I know what the whole thing says, but you didn't post the whole thing, hence my commenting on "that snippet".
As we've been over a dozen times, we simply do not know what did and did not happen. You assume that you know what happened because you so easily dismiss older lore without any form of consideration outside of what your own thinking.
I mean, what's to say that the titan (or whoever) that wrote the data entries knew what happened and is actually accurate? Same with the books. Do we consider that the data provided ingame is provided from their viewpoint or from a factual "this is what happened" viewpoint?
As you yourself have posted there, the old gods were on the planet before the titans even came. So you are now using a source you've discredited as too old to suit your own means?
Draenei or Faceless Ones. Both of which may have existed before the titans arrival to Azeroth.
That's ok then, rest of my point still stands though.
That is a valid point. If you want to go that route, the in-game books are canonically written by unknown authors of dubious reliability. Tribunal is a Titan database created contemporary to the Titans being on Azeroth. Titans and their constructs have no reason to lie. Archivum and Algalon are brutally honest and straight up say the Titans are going to murder everything on the planet if his analysis returns a bad result.
I guess I oversimplified in my previous statement of "downright dismissing" the WC3 lore. I meant I'm dismissing the parts that are inconsistent with newer lore. Like how Sargeras and the Betrayal is still accurate except for the specific parts that were retconned by newer lore.
Trying to reconcile the various sources has gaping holes:
The Titans stumbled across Azeroth, then fought and imprisoned the Old Gods beneath the surface of the world (Tribunal says containment happened after Curse of Flesh). Then they seeded the planet with their constructs and set up the terraforming before leaving (WC3 lore says the Titans remained until the terraforming was complete). As the Earthen were doing their job deep underground, near to where the Old Gods were imprisoned, they became infected by the Curse of Flesh. The Titans came back to try to destroy the Old Gods completely, but found out this would be bad for Azeroth (for some reason they didn't discover this when they killed Y'Shaarj during the war). They strengthened the prisons, made new constructs, set up the Aspects, and left again.
Where there is contradiction, new lore trumps old lore.
Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-11-04 at 12:50 PM.
Trolls > High Elves > Blood Elves / Night Elves (Nelves pretty common to pre-sundering Helves) > Worgen (see below)
Earthen > Dwarves / Troggs
Titan Machinations > Gnomes
Various Titan Constructs > non-elemental Giants / Vykrul > Humans (debatable) > Worgen (see below) / Forsaken (not an evolution, but still a step away)
Tauren > Yaungol / Taunka
common bear-like ancestor > Furbolg / Pandaren
Eredar > Draenei (not really an evolution, but still a step away)
Goblins (?) - similar home and beginnings as trolls, evolved at an accelerated rate while enslaved by trolls, took over, not sure on common ancestor
Orcs are rumored to share a similar ancestor with gronn and ogres.
Worgen come from another dimension and most remaining are infected Azerothian races (nelves, humans)
There's a flow chart somewhere online that gives decent evolutionary trees about most of the races but I can't be bothered to find it at the moment. The point of all this is to give a little info on how some of the races can be so much older. Based on what I remember from said chart and various other little readings, I'm guessing either the trolls or the draenei / eredar are the eldest of all.
Last edited by Redlokyldoreifanggore; 2013-11-04 at 12:47 PM.
"If I didn't have bad luck I'd have no luck at all."
On Azeroth? Trolls.
Playable in game? Draenei
Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it.
Sovereign
Mass Effect
I think this is it then:
Injured Night Elf Priestess says: BY THE LIGHT OF ELUNE! Eredar! Cursed demons, what have you done to me? I have not come alone, we will fight you as we have in the past! I...
Injured Night Elf Priestess falls back into a coma.
Anchorite Fateema says: Man'ari... But how... We are not eredar! She must know! If there are others like her, we must find them and explain...
- - - Updated - - -
They are still similar enough that even a Legion Eredar can pass as a Draenei:
Sironas is an eredar... I mean, yes, obviously.
Obviously. How else could she infiltrate their ranks and pass as a draenei? She has been living among them for a very long time.
Draenei, since some still remember Argus as it used to be... 25k years ago.
Trolls next, as they're one of the first races on Azeroth.
Though it's difficult to class them as a "race" - the bronze dragonflight. They are as old as time itself.
I'd say it's going to be a "tie" between Draenei and Trolls, where we don't really know which one is the oldest of the two. Trolls are the oldest Azeroth-native race. Modern Night Elves actually descended from them. We know the Earthen were around when the Sundering happened, but they weren't the same Dwarves we know today.
We don't know exactly how old the Draenei are. The events on Argus where Velen escaped with his group happened 25,000 years ago, but we don't know how old Velen was at THAT time. He was in a position of power at the time, so he was at least old enough for that.
I was wondering about Orcs too. Wowpedia says "The orcs of Draenor had lived in a noble shamanistic society, roaming in tribes the grasslands of Nagrand on their dusty world of Draenor, for over 5,000 years." But I can't find a source for that 5,000 number other than Wowpedia. Tauren were around during the War of the Ancients, but I can't find anything else in the timeline before that mentioning Tauren.
Not sure. I think the OP was referring to playable races though.
Last edited by Ciddy; 2013-11-04 at 02:25 PM.
On first thoughts, I was torn between Draenei and Orcs, but went with the former, as they crash-landed on Draenor (in Oshu'gun, yeah?). And then after looking at the timeline on wowpedia, and being torn about how long the Orcs were on Draenor for, I'm not tooo sure, but I'd hazard a guess at Draenei.
without a doubt it has to be either draenei or troll, but there is no definitive date of origin for either.
.
When someone asks you if you're a god, YOU SAY 'YES'!
We don't know how long the Trolls have been around. Could be easily 25k years, there isn't much history on way back then. So either Trolls or Draenei. But with current lore it cannot be known.
In talking with Velen, K'ure refers to others as "younger races" it's unclear if he's including eredar in that statement. If he's not, then the eredar would be considered an older race on the universal scale.
"How?" Velen had raged once, "How is my life more important, worthier, than theirs?"
The gathering is slow, K’ure had admitted. But it continues. There are other Naaru like me, who are reaching out to the younger
races.
Also, the orcs appear to be a younger race on Draenor. The Arakkoa being an ancient race that founded the long extinct Apexis civilization.
EDIT: The TBC Bestiary says: "The eredar are one of the oldest known races in the universe."
Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-11-04 at 07:29 PM.
Titans are the oldest.
For the Horde!