November 4 - Even More LFR Nerfs

[Zantos]

Im not surprised. Its LFR. You're lucky as is to have everyone there and not afk on the fight, let alone people actually caring enough to play their class right. The vast majority of players in LFR just don't care. They don't know their class, wont learn their class, and don't care if they die or not on the boss. Determination only helped that because now if they die, they will just get a buff so they can care even less. LFR is sadly not the place where mechanics can be around. There are just too many people in the group. You cannot possibly pick out all the slackers and remove them. Especially when it takes so many people agreeing to do so.

[Glorious Leader]

No some people are just stupid and don't understand fight, and then there is some people who are running their alts and because they ran it so many time already they feel they should be carry.

Could be that some people are just "stupid". I imagine however they would fair much better in Vanilla Warcraft. Press one button and barely have to move.

[Normie]

Even if you no longer play or don't do LFR, it's just funny to see when they make announcements like this:

Honestly, just mail people the potential bags/loot they would've won instead of making them do the raid at this point. Siege of Orgrimmar was brilliant, the mechanics were brilliant and it was a great raid. Just because a few bad players who haven't adapted to you know basic concepts such as moving out of AoE started complaining, they felt that these constant barrages of nerfs are necessary...

They don't nerf LFR because they're trying to make it so easy that even an MMO-C poster could do it. They nerf LFR because the success rates are too low.

When you have a group of 25 unrelated people with only chat for communication, none of whom have any guaranteed experience, that's a different group of people than 25 friends or guildies headed into a raid together.

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It's not that they can't adapt, it's that most of them don't care.

You don't know that. And as far as my imagination goes, people who don't care probably wouldn't hang out for 2 hours and 10+ wipes just to finish one wing of LFR.

People who don't care would probably do something less stressful.

[Zantos]

You don't know that. And as far as my imagination goes, people who don't care probably wouldn't hang out for 2 hours and 10+ wipes just to finish one wing of LFR.

People who don't care would probably do something less stressful.

If they are afk they will. Not to hard to put someone on auto follow and do something else for that entire time.

[Treeba]

You don't know that. And as far as my imagination goes, people who don't care probably wouldn't hang out for 2 hours and 10+ wipes just to finish one wing of LFR.

People who don't care would probably do something less stressful.

I'm not saying they have no interest in it. It's that they aren't concerned with how much dps or healing they are doing. Either because they just aren't interested in maximizing their performance or they just don't know how and can't be bothered to look it up. Some will accept help and others just want to continue doing their thing.

I do A LOT of LFR and I've run into all kinds of players. Some of them do try, but just aren't very good. Some of them want to get better and some of them just don't care how good or bad they are. They know sooner or later they'll kill the boss and get their loot. Most people go into LFR under the impression that, "it's LFR and I don't need to try." If it wasn't for the 30+ min queue for dps many of them probably would leave a lot sooner.

If they are afk they will. Not to hard to put someone on auto follow and do something else for that entire time.

I'm not even talking about the bots or afkers here. There are a considerable number of people in LFR who are actually there and playing. They just aren't interested in their performance or aren't aware they are doing very poorly. The problem isn't when you get a group that has enough good players to carry the bads. It's when there aren't enough or the mechanics made it hard/impossible to do so.

LFR serves a great purpose. It's a very lazy way for EVERYONE to see content and get some loot. We just shouldn't be expecting it to be a legitimate form of raiding in the sense of achievements and progression. Flex can fill that void for those of us who no longer want to be bothered with a schedule or a guild.

[Normie]

If they are afk they will. Not to hard to put someone on auto follow and do something else for that entire time.

That will tend to get you kicked fairly promptly.

[Sierra85]

That will tend to get you kicked fairly promptly.

just occasionally say something supportive in /instance and /say

people seem to be nice enough to not vote kick a name that they have seen is nice and constructive.

[Normie]

I'm not saying they have no interest in it. It's that they aren't concerned with how much dps or healing they are doing.

So, let me ask you: Why should someone in an immersive role playing game be concerned with how much "dps or healing they are doing"?

Does the Blizzard UI have a DPS or HPS meter?

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just occasionally say something supportive in /instance and /say

people seem to be nice enough to not vote kick a name that they have seen is nice and constructive.

I wouldn't kick someone who was doing 0 DPS or 0 HPS who was being nice, if we weren't wiping due to lack of DPS or HPS.

But "not caring" is not the same as "occasionally saying something supportive."

[Ragashii]

I'm glad they nerfed LFR. I hope they nerf it even more too. They need to nerf it more if LFR is supposed to be "something you can do on your lunchbreak". There's nothing fun about wiping multiple times to something that is supposed to be "easy". All it takes is one wipe and everyone scatters like roaches and groups fall apart. Why don't LFR groups have that 15% buff you get for doing instances right away?

[Treeba]

So, let me ask you: Why should someone in an immersive role playing game be concerned with how much "dps or healing they are doing"?

Does the Blizzard UI have a DPS or HPS meter?

