List of Crowd Control changes that should happen for the next Expansion.

[Korgoth]

So Blizzard wants to change CC to make PVP less retarded. They could start with the following:

All previously spammable CC, Poly/Fear/Cyclone/Hiber... now has a 20s CD.

Cheapshot now has a 20s CD.
Kidneyshot now has a 40s CD.
Shockwave and Stormbolt are now both on Tier 6 in the talent Tree.
Fists of Fury now only stuns on the first hit.
Paralytic Poison no longer stuns.
Counterspell can now only interrupt and no longer silences.
Interrupts, Disarms, Silences and Roots now last at most 4s and cannot be modified.


Disorienting Roar has been removed from the game.
Blind has been removed from the game.
Disrupting Shout has been removed from the game.
Freeze has been removed from the game.
Blood Horror has been removed from the game.
Scatter Shot has been removed from the game.
Blinding Light has been removed from the game.
Dragon's Breath has been removed from the game.


All Knockback effects now displace a max distance of 10 yrds.
All slows are now capped at 50%.
All CC now breaks on a target if that target takes damage equal to 40%+ of their health.
All AOE fears now have a 90s CD.
All fears now path target directly away from the caster and the target will stop moving when it can no longer move at that angle.
All CC now has a check performed 0.5s after landing, and if an effect is present that would negate that CC being applied, the CC is removed. (The Spell Reflect Clause)


What other CC changes can we come up with!

[Obby]

So Blizzard wants to change CC to make PVP less retarded. They could start with the following:

All previously spammable CC, Poly/Fear/Cyclone/Hiber... now has a 20s CD.

Cheapshot now has a 20s CD.
Kidneyshot now has a 40s CD.
Shockwave and Stormbolt are now both on Tier 6 in the talent Tree.
Fists of Fury now only stuns on the first hit.
Paralytic Poison no longer stuns.
Counterspell can now only interrupt and no longer silences.
Interrupts, Disarms, Silences and Roots now last at most 4s and cannot be modified.


Disorienting Roar has been removed from the game.
Blind has been removed from the game.
Disrupting Shout has been removed from the game.
Freeze has been removed from the game.
Blood Horror has been removed from the game.
Scatter Shot has been removed from the game.
Blinding Light has been removed from the game.
Dragon's Breath has been removed from the game.


All Knockback effects now displace a max distance of 10 yrds.
All slows are now capped at 50%.
All CC now breaks on a target if that target takes damage equal to 40%+ of their health.
All AOE fears now have a 90s CD.
All fears now path target directly away from the caster and the target will stop moving when it can no longer move at that angle.
All CC now has a check performed 0.5s after landing, and if an effect is present that would negate that CC being applied, the CC is removed. (The Spell Reflect Clause)


What other CC changes can we come up with!

i like how most of it is caster related you realise why for instance a frost mage has so many things? because casting frost bolt is impossible

expecially when melees have slows roots stuns gap closers silences and interupts all on different CDs......

[Itisamuh]

Okay, what exactly do you propose to do about healers, if all of that crowd control nerfing went into effect? Healing is a far bigger problem already, and nerfing the only ways to deal with them would make them even worse. Another thing to keep in mind is that some classes rely on that control more than others, so if you nerfed their control too much, you would have to buff them in other areas to compensate. Make no mistake, I think crowd control needs toned down too, but not so much at once and not for all classes equally.

[Korgoth]

i like how most of it is caster related you realise why for instance a frost mage has so many things? because casting frost bolt is impossible

expecially when melees have slows roots stuns gap closers silences and interupts all on different CDs......

What game are you playing. Mages barely cast as it is. The Ice Lance to FB ratio is like 5 to 1 at least now.

And a frost mage has all those things because of developer bias. Being overpowered every season doesnt just happen.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, what exactly do you propose to do about healers, if all of that crowd control nerfing went into effect? Healing is a far bigger problem already, and nerfing the only ways to deal with them would make them even worse. Another thing to keep in mind is that some classes rely on that control more than others, so if you nerfed their control too much, you would have to buff them in other areas to compensate. Make no mistake, I think crowd control needs toned down too, but not so much at once and not for all classes equally.

Flatout nerf healing. You argue CC is so high because of healing and healers argue healing is so high because of CC, well healing is ez to nerf. I'd increase health by 500%, Increase healing by 50% and increase damage by 100%. Then PVP would be gradual instead of spike, which was what the Devs were saying they wanted back before Cata.

[pkm]

Are health pools still rising next expansion? And with these changes, killing someone would be rather difficult with like 1m health pools.

[walkingtall]

A good start, as a baseline, would be to remove every bit of CC added in MoP, especially the delivery method. It needs to be harder than a single button most of the time. Even scatter / trap is too easy because of the ranged component. Make using CC a choice not the automatic go to that it is for everyone right now and make it more avoidable. Even add some risk to it so that it's not 100% certain.

Lower the dispel cooldown so players can remove more of it.

Make it more avoidable in some way by adding a cast time or some mechanic like kiting over a trap. Ring of Frost is kind of interesting now because of the delay.

Shorten the trinket cooldown.

They also need to lower the interrupts. Right now all healers need to have a ton of instant cast healing because you simply can't cast any more. As a shaman I drop totems, riptide, earth shield, and maybe an occasional fast cast if I get some distance. The rest of the time I'm just a pinata, sometimes I'm a tough one, but I'm a pinata nonetheless.

It's all just way, way, too much and way, way too easy to apply.

[Iyarashii]

Just change spamable cc to have a 10second cooldown and 2/3rd's of the normal duration. If you took out blind and made cheapshot have a cooldown and kidney shot have a longer one you would destroy the class, like it would be the worst class by far.

