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  1. #1801
    Don't ever set dates in your head unless they've come from things that people have actually told you or you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

  2. #1802
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Don't ever set dates in your head EVER
    Fix't that for you.

    Anyways, back to wands, wizards, and spellflinging...
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  3. #1803
    Can we please get back on discussing about Mages?

  4. #1804
    Chromatic bolt!


  5. #1805
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    Summoning Incantation - a summoning spell:
    • Rune of Power (Arcane) - instant, summon a rune of power at your feet, which will increase all damage dealt and reduce all damage taken by 20-30% for 15 sec while standing in it, 2-3 min cd.
    • Summon Phoenix (Fire) - instant, summons a phoenix, which flies forward and then back to the mage, damaging all enemies and energizing the mage, increasing all damage dealt by 15% for 10 sec, 30-40 sec cd.
    • Summon Water Elemental (Frost) - 1.5 sec cast, summon a permanent Water Elemental, 1.5 min cd (same as now).
    I think this type of tier works well and would make for a nice set of choices. RoP being a damage cooldown on a 2-3 minute cooldown would be satisfactory; You could be a bit more choosey on when you shackle yourself to a certain location. The idea for a Phoenix sounds cool to me and works for the class IMO. I'm especially all for the Water Elemental being optional for Frost. I've never understood why Mages use an Elemental in the first place. That should be strictly a Shaman type of pet.




    On the topic of Mage Bombs, I would like to see the design better tailored to each spec. Using bombs fills an important role rotationally for the class IMO. I'm beginning to strongly feel that they should be made baseline. And I'm not totally against light multi-dotting; I think it fills a void for Arcane. Here is an example of how I think each bomb should function for each spec:


    Nether Tempest (Arcane) --- No Cooldown (3 Target Limit) - Heavy Periodic Damage (Each tick deals 100% to 1 other target) - Arcane Charge rewarded for each application of NT - 1.0 sec global cooldown

    Living Bomb (Fire) --- 10 Sec Cooldown - Light Periodic Damage (Explodes after 5 seconds affecting 10 yard radius) - Can be spread up to 3 targets using Inferno Blast - Critical Strikes from the explosion component activates Hot Streak

    Frost Bomb (Frost) --- 12 Sec Cooldown - Medium Periodic Damage (Final tick explodes affecting 10 yard radius) - Each tick has a chance to proc Brain Freeze


    As you can see, the current mechanics of Living Bomb and Frost Bomb would be basically switched. This allows each bomb type to better compliment the current mechanics of each specific spec.
    Last edited by Clash the DK; 2014-03-20 at 01:29 AM.

  6. #1806
    High Overlord Huevos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clash1 View Post
    I think this type of tier works well and would make for a nice set of choices. RoP being a damage cooldown on a 2-3 minute cooldown would be satisfactory; You could be a bit more choosey on when you shackle yourself to a certain location. The idea for a Phoenix sounds cool to me and works for the class IMO. I'm especially all for the Water Elemental being optional for Frost. I've never understood why Mages use an Elemental in the first place. That should be strictly a Shaman type of pet.




    On the topic of Mage Bombs, I would like to see the design better tailored to each spec. Using bombs fills an important role rotationally for the class IMO. I'm beginning to strongly feel that they should be made baseline. And I'm not totally against light multi-dotting; I think it fills a void for Arcane. Here is an example of how I think each bomb should function for each spec:


    Nether Tempest (Arcane) --- No Cooldown (3 Target Limit) - Heavy Periodic Damage (Each tick deals 100% to 1 other target) - Arcane Charge rewarded for each application of NT - 1.0 sec global cooldown

    Living Bomb (Fire) --- 10 Sec Cooldown - Light Periodic Damage (Explodes after 5 seconds affecting 10 yard radius) - Can be spread up to 3 targets using Inferno Blast - Critical Strikes from the explosion component activates Hot Streak

    Frost Bomb (Frost) --- 12 Sec Cooldown - Medium Periodic Damage (Final tick explodes affecting 10 yard radius) - Each tick has a chance to proc Brain Freeze


    As you can see, the current mechanics of Living Bomb and Frost Bomb would be basically switched. This allows each bomb type to better compliment the current mechanics of each specific spec.
    I'd love to see the pet go away, or at least have the option to take it away. I think I'd miss Freeze, but I've never liked the idea that part of your damage it automatic, and high mastery Frost gets a pretty good chunk from the pet right now.