You're in a group setting in LFR. While it's pretty anti-social and uncoordinated there is some still expectation that you'll make some contribution to the group.

I'm not saying LFR needs to be hard to force them to play better or become better players overall. I'm saying LFR needs to be tuned with the fact that a considerable portion of the group might not care about their performance. They might not know the mechanics and die in fire, they might not care how much healing or dps they are contributing. They might just be there to see what the bosses are like or to get a few items for their character. If they aren't interested in doing "max deeps" that's perfectly fine. Blizzard just needs to tune LFR accordingly. Which seems to be what they are doing with these nerfs.

I'm fine with that.

[Deleted]

Such is the way it goes when you have complete anonymity and guaranteed chance to find a group no matter how badly you perform, people don't even try to accomplish anything and expect to be carried through everything because "they have more important things to do than play a game".

I find it amusing how well received flex is and how disliked LFR is in general, considering just how much people love to defend LFD, when it's the exact same thing there, just less noticeable because the group is 1/5 of the size.

[Glorious Leader]

Such is the way it goes when you have complete anonymity and guaranteed chance to find a group no matter how badly you perform, people don't even try to accomplish anything and expect to be carried through everything because "they have more important things to do than play a game".

I find it amusing how well received flex is and how disliked LFR is in general, considering just how much people love to defend LFD, when it's the exact same thing there, just less noticeable because the group is 1/5 of the size.

It's not quite the exact same thing. For one thing the consequence of you leaving your lfd group is you find another one. Your lfr group is another hour in que. Your looking for dungeon group probably often had more success to and your ability to impact the boss fight is far greater then it is in lfr where your basically at the mercy of everyone else.

[Deleted]

I'm glad they nerfed LFR. I hope they nerf it even more too. They need to nerf it more if LFR is supposed to be "something you can do on your lunchbreak". There's nothing fun about wiping multiple times to something that is supposed to be "easy". All it takes is one wipe and everyone scatters like roaches and groups fall apart. Why don't LFR groups have that 15% buff you get for doing instances right away?

Better yet, why does the bosses even have any health? They should just fall over by looking at them right?

[Flutterguy]

Guess this is gonna taint all those realm first LFR contests.

[Deleted]

It's not quite the exact same thing. For one thing the consequence of you leaving your lfd group is you find another one. Your lfr group is another hour in que. Your looking for dungeon group probably often had more success to and your ability to impact the boss fight is far greater then it is in lfr where your basically at the mercy of everyone else.

That's only because LFR requires a lot more people to create the group, thus all individuals have far less impact on it in overall.

[taishar68]

Nerf it all you want, it's not going to teach players the core fundamentals of raiding or having to actually... God forbid, learn strategy to earn potential loot. I thought that an MMO revolved around hard work, grinding and team work.. apparently Blizzard is trying to re-invent what a MMO means. Oh well, I just enjoy seeing news like this as I occasionally check on MMO-C and Blizzard to see what the latest news is... I'm just waiting for more expansion information to determine whether I'll start a new account or not.

Why is it so hard to understand that there is a tier of raiding that is not meant to teach, or to have anyone improve, but simply to experience? Why does this bother anyone with a lick of common sense.

LFR does not provide the challenge needed to improve as a raider, granted. It does not need to do so; people who run LFR and only LFR either can't or won't progress further, and this affects no one anywhere that raids in a higher difficulty.

Blizzard did not expect Raid finder to be a teaching tool, that is what PG's are for.

[Glorious Leader]

That's only because LFR requires a lot more people to create the group, thus all individuals have far less impact on it in overall.

Yes so it's not lfd in other words. Congratulations. You've discovered the difference and why the comparison you made is so shitty.

[Zantos]

That will tend to get you kicked fairly promptly.

The last time I called out my ot for doing that I got kicked. Its really hard to get anyone kicked in lfr who is afk unless they do something that causes a wipe. IE pulls trash with the boss or the boss to early (a dps). Usually sitting there afk won't get you even noticed enough to be kicked.

[Deleted]

Yes so it's not lfd in other words. Congratulations. You've discovered the difference and why the comparison you made is so shitty.

It really isn't, they have the exact same problem:

Guaranteed chance of finding a group no matter how badly you perform + complete anonymity = the content has to be so ridiculously easy that there is next to no chance at failing.

[Zantos]

So, let me ask you: Why should someone in an immersive role playing game be concerned with how much "dps or healing they are doing"?

Does the Blizzard UI have a DPS or HPS meter?

Because without enough dps or healing, the bosses wont die. No matter how immersive the game is, that is a fact.

I wouldn't kick someone who was doing 0 DPS or 0 HPS who was being nice, if we weren't wiping due to lack of DPS or HPS.

But "not caring" is not the same as "occasionally saying something supportive."

This proves my point. You are the type of person that does not care if the afker is not contributing. Saying something supportive while not actively helping to kill the boss is the same as not caring. Not hard to randomly say something.