[Abysal]

Simplify the DR table as follows:

1. Total loss of control doesn't break on damage.
2. Total loss of control breaks on damage.
3. Silence/Spell School lockout
4. Partial loss of control (Disams, roots, slows, knockbacks etc.)
5. Short duration CCs (2s or less).

This alone would greatly reduce the power of chain CCing without having to change a single ability or remove anything.

After that: Spamable CCs that cause loss of control may not have a duration longer than 4s. Instant Cast CCs with long durations may not have a CD shorter than 1 minute.

[Korgoth]

Are health pools still rising next expansion? And with these changes, killing someone would be rather difficult with like 1m health pools.

You mean the item squish? They'd just move the demical point over. So 5x, go from 500k to 2.5M, then move over the decimal point so its 25k.

[Flaks]

Here's a better one:

Shockwave and stormbolt are removed from being accessible by arms and fury. No, no throwdown added either.

Asphyxiation removed.

Cheap shot and kidney shot max stun durations reduced slightly. Rogues keep blind. Honestly what the eff is with that change. Remove prep though.

Intimidating shout now appropriately breaks on any damage outside of deep wounds or bloodbath ticks unless the target is absorbing the damage. All other fear thresholds should now also work properly as well.

Frost ward talent removed for mages. Ring of frost cd greatly increased.

Force of nature can no longer root. All root effects have been reduced by half.

Deep freeze duration reduced to 3 seconds. Cold snap removed.

Druid talented cc all removed.

Paralytic poison removed. Shivving crippling poison now roots targets.

All zero-cost slows removed from the game (except crip). Paladin and druids no longer have access to ANY slows due to their snare immunities.

Blinding light removed from ret's arsenal.

Warlock cc talent tier all made spec exclusive. Other talents such as blood horror completely removed.

Monk spinning stun kick and other talented stuns removed.

Psyfiend removed. Dominate mind baseline for priests.

Can't believe I forgot hunters: remove the entirety of the cc tier from hunters as well. Traps are already insanely hard and never guaranteed to work so they're fine as is. Scatter is fine too. Wyvern sting too.

IF the above happened, then I'd more than ok with 15-20 second cds on polymorph and fear.

[Korgoth]

Rogues keep blind. Honestly what the eff is with that change.

Because Sap ---> Cheap ----> Blind is way to easy and way too powerful of an opener for a single class. Too many instant CCs. Rogues have so much CC they just hold blind until someone trinkets. They can stand to lose it.

[apepi]

Are health pools still rising next expansion? And with these changes, killing someone would be rather difficult with like 1m health pools.

They are doing the squish, we will not have high health. CC are important, I just think we need more ways to stop or get out of it.

[Flaks]

Because Sap ---> Cheap ----> Blind is way to easy and way too powerful of an opener for a single class. Too many instant CCs. Rogues have so much CC they just hold blind until someone trinkets. They can stand to lose it.

I'll beg to differ simply because my proposed changes attempt to bring classes back to their original archetypes.

Rogues are cc champs, they shouldn't be going toe to toe with things like they were in 4.3 or 5.2 but neither should they be killing things in half a shadow dance. Arms warriors are mobile juggernauts, they shouldn't be having access to so much cc and neither should they be stacking cds out the wazoo like they and every other classes do now. CD stacking should remain a ret staple, but ret shouldn't have so much control and neither should it have a slow.

[Wow]

Cheapshot now has a 20s CD.
Kidneyshot now has a 40s CD.
Shockwave and Stormbolt are now both on Tier 6 in the talent Tree.
Fists of Fury now only stuns on the first hit.

So you're making resource costing stuns that also require melee range have long cd's.
But not touching the 3 20-30y range 4-6sec 30sec cd resource free stuns...
Fists of fury just needs the ring of frost treatment if stunned by it you are immune to it. Only do it that why because if the rng dodge and parry are still there it needs to work off any tick.

Disorienting Roar has been removed from the game.
Blind has been removed from the game.
Disrupting Shout has been removed from the game.
Freeze has been removed from the game.
Blood Horror has been removed from the game.
Scatter Shot has been removed from the game.
Blinding Light has been removed from the game.
Dragon's Breath has been removed from the game.

So why isn't intimidating shout on this list? because it looks like you want melee to be just stuns and interrupts.
If scatter goes you'd have to make traps work like poly.


Overall its a ok list it just has little to much bias in it.

[Iyarashii]

Because Sap ---> Cheap ----> Blind is way to easy and way too powerful of an opener for a single class. Too many instant CCs. Rogues have so much CC they just hold blind until someone trinkets. They can stand to lose it.

Cause we haven't been able to do that for entirety of wow, and CS and KS were put on the same DR too.

[Zallex]

Remove all instant CC from the game.

All the rest should have a CD

[Sin Cara]

All I get from this thread is someone who gets rocked by rogues.

[Crruor]

Am i the only one who things more cc is a good thing and less cc is dumb? Lots of cc and cc chains means you have to show skill to play and even if you fuck up in one second you have a chance at winning, your partners need to peel for you and your healer needs to be good or you will die in a cc chain. More cc means a higher skill cap. All im getting from this thread is some warrior who wants to go in, cc once every 30 seconds and kill by just doing more damage then the other team.

[Korgoth]

So why isn't intimidating shout on this list?

Because Intim Shout with its 90s CD isnt comparable. The stuns are, so I removed one of them by placing them on the same talent tier. Post changes here wars would have 1 stun, shockwave or stormbolt, 1 aoe fear, disarm and 1 interrupt.

- - - Updated - - -

All I get from this thread is someone who gets rocked by rogues.

All I get from this post is you're a rogue. Change is coming.

[Theed]

The most important things that needs to happen are less instants, cast time slows removed and interrupts reduced/nerfed.