    Regarding the bombs, I don't think you'll see them be applicable to more than one target, from what I remember they already said Mage multi-dotting is gone.

    I'm also not sure how I feel about the bombs functioning as differently as they do now if you always have a certain bomb in each spec. I think they'll do something to make them work similarly for each spec, but it'd be incredibly frustrating to be stuck with a relatively shitty bomb just because you're in spec X.

  7. #1807
    Quote Originally Posted by Huevos View Post
    Regarding the bombs, I don't think you'll see them be applicable to more than one target, from what I remember they already said Mage multi-dotting is gone.

    I'm also not sure how I feel about the bombs functioning as differently as they do now if you always have a certain bomb in each spec. I think they'll do something to make them work similarly for each spec, but it'd be incredibly frustrating to be stuck with a relatively shitty bomb just because you're in spec X.
    In that scenario, I imagine that they would just balance the rest of the toolkits around the function of each spec's bomb. I already assume that certain AoE abilities will go back to being spec specific anyway. So there doesn't have to be a "shitty" bomb. Unless they leave the casting requirement for Frost Bomb, because that annoys me to no end. They should all be instant IMO.

    And while I understand that they are reacting to feedback regarding multi-dotting when they say that that will no longer be a thing for Mages. I can't help but partially disagree, because I think Arcane would play best with a Bomb that always activated Arcane Charges with a 3 target limit. That is interesting gameplay IMO. And Fire Mages spreading Living Bomb with Fireblast/Inferno Blast was also interesting. Unfortunately, that mechanic was lost due to the current design of having a tier full of Bomb choices. Hopefully that door opens back up with the incoming changes.
    Last edited by Clash the DK; 2014-03-20 at 07:30 AM.

  8. #1808
    Mage Bomb will almost certainly lose multidotting capabilities, which I support. At the same time reimplementing Living Bomb spreading is crucial imo - it was a really fun mechanic. Also with spec-specific bombs they'll be able to tie them in with respective spec's mechanics, unlike MoP, where only Frost had a synergy with bombs and Fire had but a useless boring restriction in Pyromaniac.

    As for Water Elemental, it seems logical to me to implement a way to either get rid of it or to make it into a talent choice. Warlocks and Hunters are pet classes, but they have (or will have in WoD) a way to play without pets. Mage historically isn't even a pet class. Sometimes I really wish Frost could be played without a permanent pet. I mean Water Elemental is fine in raids and dungeons, more or less ok in the world, but so frustrating in PVP. You basically have to babysit him or he'll despawn or will be out of range to cast Freeze. There's a glyph for him to follow you and cast on the move, but glyph slots are precious, so you're better off controlling him on your own. I hate pet micromanagement.
    Last edited by Nightfall; 2014-03-20 at 07:35 AM.

  9. #1809
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    I use autorun frequently, even in raids. Nameplates is a PVP thing. But yeah, you do have a point here. I should step over myself and utilize some of these keybinds. Especially if IF lives on for WoD. =)

    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


    Honestly, I expected to hear more details or even see the new talent trees 1-2 weeks ago.

    Here's an idea. I think it'll be nice to make lv75 talents into new rotational spell theme. So there could be a choice between:
    -Mage Bomb - a DoT, without multidotting capability (but maybe with Fireblast spreading, aoe, etc),
    -Chromatic Bolt - a single-target castable nuke with medium ~15 sec cd,
    -Summoning Incantation - lets the mage summon a spec-specific minion/ally/pet/entity.

