

    Also, Blizz would never just give a specific weapon to a class and only that class, it would fall under the fist weapons category, and idk about you, but a demon hunter with bear paws doesn't seem very....correct.

    What I'm trying to get at is that Demon Hunters have way too many restrictions on them to allow a fluid class type, and if your answer is to just, "bend the lore," you're encouraging a huge discredit to the series just to fit your own selfish wants.
    You say demonic powers don't equal to healing yet we have void walkers who heal themselves and restore their hp, imps who singe magic, succubi who cc, and fel hunters/eyes who silence. The demons themselves are using magic. Some of that magic or ability is to heal itself or others.

    The lore isn't canon. They successfully and effectively retconned lore to establish horde paladins and alliance shaman. It's very easily done. And all these years we've gone without pandas and monks and then suddenly "poof" we have MoP and every race can be a monk.

    If you're blizzard and you make a popular class that "everyone wants to play" you're successful. It doesn't mean that everyone will roll it to 95 or 100 and raid/pvp with it right away. Many will some will not. That's successful. You're being selfish by calling it obnoxious. You're calling it something you may feel but i certainly don't.

    My selfish wants are what others also selfishly want. including you. you don't want DH because it's obnoxious or lore bending or something else. I want them because they fit. The concept/class played a large part in lore much more so than monks. yet we have monks and pandas.

    It's time especially if new lore is arriving with some kind of time, space, or alternate reality theme.

    And DHs have no more restrictions than any other class. Simply because Blizzard sets the restrictions and can easily remove the restrictions. I think it's just you placing those restrictions. Ultimately what you or I want doesn't matter. Blizzard will do what it deems is most healthy and profitable.

    I think DH is both healthy for the game and will make the game more profitable.

  17. #317
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfKnees View Post
    Nice to see you working at Blizzard, how's the paycheck? I mean, since you seem to just know this, you must work at Blizzard? You're not just some fan who thinks he knows, are you? Because otherwise you know as little as the rest of us on what they're planning to do, and this sentence of yours will remain only a guess, so there's nothing factual about it. But yeah, you're a Blizzard employee, so I guess it's a fact.
    They've been doing exactly that in every expansion since TBC. Why would they stop now?

  18. #318
    The Lightbringer Skayth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Allow me to preface this by saying that I would prefer demon hunter be its own hero class with three unique specs, unique tier gear, unique mechanics, class hub, quests, etc.

    They could also easily be given a unique playstyle and abilities while sharing traits of both the warlock and rogue class, the same way that paladins and death knights have priest and necromancer traits along with warrior traits.

    However, I certainly don't think that precludes the possibility of it instead being rolled into the warlock class.

    Void Ray, Carrion Swarm, and Immolation Aura all being melee-range abilities, Demonic Slash being a short-distance ranged attack, and Demonic Leap being a gap-closer all sort of counter that argument. Dark Apotheosis is meant to be used at melee range, plain and simple.

    Incidentally, you can also spec into Soul Link and Grimoire of Sacrifice, which lets you kill your demonic minion to buff yourself and gain access to one of its abilities (Felguard gives you Pursuit, Voidwalker gives you Shadow Bulwark, etc.), which makes the class feel even more like a Demon Hunter.

    That's absolutely not true. Demon Hunters being a 4th warlock spec has been widely debated since druids got their Guardian spec and the Glyph of Demon Hunting (Dark Apotheosis) was implemented.

    The fact remains that building the Glyph of Demon Hunting out into a full Demon Hunting spec (either tank or melee DPS) would not only be viable, but extremely easy. It would simply be a matter of swapping out a few more of the Demonology spec abilities for some new ones. From there, all they'd have to do is open up the class to night elves and introduce some cloth blindfolds and glaive-shaped spellblades.

    The biggest issue holding the concept back relates specifically to the idea of it being a tanking spec, and that's the fact that cloth doesn't have any tanking itemization and Blizzard almost certainly doesn't want to create a new item role or have any tanks rolling on caster or healer cloth gear. Of course, there are all sorts of solutions to that issue, as well.

    Now, if you look at the lore -- and there is very little verifiably canon demon hunter lore, as most of it comes from the tabletop RPGs -- Illidan, the first and foremost Demon Hunter, was previously a mage. He also relied heavily upon ranged casting both in WC3 and BC.

    If you do look at the tabletop RPGs, there's a whole lot of leeway because the RPGs used multiclassing, and Demon Hunter was a Prestige Class that required you to have at least a few levels as a caster class before you could even become one (likewise, the Metamorphosis ability temporarily improved your casting abilities). And of course, the RPG stated that any character could become a Demon Hunter, so long as their alignment was chaotic and they found a master. They don't really get much in the way of melee abilities in the RPGs, its more about augmenting their other class abilities.

