To Alliance players : Will you get upset if...

[Lins]

Stormwind was recognized as an Alliance kingdom despite being destroyed and king Terenas himself invited the then young Varian to Lordaeron. Even if you somehow argue that Stormwind was technically not part of the old alliance because Varian was not of age to sign a treaty we still have the dwarves of Khaz Modan who were members of that alliance. Plus I really doubt that when Alleria returns she will start thinking about it that way, she will not care about semantics and technicalities. All that she will see is a horde with the orcs that she hates and blood elves who are probably led by the people that she disregarded when they told her to NOT help the Alliance. She will also be disappointed in the behavior of her undead sister who thinks that raising the dead as forsaken is right. When she looks at the Alliance she will see her people, the high elves, who are unaffected by demonic taint, her living sister Vereesa and the people of her husband.

Tell me who would you choose?
An undead sister that committed atrocious crimes or a living sister?
A portion of your people that succumbed to demonic taint and allied with some of your worst enemies or a portion of your people that resisted and are in the faction that your husband supports?

And are some people really arguing that she was a friend to Lor'themar? Even if she used to be it doesn't matter, she hasn't seen him in years but she has certainly been through a lot with her husband all this time.
There is no way that she would choose a crazy undead sister and a "friend" over a living sister and her husband and that is obvious even if you ignore the fact that they are allied with the orcs.

However, I can totally see Alleria trying to "help" her sister, that much is reasonable and expected but this shouldn't make her a friend to the orcs:P

And trolls, and goblins.

[Deleted]

Seriously, who cares about what side or what they are doin?
As long as the story is good and it stays true to the lore, aint that what everybody wants?

[Benomatic]

1.furious
2.annoyed
3.angry
4.annoyed

[Serenais]

wowpedia.org/Alliance_of_Lordaeron I mean lore-wise, thats article fully created by players. I never heard about 2 different Alliances in lore.

"Anduin Lothar was both a supreme commander of Alliance forces and the Regent of the Kingdom of Stormwind, however, that at best implies some sort of weird personal union. He did convince others to ally themselves against the orcs, however, he never did come under the command of either of them, which, yet again, doesn't imply membership."

And he shouldn't because he was leader of Alliance and Therenas became only after his death. Or that's sounds just ridiculous, they can't give rights to lead a union to someone who doesn't belongs there. Alliance started as war coalition and the fact that Stormwind troops participated in second war mean that they are part of it


"Varian Wrynn, who was the sovereign of Stormwind back then (as recognised by the kings of the Alliance kingdoms), is nowhere mentioned to have ever agree or have his kingdom enter membership of the Alliance."

Because he was child and Lothar regent, yes

"That, and if Kingdom of Stormwind was also a member of the Alliance of Lordaeron, then we come to a rather BIG problem - it starts to give credibility to the Alliance claim to Lordaeron, and I probably do not have to state what that would imply."

I don't see BIG problem here, Stormwind already have right (as they think) to claim Lordaeron just because of refugees from there and they don't care about Forsaken because they don't actually you know, live there. Same for Forsaken who don't care about Alliance claims and belive themselves as rightful owners of Lordaeron, and thats why we have war. And credibility before what authorities? There are no United Nations of Azeroth, Amani have rights to Quel'Thalas but no one cares, because there is only right of the strongest.

Well, participating in military operations implies alliance (notice the non-capital "a"), only a treaty can make a kingdom enter a "international" organisation, such as the Alliance. Mind you, I will cease all I say about the whole "dubious membership" the moment a direct mention appears anywhere in game or the books, because what resulted in my approach is very likely a writer oversight.
As for authorities, well. Sure, no United Nations, in fact, the "current" Alliance is probably the closest to it (it doesn't have an absolute ruler, unlike the Horde with it warchief, which kind of makes it a "United Nations" analogy, and Alliance also isn't just a military pact like NATO is, due to all the diplomacy involved in keeping the Alliance working as is). However, any "legal" pretense (kind of rises the question "legal under which legal system") makes a claim valid - claim by strength is usually shallow and often results in armed resistance of the residents.
Also, sure, the Forsaken do not live there, but they do inhabit the area. The real question is about them is whether they can be considered, well, ... I think my English lacks the proper term. The closest would be "people". They have the problem that they all already died (and were not ressurected), thus the Alliance is quite correct in not giving them any rights per any legal system they recognise. On the other hand, the Forsaken are quite adamant in providing resistance to any claims besides their own, so... Whether they live there is somewhat a moot question. They resist, that's important. And they will likely provide more of said resistance, likely even provide a direct threat to anyone who will provide a counter-claim, as they've shown in the past. That is the problem.