    Mage Bomb - a current Mage lv75 talents merged into one and tweaked.
    • Nether Tempest for Arcane - one-target only dot, which rapidly damages the target and also adjacent enemies with missiles, depending on # of Arcane Charges (1 charge = 1 additional enemy damaged).
    • Living Bomb for Fire - one-target dot, which can be spread to 2 additional enemies with Fireblast, explodes every 12 sec (if constantly refreshed instead of letting it fall off)
    • Frost Bomb - one-target dot, instant, has only one tick after 3-4 sec, can be triggered prematurely with BFFFB (triggered elsewhere), which treats the explosion as triggered on frozen targets.


    Chromatic Bolt - a powerful 2.5 sec cast (pre-haste) spell, which deals SpellFrostFire damage, uninterruptible, knockbacks the enemy a medium distance and slows its movement speed by 40%, 15-20 sec cd.

    Summoning Incantation - a summoning spell:
    • Rune of Power (Arcane) - instant, summon a rune of power at your feet, which will increase all damage dealt and reduce all damage taken by 20-30% for 15 sec while standing in it, 2-3 min cd.
    • Summon Phoenix (Fire) - instant, summons a phoenix, which flies forward and then back to the mage, damaging all enemies and energizing the mage, increasing all damage dealt by 15% for 10 sec, 30-40 sec cd.
    • Summon Water Elemental (Frost) - 1.5 sec cast, summon a permanent Water Elemental, 1.5 min cd (same as now).
    Yes, please! Give us Al'ar to fire, I was truly expecting it to come to mages since Blizz said that the classes "learn" stuff from their enemies and giving us Al'ar would just be logical because, yeah kael' thas. I don't really care about the frost talents but I actually think it could be cool if the mage summons 2 or 3 water elementals instead of one (As a cooldown), that + 3 mirror images would look really sweet. Since I may play arcane I'll leave some input here aswell, the arcane cooldown looks really sweet aswell, Rune of Power as a dps CD and arcane orb would be really cool!

  10. #1810
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    [snip]As for Water Elemental, it seems logical to me to implement a way to either get rid of it or to make it into a talent choice. Warlocks and Hunters are pet classes, but they have (or will have in WoD) a way to play without pets. [snip.
    If I remember correctly, videos from the latest press events showed that the Lone Wolf Hunter talent had been removed, so they won't have a petless option, after all.
    Malon of <Omen> on Emerald Dream-EU. Mythic raider.
    Posting tips for raiding Mages as @ArcaneTactics.
    Author of Wowhead's official Mage, and Ranged DPS in HFC guides.

  11. #1811
    Quote Originally Posted by Chalybs View Post
    If I remember correctly, videos from the latest press events showed that the Lone Wolf Hunter talent had been removed, so they won't have a petless option, after all.
    That is actually incorrect. The hunter in the videos you speak of chose the Beastmastery specialisation, which is why you cannot see the Survival or Marksmanship versions of the "With or Without You" talent. The petless talent is still there for those specialisations.

  12. #1812
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    Chromatic bolt!

    YES! Give me an elementalist specc! Being a match of all speccs!

  13. #1813
    Dunno if we have a wishlist, but people are dreaming about Chromatic bolt... so, here we go, wall of text inc.

    My mage improvements.
    I realize some (most?) ideas are not original but still.
    Also, if they seem OP (durations, %, CD’s etc.), it can be worked. Anything can be balanced...

    General
    - Deep freeze is frost only;
    - Flame Strike is Fire only;
    - Arcane Explosion is arcane only;
    - Blizzard is Frost only;
    - Ice lance is Frost only;
    - Fire Blast removed;
    - Invisibility is now instant and 1.5 Min CD regardless of spec.

    Specs

    Arcane
    - Arcane power is redesigned to be on demand (think of Metamorphosis). Arcane power - you deal 20% more spell damage and damaging spells cost 20% more mana to cast. Instant. 10 seconds cooldown.
    - Presence of mind (new CD)– grants x Arcane Charges and 2 stacks of Arcane Missiles. 1 minute cooldown.