    And for what it's worth, in WC3, Metamorphosis transformed Demon Hunters into ranged AoE damage dealers.
    See, thats the thing, a glyph is a glyph, thats it. It has no prevalence upon lore or status of a class at all or should be assumed towards anything, but, simple FUN. A priest turns his shadowfiend into a sha-ling, and all through out this expansion, it shows that noone can control the sha at all. Then a priest can also transform into a valkyr, an undead female Vykul servant of the Lich King (as only 7 total Valkyrs joined Sylvannas and thats it). Lets see, mages and their "new water elemental." Warlocks and their Verdant Spheres. Rogues and their axe throwing. You see what I am getting at. Glyphs, since MoP have been nothing but fun and never mandatory. So, trying to say "Glyph of Demon Hunting" is anything but fun is going to break the barriers of the game, by saying, Priests can control the Sha, and 5.1 showed us that not even hardened veterans can control the sha.

    Now, do not get me wrong, while I do think warlocks could be substitute for Demon Hunters, if they actually do the correct spec and retcon a lot of current lore, not to mention giving us all the anesthetics a Demon Hunter would have. But the problem I do have with it is how Warlocks are currently. Demonology is a fun spec, even though you need ilvl 570 now in order to be competent on single target dps, but that it. Its a fun spec. If they redesign demonology, yet again, they are going to lose more "warlock" players, a class that already has a low number of players. So, I doubt they will redesign any of the warlock trees in the current future, plus they just had a major overhaul, which did not bring as many players as they thought it would bring. Only it did when they saw how the Dps skyrocketed and was top till now.

    But adding a fourth spec to Warlocks, while not impossible, will cause major strife, unless they did it to a majority of classes, or just do it for the four pures to make them hybrids. Though, this is a discussion for another time to make the four pures hybrids, it has relevance to this. Demonology, in alpha, originally was going to become a tank spec, which fell through because it fell into the wotlk model of tanking and would have been OP, and was op in the beta, yet the concept still remained in the form of the glyph. Could they easily expand it a fourth spec? yes. But as it is currently, and if it supposed to replace Demon Hunters, I want nothing to do with it, as there is so much down time within it and drain life spamming, it does not feel like a demon hunter at all. Not to mention, swinging that damn staff. Then, ontop of us getting a fourth spec, at least 2 more specs would need to be handed to two other classes, at the least to show that they added an entirely new "class" to the game, as three specs make up a class.

    So, to break it down if they want Warlocks to be Demon Hunters, they would need to add a fourth spec, or completely redesign an existing spec and face losing more warlocks, and make it completely like a demon hunter, not to mention they will need to retcon a lot of lore, add a substantial amount of lore, and hope to god that they did not fk up, as most demon hunter players want to play both aspects of a demon hunter, the bulky demonic illidan and the blade wielding dps of demon hunters prior to corrupting themselves.


    Teriz, you realize that a Demonology Warlock is about using Demon's spells. Again, I will sum it up for you, because You have the WRONG idea of where Warlocks got their Immolation Aura. Doom = Pit Lord, Carrion Swarm = Dreadlord, Sleep = Dreadlord, Immolation Aura = Infernal/Abyssal. All these spells are from Existing demons. A demonology warlock studies demonic spells to further their power. Currently, we do not know where Chaos Wave, Touch of Chaos, and Void Ray comes from, though Void Ray could be of Observer origin in the form of Optical blast. So saying Immolation Aura ,herpderp, is Immolation from a demon hunter is stretching to far. Immolation is Immolation. Immolation Aura is Immolation Aura. If we want to get down and dirty with it. Immolation Aura burns the ground around your feet, while Immolation lights yourself on fire and burns those around. Completely different, just like Death coil vs death coil vs death coil ^.~

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Warriors, Rogues, and Hunters don't use lasers, various robots, mechanical armor, mechanical devices, missiles, etc. to fight.
    We can do this all day...depends on how you say it. All those classes use devices of varying complexity. Whether it is a bow or sword or plate armor (very intricate), they are just as much tools and or fabricated items, just like a laser gun. See same thing, total overlap!

  20. #320
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kensim View Post
    We can do this all day...depends on how you say it. All those classes use devices of varying complexity. Whether it is a bow or sword or plate armor (very intricate), they are just as much tools and or fabricated items, just like a laser gun. See same thing, total overlap!
    I guess you missed the previous post, so I'll reiterate; there's a huge difference between a Paladin wearing plate armor, using magic, and a weilding a sword, and an inventor using technology and various mechanical devices. It's like comparing Thor to Ironman.

    Demon Hunters and Warlocks have far more similarities than differences.

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