Lets be honest, WoW's in its current state is...

[fengosa]

It used to be WORLD of Warcraft.

Now it's just "Shove everyone to the latest raid tier ASAP and get them on the gear treadmill" Craft.

MoP had plenty of end game content in the open world. Golden vale, 5.1, isle of thunder, giants, zandalari warbringers, battlefield barrens and timeless isle. That's without counting things like brawlers guild, proving grounds and the celestial tourney.

[warlocx]

I stopped playing for some time. And now i'm logging to have some fun with friends, trying instances off your level without a healer or tank can be quite challenging

[LeperHerring]

You didn't need to kill a single boss in MC to do BWL either. And just about every other raid from vanilla to now could be skipped. Get a clue.

Seriously? You're just continuing to display your ignorance of the game and your inability to comprehend simple english? I did 5 mans in vanilla, I started raiding in TBC. Which part of that is confusing you?

[Marema]

I don't care about "fulfilling maximum PVE potential". I care about progression raiding. I want to raid 3 nights per week, one farm raid, two progression raids. I want to wipe two weeks on a normal boss and a month on a raid end boss. I want there to be one size, one mode, one way to kill a boss and I want to be required to kill it before being able to move to the next boss. The closest to that was TBC and it was by far the most enjoyable gaming experience I've ever had, the current WoW is just mind numbingly dull.

So basically you want to live in the hell that was BC raiding. Good thing that Blizzard and most of us have grown up.

Hope you find a game that you can bang your head against.

[Orcindauh]

No. Again, why are you commenting if you have no clue about the game? Vanilla didn't have 5 man heroics, they came in TBC and I'm not okay with them for the very same reason I'm not okay with multiple modes in raids.

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I don't care about "fulfilling maximum PVE potential". I care about progression raiding. I want to raid 3 nights per week, one farm raid, two progression raids. I want to wipe two weeks on a normal boss and a month on a raid end boss. I want there to be one size, one mode, one way to kill a boss and I want to be required to kill it before being able to move to the next boss. The closest to that was TBC and it was by far the most enjoyable gaming experience I've ever had, the current WoW is just mind numbingly dull.

Why do you want it to be one difficulty? You do realize you never have to step foot in flex/LFR? You can spend weeks wiping on heroic SoO, nothing is stopping you.

You bitch about not being able to progress in raids yet you have yet to step foot in heroic content.

You bitch about multiple modes in raids yet you don't even have to step foot in half of them.

You bitch about not being able to spend weeks wiping on a boss yet you have yet to step foot in heroic content.

You're just complaining just to complain.

[Marema]

Seriously? You're just continuing to display your ignorance of the game and your inability to comprehend simple english? I did 5 mans in vanilla, I started raiding in TBC. Which part of that is confusing you?

Okay. You didn't need to kill a single boss in Kara to do SSC/TK after they removed attunments. That clear enough for you? You didn't need to kill a single boss in SSC/TK to get into BT. That even more clear enough for you? You seem to have a fascination on needing to clear a TX boss before you move onto TX+1 but that has never been the case. Apparently I need to speak more slowly for you to understand that.

[LeperHerring]

So basically you want to live in the hell that was BC raiding. Good thing that Blizzard and most of us have grown up.

You don't like that kind of raiding? That's fine, you don't have to do it. But why do you not want to let me and my friends have that kind of content? And the WoW audience has decidedly regressed, not grown up. It seems to be a bunch of kids throwing crying fits if they are not handed everything for no effort.

[Orcindauh]

Seriously? You're just continuing to display your ignorance of the game and your inability to comprehend simple english? I did 5 mans in vanilla, I started raiding in TBC. Which part of that is confusing you?

The irony in the post lol.

[LeperHerring]

Okay. You didn't need to kill a single boss in Kara to do SSC/TK after they removed attunments. That clear enough for you? You didn't need to kill a single boss in SSC/TK to get into BT.

I have bolded the key point for you. That was Blizzard's first massive mistake and what started the steady slide of WoW into failure.

[fengosa]

No. Again, why are you commenting if you have no clue about the game? Vanilla didn't have 5 man heroics, they came in TBC and I'm not okay with them for the very same reason I'm not okay with multiple modes in raids.

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I don't care about "fulfilling maximum PVE potential". I care about progression raiding. I want to raid 3 nights per week, one farm raid, two progression raids. I want to wipe two weeks on a normal boss and a month on a raid end boss. I want there to be one size, one mode, one way to kill a boss and I want to be required to kill it before being able to move to the next boss. The closest to that was TBC and it was by far the most enjoyable gaming experience I've ever had, the current WoW is just mind numbingly dull.