    Fire
    - Critical mass (passive) – increases your spell critical strike chance by 5% when you cast fire spells. Stacks up to 100% critical strike chance. Resets when you score a critical strike;
    - Flame Strike – Dot effect stacks.
    - Blastwave (Wrath version) - Added a knockback effect to the spell. Targets are now thrown between 10 and 15 yards away from the caster.
    - Inferno blast - Blasts the enemy for 572 to 677 (+ 60% of Spell power) Fire damage, and is guaranteed to critical strike. Upon impact, it spreads any Pyroblast, Ignite, and Combustion effects to up to 3 nearby enemy targets within 10 yards. Awards Pyroblast! if used on targets below 20% hp.

    Frost
    - Deep freeze - Stuns the target for 5 sec. Only usable on Frozen targets. If the target is permanently immune to stun effects, deals X damage and applies Deep Frozen effect. 30 seconds cooldown.
    Deep frozen – all your frost spells acts as if the target were frozen for 5 seconds.

    Talents
    L15 (Tier 1 - movement)
    - Presence of Mind replaced by Improved Blink.
    - Improved blink – Blink has 2 charges (glyph is removed)

    L30 (Tier 2 – defensive)
    - All tier is removed/changed;
    - Mage Barrier – grants a shield based on spec;
    Arcane – temporal shield – current spell;
    Fire – Flameglow – current passive effect.
    Frost – Ice barrier – current spell;

    - New talent – Spell Breaker – while active you take 30% less magical damage and you are immune to Silence, interrupts and spell lock effects for 15 seconds. 3 Min Cooldown.

    - New talent – Telekinesis shield – while active all melee attacks causes the attacker to be knocked back 10-15yd. Also reflects 30% of damage from direct spells and ranged attacks. Lasts 15 seconds. 3 Min Cooldown.

    L45 (tier 3 – control)
    - All tier is removed/changed;
    - Mass control – grants a mass crowd control spell based on spec.
    Arcane – Black Hole – creates a black hole around a target location (10yd). Slows movement speed by 70% up to 5 targets. Lasts 10 seconds. 1 min CD
    Fire - Flame wreath – creates a circle of fire around a target location (8-10yd) for 10 seconds. If anyone moves out, they takes up to 30% of their health as fire damage. Damage is limited by mage health pool (30% mahe HP pool). 1 Min CD
    Frost - Ring of frost – current effect. 1 min CD

    - Empowered nova – Replaces frost nova - Blasts enemies within 15 yds of the caster for x Frost damage, freezes them in place for up to 8 sec and slows them by 50% for 15 seconds. Damage caused may interrupt the effect. 20 seconds CD.

    - Slow - Reduces target's movement speed by 70%, and increases casting time by 50% (25% on player targets) for 15 sec. Slow can only affect one target at a time.

    L60 (tier 4 – self utility/oh shit)
    - Tier half changed.

    - Greater invisibility is now Improved invisibility.
    - Improved invisibility – Casting invisibility also removes ALL magical debuffs, poison and curses. Damage taken is reduced by 90% while invisible and for for 3 seconds after coming out of invisibility.

    - Cauterize - An attack which would otherwise kill you will instead bring you to 50% of your maximum health, and you will burn for 40% of your maximum health over the next 10 sec. Cauterize cannot occur more than once every 1 min.

    - Cold snap - When activated, this spell finishes the cooldown of your Ice Block, Frost Nova, and Cone of Cold spells, and heals you for 40% of your maximum health. Also clears Hypothermia. This spell is usable while stunned, frozen, incapacitated, feared or asleep, and is not on the global cooldown.

