6.0 Mage Speculation & Paranoia

[Kuni Zyrekai]

How exactly does having a pet which just contributes passive damage and the same procs that FB does change the fact that we cast FB and wait for procs? >.>. Or alter how we "feel?" You hardly interact with him. I mean fuck, I straight up forget about him on most fights.

Visuals are a large part of spec identity, which is sometimes called look and feel. The same could be said of Icicles, they could have just as easily went the easy path and made a flat +damage mastery but instead went with something visually cool; functionally they're just targeted Ignite. You could potentially prune a lot of spells by rolling their damage into others, but that doesn't usually make for compelling gameplay, and makes any given spec less interesting from a visual standpoint.

We'll be somewhat interacting with him in WoD. The new spell for him via minor talent means he's not going anywhere.

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Squirt, however it works, will probably be even more worth the pet.

Spell's not called Squirt, the elemental is.

The pet is the logical place to shift the trigger for Brain Freeze for Frost if it is removed from the level 75 tier.

Either that or multistrikes from the mage. Both would work quite well.

Don't bring the leveling argument into this, we already don't get BF until 75, no one cares.

[Aceveda]

Brain freeze should proc from frostbolt, nothing else.

I'd love to see frozen orb removed, and alter time not storing procs.

deepfreeze frost only, blastwave for fire. Blizzard, fire blast & ice lance is essential for all specs in pvp.

[Frost1129]

Visuals are a large part of spec identity, which is sometimes called look and feel. The same could be said of Icicles, they could have just as easily went the easy path and made a flat +damage mastery but instead went with something visually cool; functionally they're just targeted Ignite. You could potentially prune a lot of spells by rolling their damage into others, but that doesn't usually make for compelling gameplay, and makes any given spec less interesting from a visual standpoint.

We'll be somewhat interacting with him in WoD. The new spell for him via minor talent means he's not going anywhere.

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Spell's not called Squirt, the elemental is.



Either that or multistrikes from the mage. Both would work quite well.

Don't bring the leveling argument into this, we already don't get BF until 75, no one cares.

I may have been confusing function for form then. My opinion earlier probably falls better into the function category - How frost functions in a PvE environment. It's fast, and spammy. Welly (the proper name, none of this squirt nonsense) doesn't factor into that.

However, I see what you mean with "feel" being form. If we're talking about that, then I'd be pissed if they removed him. He's cute as fuck and goes great with the tainted elemental I keep around

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Welly (the proper name, none of this squirt nonsense) doesn't factor into that.

Entirely. But at the same time, there's not really all that much you could add to him to make him interactive from a function point of view. You either get another spell like we're getting, or you do something like a giant merge with your elemental cooldown. That might step on the toes of shaman's Ascendance, though. I wouldn't be adverse to the idea of such a thing, but it doesn't seem like something they'd really give us, unless they outright give us Archon. I'd be down with that, but I don't see it happening.

[Halanad]

The reason for the Water Elemental being something for mages was mentioned in "The Schools of Arcane - Conjuration".

Basically Summon Water Elemental is an advanced form of Conjure Water without the glass the water comes in.

Mages kept the spell because Water Elementals are friendly and helpful creatures to have around.

As for why frost has it, well Arcane Mages focus more on raw arcane energy and it would be plain silly for a FIRE Mage to own a WATER Elemental.

Frost got it since... well, what Frost Mage wouldn't want a sentient and obedient ball of water soaking everything to make it easier to freeze them?

Even the elemental changing from a cooldown to permanent it perfectly sensible since as we get stronger from expansion to expansion we can maintain his summon for longer and longer until it can be maintained indefinitely.

[Frost1129]

The reason . . . and longer until it can be maintained indefinitely.

Constructive: Re-read your post and add appropriate punctuation. It reads very poorly in its current form.

If you need a way to figure out if something reads well - type it out and read it to yourself out loud or to a mirror. If at any point you find yourself thinking "god that sounds bad", it probably isn't formatted well.

[voltaa]

Am I drunk, or did this hurt my brain to read?

If you are going to make a one sentence response please don't quote a massive wall of text, snip it. Also try to keep it constructive. Thanks ^_^

[Aeluron Lightsong]

What about Mirror Image. It doesn't seem to do much. In terms of Damage out put.

[Frost1129]

What about Mirror Image. It doesn't seem to do much. In terms of Damage out put.

Same situation as AT I think. Has some potentially cool utility applications which are overshadowed by the fact that it does damage.

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If you are going to make a one sentence response please don't quote a massive wall of text, snip it. Also try to keep it constructive. Thanks ^_^

Sorry. Edited.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I was thinking maybe make it just one Mirror image but copies what you do but that's too much like SEF(The monk version). Only thing I can think of is summon elemental based on spec but again like Shamans. Hard to make it unique and not homogenized. Know what I mean?

[Frost1129]

I was thinking maybe make it just one Mirror image but copies what you do but that's too much like SEF(The monk version). Only thing I can think of is summon elemental based on spec but again like Shamans. Hard to make it unique and not homogenized. Know what I mean?

Other classes have copied Mirror Images, not the other way around. If anything, they have diluted their identity by adopting a mage ability. They just need to remove damage from utility spells. If something can do damage, we will use it for damage, regardless of how little it does. If they ignore this, that is their fault.

[Nightfall]

At what point did I say anyone should 'shut up'? I didn't.

Reserving a talent slot for removing the Water Elemental means giving up something that frost could otherwise have. If the other two specs get something impressive in that slot, and frost's is 'remove pet' then we have an issue. It's an entire talent designed to placate a small group who probably shouldn't be playing frost anyway as frost is now a pet spec and has been since 4.0.

It is the equivalent of selecting Beastmaster Hunter in the expansion, and then complaining you cannot select lone wolf.

