1. #1

    Resto Druid help - Haste vs Mastery in Heroic progress

    Hello guys..!!
    I know there are many post between Haste - Mastery for resto druid in this site and also many other sites with same post.
    But I would like to ask something more specific.
    Well let's start..!!
    My name is Áco - Stormscale due to forum restriction (to see the items I have now - dont look my stats atm will explain below)
    So let's say iam pve player in the days of ToT Normal 12/12 and 5/12h Heroic (because i return to back to wow when 5.2 was up already). The days of TOT when I had enough items with Haste, I chose to play with 6562 haste brake point - about 15K spirit (for HC progress) - rest sockets mastery - intellect. And I think it worked quite well in ToT HC progress (with holy pala - disc priest - me was combo with healers)
    The new patch has arrived (SOO progress start and I was about 543ilvl well enough to start progress, I believe)
    We start progress again with same combo (holy pala - disc priest - resto druid) but because I think I had already begun to find my old self at wow (iam playing druid from TBC with good exp to raids and also with good rating in arena) and because holy pala was good after cleaning soo normal with 3 healer combo we changed in 2 healer combo. Because I got quite items with Haste I tried to play with 13163 haste brake point - about 15K spirit - 23% mastery. For the first 5 boss worked well, After three weeks HC progress we are at 5/14 clear. Last night we try Shamans and we chose strategy with 3 tanks. So I went to the group with both tank (Dk-Pala) and pala stay down with rest 6 ppl (Tank monk- 2 Melee - 3 Range) When we started progress the boss I had some problems with mana and BECAUSE i was away from Ele shaman and lose 5% haste buff, 13163haste with out 5% buff dont work so i wanted more haste for get brake point and I had trouble with my mana, so i change a few gems from haste to spirit - intellect and mastery. Started better without trouble with my mana and everything runs smoothly. BUT when Shamans began to make all their skill my heal was not enough for to stand with my dots only and if resto druid start spam heal oom incoming :P ( 2 tanks was fine)

    So I want to ask because I think with 2 good healer (I mean can understand the mechanical quite easily) you can clear SOO, hc except Thok :P, with Holy pala to be the second healer and with boss starting to become difficult. What to choose to play: Full mastery with 3k or 6.5k haste OR 13K haste? I'd love to see your opinions what stats to choose to play with 2 man heal.

  2. #2
    Field Marshal
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    13k haste is always best IMO. If you're going OOM, your tanks are messing up or you're spamming too hard. Try to find areas where you can conserve more (such as when tank stacks are low) ... use more mushroom bloom, try different talents (maybe treeform), etc... 15k spirit with 13k haste is more than enough (I run 12.5k spirit or less and we 2 heal everything except thok). Make sure you're popping Ironbark and Barkskin like they're going out of style. Use innervate ASAP when your mana starts dropping so it's up more in the fight.

  3. #3
    Well, lets first set some things straight, the gain from haste break points between 3k and 13k (namely the 6.6k one) is pretty much a waste. If you play with SotF it becomes even more of a waste as it doesnt really do anything at that point (sotf point is 5.7k).

    Deducted from what you wrote I think you are raiding 10man. When 2healing 10man I found mastery to be a lot better. As the one of two healers available, your cooldowns matter more, and the biggest cooldown you have (argueably), is tranquility. It becomes 20+% stronger (accounted for extra hot in hot build) when you are built for mastery instead.

    From my own experience, one of the biggest problems with mastery build is the strict gear discipline. If you are "unlucky"; and you receive suboptimal items, you'll end up overcapping, effectively wasting offstats. If your gear allows you to stay very close to 3043 +- 50 then you'd probably want to look at going mastery for a 2 heal 10man healing setup.

    Right now I'm built for haste, but thats because I'm running 25man hc progress. There is a very noticeable difference in the "average hit" on most spells, as they are all 20% below where I was with mastery build, the reason the math works out to a pretty equal hps situation for the two is the added ticks gained from haste build.

    My recommendation would be to run mastery as long as you wont waste a ton of secondaries trying to push down to 3k cap, and this comes from personal experience with both builds in 10man.

    Btw how come you didnt search the forums first? There are numerous threads on the subject, but they all look like derivations of each other.