    L75 tier (tier 5 — playstile variety)

    - Mage Bomb – Bomb based on spec (“dot > nuke > proc mage”)
    Nether Tempest (Arcane) – current effect
    Living Bomb (Fire) – current effect
    Frost Bomb (frost)

    - Master of elements – you get access to spells from another specialization of your choice. Grants an additional effect based on spell cast ("different element nuke and proc weaving, maintenance buff mage")

    You get the following spells:
    Arcane:
    Arcane Blast.
    Arcane Missiles.
    Arcane Barrage.
    Arcane Explosion

    Fire
    Fireball
    Inferno Blast
    Pyroblast
    Flame strike

    Frost
    Frostbolt
    Ice lance
    Deep Freeze
    Blizzard

    Effects
    Casting Arcane Missiles also increases Pyroblast critical chance and critical damage bonus by 5% for 15 seconds and Ice Lance damage by 10% for 15 seconds.
    Casting Pyroblast also reduces mana cost of Arcane Blast by 70% for 10 seconds and increases Ice Lance Damage by 10% for 15 seconds;
    Casting Ice Lance also increases Pyroblast critical chance and critical damage bonus by 5% for 15 seconds and reduces mana cost of Arcane Blast by 70% for 10 seconds.

    - Power Hungry – Teachs Consume Power and Unleash Power (procless -> brief god mode mage)
    - Consume power – consumes all stacks of Pyroblast!, Arcane Missiles and Fingers of frost to get stacks of Empowering effect. Consuming Pyroblast! gives two stacks, Arcane Missiles 1 stack and Fingers of frost 1 stack.

    Empowering – you do 1% more damage per stack. Stacks up to 10 times.
    Unleash power (passive) – Consumes ten stacks of Empowering and improves a spell based on spec for 10 seconds.

    Arcane – Improved Arcane Missiles (replaces Arcane Missiles) - Launches five waves of Arcane Missiles at the enemy over 2 sec, causing 231 (+ 22.2% of Spell power) Arcane damage per wave. Generates an Arcane Charge.
    Arcane Missiles' damage is increased by 50% per Arcane Charge. Improved Arcane Missile can be cast anytime while unleash power is active.

    Improved Pyroblast (replaces pyroblast) – 2.0 seconds cast time. Hurls an immense fiery boulder that causes 1816 to 2305 (+ 198% of Spell power) Fire damage and an additional 2250 (+ 216% of Spell power) Fire damage over 18 sec. Dot effect can stack.

    Improved Ice Lance (replaces ice lance) – always deals 25% improved damage and acts as if your target were frozen.

    L90 tier (tier 6 — cooldown tier)

    - Rune of power – Places a Rune of Power on caster feat, which lasts for 15 seconds. While standing within 5 yds of your own Rune of Power, your spell damage is increased by 15% and you regen 2% of your health per second. 2 min CD.

    - Chromatic armor – combines Mage Armor, Molten Armor and Frost Armor effects for 30 seconds. 3 min CD.

    - Manastorm – creates a manastorm effect (10yd) on a target location for 8 seconds. Manastorm – deals an arcane explosion every 1 seconds, a flamestrike every 2 and a blizzard for 8 seconds. 1 min CD.
    Last edited by Fennixx; 2014-03-20 at 03:35 PM.

  14. #1814
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clash1 View Post
    I'm especially all for the Water Elemental being optional for Frost. I've never understood why Mages use an Elemental in the first place. That should be strictly a Shaman type of pet
    Quote Originally Posted by Huevos View Post
    I'd love to see the pet go away, or at least have the option to take it away. I think I'd miss Freeze, but I've never liked the idea that part of your damage it automatic, and high mastery Frost gets a pretty good chunk from the pet right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    As for Water Elemental, it seems logical to me to implement a way to either get rid of it or to make it into a talent choice. Warlocks and Hunters are pet classes, but they have (or will have in WoD) a way to play without pets. Mage historically isn't even a pet class. Sometimes I really wish Frost could be played without a permanent pet. I mean Water Elemental is fine in raids and dungeons, more or less ok in the world, but so frustrating in PVP. You basically have to babysit him or he'll despawn or will be out of range to cast Freeze. There's a glyph for him to follow you and cast on the move, but glyph slots are precious, so you're better off controlling him on your own. I hate pet micromanagement.
    Clash, Mages uses Water Elementals because Jaina (and the Archmage hero) were able to summon them as abilities in Warcraft 3. They were then introduced to the mage class in TBC. I still remember the threads requesting their addition in vanilla.