Stormwind was recognized as an Alliance kingdom despite being destroyed and king Terenas himself invited the then young Varian to Lordaeron. Even if you somehow argue that Stormwind was technically not part of the old alliance because Varian was not of age to sign a treaty we still have the dwarves of Khaz Modan who were members of that alliance. Plus I really doubt that when Alleria returns she will start thinking about it that way, she will not care about semantics and technicalities. All that she will see is a horde with the orcs that she hates and blood elves who are probably led by the people that she disregarded when they told her to NOT help the Alliance. She will also be disappointed in the behavior of her undead sister who thinks that raising the dead as forsaken is right. When she looks at the Alliance she will see her people, the high elves, who are unaffected by demonic taint, her living sister Vereesa and the people of her husband.

Tell me who would you choose?
An undead sister that committed atrocious crimes or a living sister?
A portion of your people that succumbed to demonic taint and allied with some of your worst enemies or a portion of your people that resisted and are in the faction that your husband supports?

And are some people really arguing that she was a friend to Lor'themar? Even if she used to be it doesn't matter, she hasn't seen him in years but she has certainly been through a lot with her husband all this time.
There is no way that she would choose a crazy undead sister and a "friend" over a living sister and her husband and that is obvious even if you ignore the fact that they are allied with the orcs.

However, I can totally see Alleria trying to "help" her sister, that much is reasonable and expected but this shouldn't make her a friend to the orcs :P

Oh, I am not using that argument to state that Alleria will go Horde, nowhere near. I REALLY hope she will be Alliance only, I just expect that Blizzard will retcon her around to being a Horde character. As a draenei player (Yeah, yeah, I know) I shouldn't really care much about retcons, but I would really hate that particular one. I am using the separate entities argument to show that there is simply no way Alliance as a whole could be made responsible for actions of Garithos until it itself agrees to. Also, I am not arguing against the Kingdom of Stormwind being an Alliance member - I am just saying that I nowhere do find anything that would outright state or definitelly imply that it was one. It's still just semantics in the Warcraft II era - they were definitelly allies. The place where it would have any sort of "legal" effect would be during "current" ingame times. It would make sense, however, I have seen many things in games and books that didn't hold up under scrutiny, and so I am trying to go with a minimalistic approach.
For the Alleria choosing a side issue, we do have a bit of problem with who actually made her sister the monstrosity she is now - not many people actually know that the Lich King who commanded Arthas back then was actually an orc (well, in spirit, anyway) at that point. She'll only know that a human killed her sister. On the other hand, there's still the orcs who killed Lirath, after they pillaged, burned and murdered throughout an entire continent. Recent events show that they may not have changed all that much. And her sister is, after all, now a monstrosity, and the "current" humans did go against that human who killed her in the first place, so... She will definitelly have a lot to think about, but I believe that logically, she would be less conflicted about being Alliance, even though grudgingly, than neutral or, Ceiling Cat forbid, going Horde.
As for helping her sister... I think she might give a try to "redeem" Sylvanas, but will end up horrified when she'll get just what Sylvanas did or was a part to. Sylvanas has gone off the deep end, and I believe Alleria will definitelly see that.

Mind you, there's still the option nobody considered, and that's Alleria going against everyone. After all, it's hard to find someone (in sense of nations) that she couldn't find as having harmed her familly, so she could want her pound of flesh from both the Horde AND the Alliance. That would however mean going against BOTH her sisters, and as I don't think she'd like that, she'll probably choose one of the sides. And for that, see above.


Whew, I seem to write a lot of stuff... I hope I didn't forget anything x)

[Destinas]

If one of these happen :


1) Turalyon and Alleria follow the path of Tirion/Rhonin, and become neutral to the Horde, for the greater good.
2) Turalyon is still Alliance but Alleria finds out about what happened to her kingdom and the Blood Elves, and decides to join Lor'themar.
3) We find out that one of them is dead, or dies in the process of the expansion.
4) They don't show up at all, for another expansion.

I honestly expect Alleria to become a Horde character. She was always dedicated to her people above all else, and wanted nothing more than to protect her land. This is a trait they carried to all the Windrunner sisters, but Alleria kind of started it. Vereesa has mostly taken her sister's personality, even marrying a human and having kids with said human, even though it's taboo and possibly dangerous. Since Sylvanas seems to be heading more and more toward becoming a villain, I'd expect Alleria to help the Blood Elves. She may have turned into a Blood Elf herself during her adventures to survive.

That said, I don't really care what happens to them. They haven't been around for a long time, and a ton of things have changed on Azeroth and Outland since we even last heard anything about Turalyon and Alleria. They would have to be extremely central characters of an expansion for me to feel like their input matters.

[Deleted]

Couldn't give crap about them.

[jjuice32]

To be honest I sort of expect Turalyon goes Neutral, but more Alliance/Neutral. Like non aggressive to Horde and everything. Kind of how Sunwalker Dezco is for Alliance.

Alleria better not be Neutral. She can put up with the Horde to a degree, but any form of Neutral will just piss me off.