    Sooner or later the hasteguy will come, albeit he has NEVER played mastery in SoO he will swear by his build, the equivalent on the other side, the masteryguy will also make an appearance, and try to convince you that mastery is way to go even tho he has never tried haste. Some of those guys doesnt even raid, but enjoy stirring stuff up after having read numbers made in EJ thread. On the subject of EJ, couple of hours later you'll have the people who lurk EJ thread and copypasta the final product numbers over here, and they'll try to convince you that purely mathematical you should be running with 4set t15 because the 4p has mad synergy with haste build, and you'll end up with a TON of additional healing (altho non of these guys will tell you that most if not all of the mathematical vantage this combo has, lies in the latter half of the ticks, and lets face it, you'll rejuv someone with a healing deficit of 2-3 ticks and be fine with it, as resto druids, overhealing comes with the game, but theres nothing wrong with raising our flags in favor of a build that contributes even further to the overhealing problem, right?). I also expect that someone at this very writing moment is about to critizise your wall of unformatted text, but you shouldn't feel too bad about it, as the fun is on all of us for actually having deciphered it.

    Welcome to mmoc. Source of very little actual information, but god damn it, we've got the discussions of a thousand seas and more.
    ^ I agree with this.

  4. #4
    my opinion is based on each fight, in SoO, and I haven't seen all of heroic, but I'd say for the most part 13k is about equal to 3k until very high levels of gear and 6k is pretty weak (rejuv is too much of our healing at this point to bother with 6k)

    mastery also starts too fall off in like full heroic gear just because of our mastery's linear scaling

    however, just each has it's advantages, haste can save person about to die faster and get more healing from efflo and rejuv as well as more omen procs for weaker regrowths

    while mastery can get more from bloom, regrowth, and wild growth

    anyways, just go with what's easy for you to pull off in your gear, usually you'll either be reforging off almost all haste to stay at 3k or gemming in a ton of it to hit 13k

    also haste has a couple extra advantages in 10s just because your efflo and cast time heals get really fast for saving people near death

    honetly, just stick to what you're comfortable with until you either get too many or too few haste pieces or start having trouble on a boss and maybe need a change to see if it helps

    - - - Updated - - -

    also, another note, a lot of which build ends up working better for you has to deal w/ the rest of your healing team, their classes, and their play-styles and how that effects your possible overhealing

  5. #5
    A safe rule of thumb is if you can get to the 13k haste breakpoint without forgoing socket bonuses and having to gem pure haste in every slot then go for it. It is def a throughput increase once you get the gear.

  6. #6
    the 6k breakpoint is simply useless, the 3k is the way to go until you got the gear to go 13k haste. Also if you are able to go for the 3k cap you will often have issues going for the 13k cap. If you are though, consider doing it if you can do it without losing out on too many socket bonuses, and pure haste gems.

  7. #7
    If you can stay at 3k haste, then stay at 3k haste. If you're stuck with a lot of excess haste even if you reforge it all away, go for 13k haste. If you have to break socket bonuses to reach 13k haste, you really need to re-read the previous sentence and reconsider your definition of "a lot". No other bonuses are really worth caring about, unless you're less than a few hundred points from them anyway.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  8. #8
    We 2 heal Thok hc with 1 tank, got him to 2% when I was healing with our priest this sunday and yesterday we got the kill. We also 3 heal shaman, 2 healers with the 2 tank group. We also move 1 melee to the 2 tank group, to make it easier to heal.

    And yes, Im the "haste guy". I switched for shamans hc. Im currently at 13.5k spirit with the 13k hbp, Im at 551 ilvl using 4 T15, only have 2 parts of T15. I never run completely oom, does get very low on Malkorok hc but who doesn't . As long as you manage your innervate properly and know when to drink your mana pot you should do alright. I like the 13k hbp because it challenges me at the moment to be more effective when I heal and I feel that my heals are more efficient now, my throughput has gone up with atleast an overall 5-10%. My advice is that you test it some more and find out for yourself.

    I agreee with Ryklin. For me, in the setup I play and the people I play with I noticed a huge difference when I swapped to haste. Try it out on different fights and find out what works for you. You can argue that the one is better than the other based on different calculations but it comes down to what fits you best. Either you prefer the 20% stronger tranq or 1.1 second regrowths.

    Depending on your setup, try it and see how it works. Good luck!
    Last edited by Laggaiskogen; 2013-11-06 at 09:33 AM.

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