    My main beef with this desire for an 'option' on whether or not frost should have an elemental is just how redundant it is.

    If you don't want to have a Pet, then you shouldn't be playing frost. It is that simple. We have Fire and Arcane specs that are petless.

    Right now, in these days of increasing homogenization, the pet and all that goes with is (including micro-managing Freeze and it's positioning) is what defines Frost from Fire. You take away the pet, you simply want to fling blue fireballs.

    It's a vote for removing a portion of the 'feel' of the spec and a bit of it's character. It is proceeding towards blandness.

    And to accomplish this, a talent is needed. So for a petless frost, Frost has to give up a talent unique to it's grid that could go to something else. Or a major glyph slot.

    Now, Warlocks and Hunters have this option because the pet is a fundamental aspect of the class rather than a fundamental aspect of the spec. So it should be no surprise that they are given petless options.

    Your option to be petless already exists in game. It is not being Frost. I fail to see why a talent slot should be sacrificed to faciliaite this poorly thought out goal.

  15. #1815
    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    Clash, Mages uses Water Elementals because Jaina (and the Archmage hero) were able to summon them as abilities in Warcraft 3. They were then introduced to the mage class in TBC. I still remember the threads requesting their addition in vanilla.

    My main beef with this desire for an 'option' on whether or not frost should have an elemental is just how redundant it is.

    If you don't want to have a Pet, then you shouldn't be playing frost. It is that simple. We have Fire and Arcane specs that are petless.

    Right now, in these days of increasing homogenization, the pet and all that goes with is (including micro-managing Freeze and it's positioning) is what defines Frost from Fire. You take away the pet, you simply want to fling blue fireballs.

    It's a vote for removing a portion of the 'feel' of the spec and a bit of it's character. It is proceeding towards blandness.

    And to accomplish this, a talent is needed. So for a petless frost, Frost has to give up a talent unique to it's grid that could go to something else. Or a major glyph slot.

    Now, Warlocks and Hunters have this option because the pet is a fundamental aspect of the class rather than a fundamental aspect of the spec. So it should be no surprise that they are given petless options.

    Your option to be petless already exists in game. It is not being Frost. I fail to see why a talent slot should be sacrificed to faciliaite this poorly thought out goal.
    First, Water Elemental was introduced as a cooldown, not a permanent pet.
    Second, what you say basically is that you like Frost having a pet, so anyone disagreeing should shut up, just cause. "Blue fireballs", "bland" and so on are not actual arguments. Following your argumentation, one could say that if you want to play a fun engaging spec, that opportunity exists - don't play Mage. The proposition in question is that of making a pet optional, not getting rid of it, but still you go as far as to say that even reserving a talent slot for that is unacceptable. Why? Because that's not the option you personally want?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Fennixx, you have some mighty interesting concepts here. Many of them don't look like what Blizzard might implement, but are interesting nonetheless. I'd like to point out a couple of things:
    • It's more likely that Fireblast spell name stays and Inferno Blast goes.
    • Removing both Fireblast and Ice Lance from non-matching specs is not good for PVP, at least one of those should stay.
    • Arcane Explosion is something I'd personally leave available for all 3 specs - don't want to let go interrupting flag checks in BGs, destealthing and soloing stuff.
    • Spell Breaker is a nice concept, but the name sounds strange - there's a class of melee fighters in WoW which specializes on slaying mages called Spellbreaker.
    • Telekinesis is very OP, but fun as hell! =)
    • Master of Elements and Power Hungry are too complex for a mere talent. It'll be impossible to explain in a tooltip.

  16. #1816
    Quote Originally Posted by Fennixx View Post
    Dunno if we have a wishlist, but people are dreaming about Chromatic bolt... so, here we go, wall of text inc.
    I like all of it...Good job.

