November 4 - Even More LFR Nerfs

[maulgryve]

I'm just waiting for more expansion information to determine whether I'll start a new account or not.

Why would a new expansion make you create a -new- account?

[Socialhealer]

i now have to laugh 10% harder when people apply to a 11/14 guild with logs from LFR might as well show logs from a target dummy.

[llewllew]

There's no solution because there's no problem. People who do LFR largely don't do other raids. If the "problem" is the hurt pride of faux hardcores, then the solution is ignoring them.

[lawow74]

Said it before, I'll say it again: LFR needs to just become a 25-man scenario version of the raid. No tanks, no heals, all DPS. Much shorter queue times, the illusion of giving people a 'real' raiding experience is dispelled, Flex becomes the easy raid mode, scaling up from there. Everybody wins, IMO.

[rated]

LFR is just a flawed concept that's never going to get better. Putting random people in random groups just does not really work, especially when the content being ran is perceived to be a joke and not worth giving full attention to. Blizzard caters to this type of bad behavior by nerfing already dumbed down content even more which only teaches these same idiots to even be more bad and to not care even more.

[HeedmySpeed]

LFR wasn't meant to teach anything, I mean really, anyone who actually believed LFR was a stepping stone to raiding is in complete denial. There's not suppose to be a skill curve because that puts people off. The only reason these encounters even require a third of your DPS to be conscience is to make you do something, for healers to heal and tanks to tank.

If it wasn't for healers then you'd probably have a 0% mortality rate in these instances.

Still convinced LFR is just seen as a loot dispenser for most people and everything else is just a huge nuisance.

[Raelbo]

@KBWarriors:

Try empathising with other players. In other words try to imagine how they perceive the game and their experience it. That does not mean try to imagine how YOU feel when doing the content they seem to enjoy. Maybe it will help you to understand things a bit better.

PS: Not everyone thinks the same. This is something you need to understand.

@Raelbo

Your entire response basically just said that players shouldn't have to work to achieve a common goal or potential loot.

Not exactly. Not even close really. I said not every player should have to work hard to achieve some degree of fun.

I am so tired of that "the intended audience of LFR doesn't want to try, participate or get better at their class."

And I am tired of self important players who think way too much of themselves demanding that everyone play the game their way.

THEN WHY DO THEY DESERVE LOOT!?

Is the loot the same as Heroic Warforged loot? No, it isn't. It is a whopping 44 ilevels lower (probably less than 50% of the dps potential). Is the loot the same as Normal Mode? No it isn't. It is 25 ilevels lower (which is about 30% less dps). Even Flex Gear is significantly more potent.

STOP MAKING STRAWMAN ARGUMENTS ABOUT NEEDING TO WORK HARD FOR LFR LOOT!

$15 a month entitles you to access to the game, that's it.

And for the $15 a player can reasonably expect to have a bit of fun while playing. Or they will stop.

Furthermore, how is that "casual content for all" method working out for them? Unless they straighten their crap up, WoW will be down to 4-5 million people by halfway through the next expansion in my opinion.

And without the "casual content for all" WoW might already be down to 2 Million subscribers. The fact is all you can see is a correlation between declining subs numbers and the rise of LFR, but you have no way to assess the causality, and to be perfectly blunt about it, I doubt that LFR is the cause of the declining sub numbers. A far more reasonable assumption is that LFR is Blizzard's response to try and do what it can to slow the inevitable subs loss that the game will experience as it ages.

Stop the blatant hand holding and stop nerfing things just because people are lazy.

It's a game. It's not a job. Some people want hand holding. Others don't. Stop trying to dictate to everyone who doesn't share your view how they should play their game.

Honestly, who would want to tank LFR?

Obviously there are people who find the idea fun. Others might want some legendary items. Others might want to practice tanking. Others might want some easy VP. Or it could be a combination of any/all of the above.

There's no punishment for people who refuse to raid or play the game.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Have you actually stopped and read what you wrote and thought about it? Maybe you want the game to punish you. That's fine. But it isn't normal (ie what the majority of people want).

Then, you have the argument that people only have 1-2 hours a week to spend on a video game from some people. Out of curiosity, if someone is that pressed for time and has that little time to themselves as freetime, why in the world do they play? There are far better things to do with only 1 hour of free time if that's all you truly have.

Evidently they have fun.

Also, did you honestly just tell me that an MMO isn't built off of grinding and team work?

Did you honestly read my comment and honestly attempt to comprehend it? What I just told you was that grinding and team work is part of an MMO, but not the entirety thereof.

In my opinion, take this game back to BC, tell the casuals tough shit if they don't want to properly learn their class and mechanics and let it be done.