You didn't say these exact words, but it's how your POV can be rephrased. Think of it - you don't like the idea, you are against adding it even as an option, you somehow calculated that people who'd want such an option are a "small group", you even suggest those people should not play the spec. See the pattern? You don't like it and you think that different opinions are negligible and should be dismissed. In other words, if you don't like WE, then shoo, go away.

Plus, comparing Frost Mage to Beastmaster Hunter is a big stretch. BMs are focused on their pets, it's the main theme of a spec. Frost's theme is frost school spells and freezing/chilling mechanics. BM, a pet-centric spec, cannot function without a pet, while Water Elemental for Frost is just another spell in a spellbook, and a pretty boring one mechanics-wise.

[Polarthief]

What about Mirror Image. It doesn't seem to do much. In terms of Damage out put.

In many games, MIs do zero damage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Blademaster (from WC3) MI didn't do damage.

TBH, I'd like them to not do damage, but have some form of secondary function besides the Fade-like effect, giving me 3+ extra incoming hits, and pulling mobs I don't want them to pull.

[Akraen]

My dream for Mirror Images:

They look like they do exactly what you do. So if you run up and frost nova, so do they. If you're casting evocate, they appear to be doing that too-- but they aren't. I'd like them to do 0 damage, but provide a lot of confusing utility. And, I think while active, all damage dealt to you is split among the images.

I'd love to see the possibilities of having more images, or even a permanent image for Arcane that just mimics you but does nothing, maybe as a glyph. That'd be so fun.

[Obelisk Kai]

In many games, MIs do zero damage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Blademaster (from WC3) MI didn't do damage.

TBH, I'd like them to not do damage, but have some form of secondary function besides the Fade-like effect, giving me 3+ extra incoming hits, and pulling mobs I don't want them to pull.

My dream for Mirror Images:

They look like they do exactly what you do. So if you run up and frost nova, so do they. If you're casting evocate, they appear to be doing that too-- but they aren't. I'd like them to do 0 damage, but provide a lot of confusing utility. And, I think while active, all damage dealt to you is split among the images.

I'd love to see the possibilities of having more images, or even a permanent image for Arcane that just mimics you but does nothing, maybe as a glyph. That'd be so fun.

Thing is though, what does MI do right now? It's a threat and target drop, right? And the images supposedly do enough combined damage to be worth the button press. It's a pretty awesome spell, it looks good but if we are honest with ourselves it's role is pretty poorly defined.

A threat drop when we also have invisibility, a spell that is also really half a spell (Greater Invis is the REAL invisibility as far as I'm concerned. Talent this ability kids so it's actually useable), and a bit of damage but not enough to be viable. The target loss is the only real utility it has, but it's very limited in pvp and besides if the goal is to stop the target attacking you, greater invisibility is probably a better button to press.

In fact, I wonder if Mirror Image and base invisibility are individually so anemic is that despite their differences they are two abilities trying to accomplish the same thing, stop us from being hit.

Yes, it would be nice if we could devise a new utility function for Mirror Images but they are also trying to devise something for alter time. But I still want to plug my opinion.

1.) Greater Invisibility becomes baseline, I am not sure about the self-cleansing aspect but the spell with the short cooldown and temporary invulnerability, that replaces baseline invisibility and becomes our baseline survivability spell.

2.) The reworked alter time is placed where greater invis now. Maybe the self-cleansing aspect of current greater invisibility, which could be too powerful for a baseline spell, could be folded in here somehow.

3.) Mirror Images becomes a level 90 talent, a cooldown spell where you summon three images for x seconds that each deal a substantial amount of damage to your target. This would be balanced against the level 90 talent we suspect remains as a cooldown, Rune of Power. Mirror Images would be a fire and forget cooldown, but I believe it would have it's own drawbacks.

[Nightfall]

I think defensive Mirror Image talent is the best outcome for MI. All 3 specs already have a throughput cooldown, and Blizz wants to get rid of stuff that ends up in a macro.

Mirror Image's most useful application is soloing old content, which is a very narrow niche for a spell, but Mage is one of the worst classes at that, so removing it seems like a low blow. However as a talent it can become a lot more interesting.

1) The images may stand not right behind you as bodyguards, but position themselves (with a Blink perhaps) at a distance from one another. While they are active, the Mage could swap position with a random image by casting Mirror Image spell again. Fun and potentially useful in PVP, might need to be unable to body pull for PVE purpose.

2) The damage you receive may be split between images (or the mage and his images).

3) The mage might become invisible and his casts may appear as being cast by a random image.

4) The images may assist you in casting your spells, so that you cannot be interrupted while they are alive.

5) If a direct damage or CC ability is cast at the mage, it gets reflected at an image.

[LocNess]

My MI dream would be making it a 20 second CD where you can drop an MI anywhere in a 40 yard range and it will count as a player for soaking things such as puddles on bosses.

[Kapadons]

My MI dream would be all damage, no utility.

You cast MI and for 20 seconds you get a buff. Every time you cast a spell an image of yourself appears and casts the same spell for 10 seconds. It's a damage button and you get to have alot of fun going for a few images casting longer/stronger spells or alot of images casting quicker/weaker spells.

[Alias Node]

I always wanted mirror image for arcane to be more like a pet. It would copy all that you do, but for less damage while being controlable. Possible split a % damage taken between it to help pvp arc. However what i'd really want for it would it to have a cd that would swap locations between you and the image, while also swapping any current targets that may be targeting each, like a hunter's missdirect.

[MrExcelion]

Mirror Image's most useful application is soloing old content,

Also great for out in the world solo play in general if you have a bunch of mobs on you. We do have invis, but MI is for stuff I want to kill too, but you can certainly use it like a second invis if needed <3 MI