Ok, join a heroic raiding guild? There's no reason you can't have that experience just don't expect Blizzard to force your expectations on flex quality raiders.

[Orcindauh]

I have bolded the key point for you. That was Blizzard's first massive mistake and what started the steady slide of WoW into failure.

Attunments were pointless and not fun in the first place. I don't see how Blizzard "failed" when removing them.

[LeperHerring]

Why do you want it to be one difficulty? You do realize you never have to step foot in flex/LFR? You can spend weeks wiping on heroic SoO, nothing is stopping you.

Funnily enough I am aware of that. And I tried it. And it doesn't work and it's not enjoyable.

You bitch about not being able to progress in raids yet you have yet to step foot in heroic content.
You bitch about multiple modes in raids yet you don't even have to step foot in half of them.
You bitch about not being able to spend weeks wiping on a boss yet you have yet to step foot in heroic content.

I cleared almost all heroics from WotLK to Cata when I was playing.

You're just complaining just to complain.

Complaining just to complain? Why would I do that? I'm not playing the game, I'm just explaining why I (along with most of my friends) left the game.

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Attunments were pointless and not fun in the first place. I don't see how Blizzard "failed" when removing them.

They made the progression linear. Removing them removed that linearity, meaning that you no longer had to clear end bosses. The immediate effect was that most guilds that hadn't killed Vashj and Kael by that point just skipped them entirely, and missed out on the two best fights in TBC.

[fengosa]

I have bolded the key point for you. That was Blizzard's first massive mistake and what started the steady slide of WoW into failure.

Please don't pretend that anyone liked atunements or that they were good for the game. Story can be told a number of different ways.

[Alvito]

http://wowsnatch.com/wp-content/plug...%2Byounkin.jpg

Just check the link. It's more than obvious how Cata/Mop destroyed the game.

Based on that Wrath made it better then anything before, yet when people bring up issues of the game they were features of Wrath.

[Marema]

You don't like that kind of raiding? That's fine, you don't have to do it. But why do you not want to let me and my friends have that kind of content? And the WoW audience has decidedly regressed, not grown up. It seems to be a bunch of kids throwing crying fits if they are not handed everything for no effort.

You do have that kind of raiding. Heroic raiding. You and your friends can do that content all you want.

[Henno]

Is there a chance closing this thread? I would like to see the heads of idiots explode here. The whole discussion is based on an asshole who can not raid. Why dont you Idiots raid Siege of Orgrimmar?

There is zero chance that the game will change in your favor. Iam sorry.

[LeperHerring]

Ok, join a heroic raiding guild? There's no reason you can't have that experience just don't expect Blizzard to force your expectations on flex quality raiders.

I was running a heroic raiding guild. It died, just like every other 25 man guild on my realm due to Blizzard idiotic "hey let's give the same rewards for half the effort" raid model in Cata. Heroic raiding does not give the same progression experience as TBC raiding did. It's challenging, sure, but it's not linear progression and just feels like a boring grind.

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You do have that kind of raiding. Heroic raiding. You and your friends can do that content all you want.

No. How many time do I need to explain the difference between heroic raiding and TBC raiding? Seriously, try reading and spend a few minutes trying to comprehend what you've read instead of trolling.

[Marema]

I have bolded the key point for you. That was Blizzard's first massive mistake and what started the steady slide of WoW into failure.

That was the best thing they did to this game you mean. Do you want to go back and do heroic MSV/TeS before you can go into heroic SoO? No? Didn't think so.

[fengosa]

I was running a heroic raiding guild. I died, just like every other 25 man guild on my realm due to Blizzard idiotic "hey let's give the same rewards for half the effort" raid model in Cata. Heroic raiding does not give the same progression experience as TBC raiding did. It's challenging, sure, but it's not linear progression and just feels like a boring grind.

Realistically if you're playing the game the entire expansion you do the raids in order anyways? I don't see why forcing some people to do what most are already doing matters.

[Raysz]

I agree mostly with the OP. And to the people that say 'if you don't like it, why don't you play another game?' , I can say, there are a number of good reasons why WoW's been losing subs over the last couple of years. I see those kind of remarks quite a lot, similar one is 'How does it affect you when someone else stops playing?'. If enough people stop playing, it does affect me.
The opening post contains some of those reasons I think the sub numbers are down.

Blizzard has said that the game starts at level cap and that levelling shouldn't be hard. Should it be mind-numbingly easy then?