  17. #1817
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
    First, Water Elemental was introduced as a cooldown, not a permanent pet.
    Second, what you say basically is that you like Frost having a pet, so anyone disagreeing should shut up, just cause. "Blue fireballs", "bland" and so on are not actual arguments. Following your argumentation, one could say that if you want to play a fun engaging spec, that opportunity exists - don't play Mage. The proposition in question is that of making a pet optional, not getting rid of it, but still you go as far as to say that even reserving a talent slot for that is unacceptable. Why? Because that's not the option you personally want?
    At what point did I say anyone should 'shut up'? I didn't. I am stating MY opinion that a pet-less frost comes across as a contradiction, one that comes with too much of a sacrifice to facilitate in terms of spec feel and character. You are deliberately confusing me terming the notion of petless frost as daft, which it is, to me trying to get people to stop expressing their opinions. That's a poor retort.

    The feel of a spec is a genuine argument. Remove the pet, you cast frostbolt and wait for your procs. That is even more similar to fire than it is now. If anything Frost should be more, not less pet focused so that people understand what it is they are picking if they select the pet. That mini-talent squirt should be baseline in my opinion.

    Reserving a talent slot for removing the Water Elemental means giving up something that frost could otherwise have. If the other two specs get something impressive in that slot, and frost's is 'remove pet' then we have an issue. It's an entire talent designed to placate a small group who probably shouldn't be playing frost anyway as frost is now a pet spec and has been since 4.0.

    It is the equivalent of selecting Beastmaster Hunter in the expansion, and then complaining you cannot select lone wolf.

  18. #1818
    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post

    The feel of a spec is a genuine argument. Remove the pet, you cast frostbolt and wait for your procs. That is even more similar to fire than it is now. If anything Frost should be more, not less pet focused so that people understand what it is they are picking if they select the pet. That mini-talent squirt should be baseline in my opinion.
    How exactly does having a pet which just contributes passive damage and the same procs that FB does change the fact that we cast FB and wait for procs? >.>. Or alter how we "feel?" You hardly interact with him. I mean fuck, I straight up forget about him on most fights.

    It's not like you sit there watching him. You watch your feet and your surroundings. I purposely glyph him to be smaller so he takes up less eye space in the area I'm fighting in and I can better ignore him.

    That's not to say I don't like the Welly. But saying he adds anything to the was frost feels is pretty weak. He's a big passive damage / FoF / Icicle generator. All of those functions can be easily baked into our current spells and nobody would notice.
    Last edited by Frost1129; 2014-03-20 at 07:00 PM.

  19. #1819
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129 View Post
    How exactly does having a pet which just contributes passive damage and the same procs that FB does change the fact that we cast FB and wait for procs? >.>. Or alter how we "feel?" You hardly interact with him. I mean fuck, I straight up forget about him on most fights.

    It's not like you sit there watching him. You watch your feet and your surroundings. I purposely glyph him to be smaller so he takes up less eye space in the area I'm fighting in and I can better ignore him.

    That's not to say I don't like the Welly. But saying he adds anything to the was frost feels is pretty weak. He's a big passive damage / FoF / Icicle generator. All of those functions can be easily baked into our current spells and nobody would notice.
    Then if he is so limited, dedicating an entire talent to removing him is overkill.

    I still don't get why when we complain about how homogeneous our specs are on one hand we have players who would genuinely like to remove one of the big differentiating aspects of one of our specs and actively increase homogenization.

    Freeze alone is worth having the pet. Having a second source of damage, one that we can glyph for mobile damage dealing (which will hopefully be retained in cataclysm), is worth the pet. Squirt, however it works, will probably be even more worth the pet.

    The pet is the logical place to shift the trigger for Brain Freeze for Frost if it is removed from the level 75 tier.

    And yes, his functions could easily be baked into other spells. Which leads back to the homogenization argument.

    I simply don't agree an option for removing him is necessary when that option already exists because we have two non pet specs.

  20. #1820
    I don't care either way. I'm just saying he doesn't add anything to the way frost feels currently. That certainly could change.

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