And I am very glad Blizzard don't take your advice, because I for one want this game to survive....

[Orcindauh]

Blizzard must be pretty ashamed of these nerfs to not give out a rough percentage of how much was nerfed.

Either that or the nerfs are so small it won't be noticeable.

[khalltusk]

It's interesting that only 5% of players have downed Garrosh on any difficulty level, even LFR.

This tier is rapidly turning into a disaster for Blizzard. I hope they don't announce at Blizzcon that the next expansion is six months away -- they can't wait that long.

So we're barely a couple of weeks into Garrosh and your'e wondering why the kill rate is low? ¬_¬ get out of here and come back after its been out a couple of months.

[Nexsa]

It's LFR, who cares if they make it easier? The ilvl isn't really that high for the gear. Running Flex and up gives better gear, plus with Flex and up you can run with people you know or people who pull their weight and know their roles. LFR is just a stress fest when you're up to 5+ stacks.

To the people who complain, if you're better then LFR, raid Flex or up, if not enjoy not having to wipe a ton of times. I can't count how many times I see people just standing back or auto attacking on a boss in LFR.

[Deleted]

Tell that to the stressed out average and good players trying to gear up alts that sit for hours hitting 4 - 10 stacks on bosses because people can't seem to adapt to the mechanics.

And this is the issue. It's not that people "can't adapt to the mechanics" but... they don't want to. They don't even try. And yet Blizzard has decided to cater to them even if they show no will to improve and they show they don't even really care about the game and will leave it after they've done the raids in LFR a few times. Horribly business model, but that's only my opinion of course.

[Daffan]

Tell that to the stressed out average and good players trying to gear up alts that sit for hours hitting 4 - 10 stacks on bosses because people can't seem to adapt to the mechanics.

dumb that is required to run LFR imo

[Robert3620]

People seem to forget this but lfr is done by more players then all the other modes combined. So who are they catering to? They are catering to the majority of their players and the idea of telling them to just get better is absurd. The entire problem is and has been for a while that raiding is the entire end game. Not having other options and leaving it as the single option leads to players that should not and maybe even do not want to be raiding to be raiding. Blizzard needs to expand it's ideas and provide more content for players that want to do other things and provide a out for lfr that works.

[McNeil]

All those big nerfs seem a little unnecessary, all the fights were already incredibly easy, even for LFR. Is it really that bad to whipe atleast once or twice in a wing? Especially the later ones?

[Osmeric]

The difficulty comes from encounter mechanics, and exactly how things should be.

Pompous pronouncements of how things "should" be don't matter much at all. The current design is failing, in execution, to retain interest in the raiding content, independent of your normative biases.

- - - Updated - - -

And this is the issue. It's not that people "can't adapt to the mechanics" but... they don't want to. They don't even try. And yet Blizzard has decided to cater to them even if they show no will to improve and they show they don't even really care about the game and will leave it after they've done the raids in LFR a few times. Horribly business model, but that's only my opinion of course.

Blizzard seems to want to make complicated, mechanic-filled fights, with the idea that this would engage and interest their customers. And this just isn't true. Blizzard has assumed the lesser players wanted the same thing the organized higher end raiders did, just in a detuned form, and that isn't working at all.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Pompous pronouncements of how things "should" be don't matter much at all. The current design is failing, in execution, to retain interest in the raiding content, independent of your normative biases.

He's not wrong though. Difficulty may be relative to the user but it doesn't mean he is wrong.

Blizzard seems to want to make complicated, mechanic-filled fights, with the idea that this would engage and interest their customers. And this just isn't true. Blizzard has assumed the lesser players wanted the same thing the organized higher end raiders did, just in a detuned form, and that isn't working at all.

That doesn't explain people leaving LFR and doing Flex mode.

[Osmeric]

He's not wrong though. Difficulty may be relative to the user but it doesn't mean he is wrong.

His statement was not even wrong, it was meaningless and irrelevant.

That doesn't explain people leaving LFR and doing Flex mode.

Flex mode is, in practice, easier than LFR right now.

[mannenabo]

november the 4th?

Not anymore.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

His statement was not even wrong, it was meaningless and irrelevant.

I'd say it's exactly relevant. Some people in LFR just are that bad and can't even try to be good. Yeah making it super hard or like normal would be bad yes but it doesn't mean LFR is failing necessarily. I haven't even seen such a thought.

Flex mode is, in practice, easier than LFR right now.

I want what you're smoking. Heisenburg Meth is it?

[l33t]

I want what you're smoking. Heisenburg Meth is it?

Flex actually IS easier than LFR, because you can create a moron-free group, which is plain impossible in LFR.